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Old 03-20-2012, 05:37 AM   #21
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

Well when I sell a boat or usually buy one it is bought as is and I fix what ever!You probably have a seal it price to begin with.either buy it or move on don't waste the sellers time and yours!
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:18 AM   #22
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

Wait till you get the survey.* Items that have already been identified don't count for us.

After we had the pre-purchase survey on Hobo we came up with a list of corrective items:* injectors needed to be serviced, valves adjusted, minor blisters at the water line, a water leak at one of the pilot house doors, a small section of the eyebrow needed to be replaced and some other things.* We went back to the seller and negotiated a $10,000 reduction.** We still send emails back and forth with the seller and we did this deal without any brokers.
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:54 AM   #23
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

The way I look at it is that you should not go back to the seller to negotiate things you could have or should have seen on your own prepurchase inspection, the one you based your offer on.

You should also not try to negotiate for little maintenance items like bilge pumps.

Pretty much everything you mentioned should have been discovered by you as part of a pre-purchase inspection.

The bottom paint condition could have been avoided with "when was the boat last bottom painted?" If over a year ago then expect to redo it.

Liferafts are not required on most recreational boats, and there's a tag on it.

Canvas, well that one is ovbious.

Interior leaks... That one you might have missed if they were not visible from the cabin. You might renegotiate for them since they can be hidden and expensive.

Boats are a constant maintenance cycle. As a buyer you need to be prepared to do some refit to any boat you buy. The larger the boat generally the more expensive the refit. Thats just boating.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:01 AM   #24
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

Quote:
Phil Fill wrote:Nsail wrote:
*
The deal on my new (to me) boat should close early next week. Engine survey has been done and the hull survey is scheduled for this Thursday. My broker says that after the surveys, we can ask for a price reduction based on any deficiencies, within reason.

So far the things I've noticed are -
  1. <li class="MsoNormal">the canvas needs replacing<li class="MsoNormal">at least one bilge pump is bad<li class="MsoNormal">3 minor leaks inside the cabin (not the hull), including one that is the brown juice type<li class="MsoNormal">Liferaft needs recertifying <li class="MsoNormal">May need bottom paint (we'll know Thursday)
I'm sure other things will pop up, but hopefully they'll be minor.

And, although I'm not paying the asking price (who is these days), I'm not getting a 25% discount either and don't want to accept "as is". *My problem is I don't know what would be considered reasonable and what would be considered nit-picky.

In your opinion, what general types of deficiencies are customary to either ask to be taken care of, or, ask for a price reduction on?

By the way, over the last 2 months, I've read almost every thread on this entire forum since it began and have gained not only a wealth of knowledge, but just as importantly, a tremendous amount of trust in opinions from all of you experienced boaters.

Thanks for all!
*The biggest concern I would have is the 3 minor interior water leaks as that can be structural and very expensive.* When you pull the boat for the out water if your going to buy have the bottom paint as the hull out and blocking is a large % of the cost.* The other stuff is your call and as far as I am concern general maintenance cost of owning a boat, bilge pump, canvas repair, bottom paint, life raft certification.

*I'm with Phil Fill on this is one. Virtually every item listed except the "minor" leaks can be estimated beforehand what their rough cost to fix will be. Minor leaks have a nasty habit of being anything but minor so I would really work the surveyor to make sure he/she gives you as accurate an assessment as they can in that area. That to me is definitely a negotiable/walk away item.

And has been suggested here, be sure you are with the hull surveyor throughout his/her poring over the boat. Ask what might seem like weird questions as they occur.

Also, don't ignore the domestic systems such as fridge, stove, etc. Their repairs can add up quickly as well.*
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:37 AM   #25
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

Could you give us an idea of the asking price of the boat? Ask your broker what Soldboats says the boat is fetching. A brown juice type of leak will probably have a soft deck between what you see and the sky. Have your surveyor start there before you haul. You may save yourself some money. The rest are maintenance items.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:52 AM   #26
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

"3 minor leaks inside the cabin (not the hull), including one that is the brown juice type"

I' be worried about this one.....Brown Juice isn't minor, other than that, I would look forward to fixing the rest myself.

E
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Old 03-20-2012, 05:54 PM   #27
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Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

Quote:
Baggiolini wrote:
"3 minor leaks inside the cabin (not the hull), including one that is the brown juice type"

I' be worried about this one.....Brown Juice isn't minor, other than that, I would look forward to fixing the rest myself.

E
Depending on the trawler...it's not the end of the world either.

If she has teak decks on the flybridge...there is a common source...so are the windows which are often easily caulked if not too far gone.

I just found out my flybridge core is a bunch of random teak blocks...many saturated but none rotten.


-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 20th of March 2012 05:54:43 PM
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:19 PM   #28
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

When I bought my boat, the surveyor recommended stripping and then repainting because there were many, many layers of paint. What I found after buying and stripping the bottom was thousands of small blisters that couldn't be detected through the layers of paint. The survey found some of the larger (quarter-sized) ones, but I thought I'd be able to fix them as there weren't too many of them.

If the paint is thin, I'd negotiate at least part of the cost of painting. If the paint is thick and peeling, and you find any blisters, you may want to have the surveyor take a closer look (i.e. chemically strip a few test spots).
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:00 PM   #29
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

certain items are required to be considered seaworthy/legal, I would highly recommend you ask seller fix those as part of the transaction.
Bottom paint and canvas - well that comes along with a used boat.
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:11 PM   #30
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Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

Quote:
bobc wrote:
When I bought my boat, the surveyor recommended stripping and then repainting because there were many, many layers of paint. What I found after buying and stripping the bottom was thousands of small blisters that couldn't be detected through the layers of paint. The survey found some of the larger (quarter-sized) ones, but I thought I'd be able to fix them as there weren't too many of them.

If the paint is thin, I'd negotiate at least part of the cost of painting. If the paint is thick and peeling, and you find any blisters, you may want to have the surveyor take a closer look (i.e. chemically strip a few test spots).
*And you might have a major case of hydrlolysis...that costs around $20,000 unless you do it yourself for around 2K...my surveyor never even picked it up...said some minor blistering but that was all.* In all fairness...NO surveyor can really tell unless you dry or strip ansd even core.* But he should have picked up the major delamination.


-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 20th of March 2012 07:12:21 PM
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:16 PM   #31
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Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

Quote:
Per wrote:
certain items are required to be considered seaworthy/legal, I would highly recommend you ask seller fix those as part of the transaction.
Bottom paint and canvas - well that comes along with a used boat.
*While "seaworthy/legal" requirements might hold water (no pun intended) for a stronger negotiating stance...they hold no power over the seller to fix...there is no requirement to disclose/fix like in real estate so I would negotiate big ticket items long before a measly bilge pump or expired flares or lack of life jackets...all those are pennies in the big scheme of things and can sour a deal over nothing.


-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 20th of March 2012 07:16:58 PM
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:59 AM   #32
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

Quote:
psneeld wrote:Per wrote:
certain items are required to be considered seaworthy/legal, I would highly recommend you ask seller fix those as part of the transaction.
Bottom paint and canvas - well that comes along with a used boat.
*While "seaworthy/legal" requirements might hold water (no pun intended) for a stronger negotiating stance...they hold no power over the seller to fix...there is no requirement to disclose/fix like in real estate so I would negotiate big ticket items long before a measly bilge pump or expired flares or lack of life jackets...all those are pennies in the big scheme of things and can sour a deal over nothing.



-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 20th of March 2012 07:16:58 PM

those "seaworthy" items can actually add up pretty quick, navigation lights, horn, radio/antennas, bilge pumps and not to forget the required engine alarm and fire extinguishing system. and how about the electric system and battery banks...
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:02 PM   #33
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

Quote:
Per wrote:psneeld wrote:Per wrote:
certain items are required to be considered seaworthy/legal, I would highly recommend you ask seller fix those as part of the transaction.
Bottom paint and canvas - well that comes along with a used boat.
*While "seaworthy/legal" requirements might hold water (no pun intended) for a stronger negotiating stance...they hold no power over the seller to fix...there is no requirement to disclose/fix like in real estate so I would negotiate big ticket items long before a measly bilge pump or expired flares or lack of life jackets...all those are pennies in the big scheme of things and can sour a deal over nothing.



-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 20th of March 2012 07:16:58 PM

those "seaworthy" items can actually add up pretty quick, navigation lights, horn, radio/antennas, bilge pumps and not to forget the required engine alarm and fire extinguishing system. and how about the electric system and battery banks...

*What "required" engine alarm and fire extinguishing system?

And like I said in my first post...without the asking, offering, and fair market/going prices....everyone is just throwing around ideas to negotiate*but it's all thin, hot air till those numbers are brought to light.
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:50 PM   #34
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

Am I right or wrong? What sea worthy items? I know of no such things that are (required) for a personal water craft to be bought or sold. If you offered an amount depending on survey and haul out and find nothing more than minor maintenance items ,then pull the trigger, if you love the boat, dont let a $30. bilge pump blow it for you. If you have ANY doubts , Wait,there are thousands for sale. BB
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:25 PM   #35
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

"I know of no such things that are (required) for a personal water craft to be bought or sold."

Didn't someone write not long ago that the wiring has to be labeled as "marine" wire?
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:54 PM   #36
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

Dis ol world now*gots toooo damnnn*many must beees, must haveees, and must dooos!* Shtt, its a getten ta be like a quizzz game on all fronts - That Includes Marine!!*

If ya gots a gooood head on ta*ya shoulders then operating in da boating world ain't Rocketttt Science!* Geeeezzzz - twixt CG regs, harbor regs, marine partol regs, police regs, state regs, county regs, city regs, town regs, municipality regs, ins regs and too many Admiral's regs... tiz enough to drive a good Capen cwazy!* Why I recall when there few if any regs and police boats were seldom if ever seen - inland waters LI, NY, that is, in da*1950's and 60's!

Best to stay low key these days and take of oneself's own*needs!

That be all I gots ta say!!

LMAO
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Old 03-21-2012, 06:42 PM   #37
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RE: Reasonable or Nit-Pickey?

lolz agree with you there Art, I think a lot of us boat people are somewhat free thinkers and dont care much for government how to run our business.
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