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Old 02-13-2015, 07:52 PM   #41
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A motor run on a regular basis is less likely to have major scale and deterioration of salt water cooling systems. A motor that is used occasionally and left with salt water in it will probably be more likely to have problems not all do so its a gamble, like all smokers do not get lung cancer its a numbers game called statistics until you are it. Not all motors have the same cooling systems so some are more susceptible than others. Its not my idea to tear down parts of a cooling system for a service it is something that comes from owners manuals on certain motors. That a particular engine can limp along for 15 years with a compromised cooling SX does not mean that everybody should disregard the issue, Joe at 95 years of age always smoking 2+ packs a day did not get cancer or other lung disease does this mean the risk of cancer should be ignored. You bet I have run into a lot of hard heads during some 40 years of dealing with issues like that and rarely was there ever enough proof. For the record I say engines exposed to salt water do not do as well as those run in fresh water and anything you can do to protect the engine from salt water internal or external exposure is to the good. When cruising in salt water and using engines on a daily basis I do not flush. When letting the engines sit for some time I flush. During off season I keep the boat in fresh water and run boat around the lake for one hour every week or two. Whoever buys my boats used is a lucky or smart guy.
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:03 PM   #42
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Greetings,
Mr. ps. Sounds like you need one of those magnetic oil filters as well...Oh, and the magnets that align your diesel molecules for a better burn.
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:12 PM   #43
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Greetings,
Mr. ps. Sounds like you need one of those magnetic oil filters as well...Oh, and the magnets that align your diesel molecules for a better burn.
I will do or buy almost anything that has a reasonable effect on longevity or reliability of my boat.

Just not a make work or waste money type guy.

Working in the marine trades exposes one to a lot of opinions and ideas....I try to learn the most useful and pass them along.

If freshwater flushing was such a great thing...why wouldn't at least one of the hundreds of commercial operators I know do it?

Charter guys with a hundred thousand dollars in engines don't do it...and they can't afford to miss a day fishing....you think if it were such a big deal, that only took a few minutes they wouldn't be all over it?

As I said...show me the money.

The constant bringing up of driving cars or flying airplanes or medical ideas related to boat issues can only mean that there isn't any or the poster does have anything that directly relates to the boat issue.
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:25 PM   #44
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I hear ya...
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Old 02-13-2015, 09:05 PM   #45
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A motor run on a regular basis is less likely to have major scale and deterioration of salt water cooling systems. A motor that is used occasionally and left with salt water in it will probably be more likely to have problems not all do so its a gamble, like all smokers do not get lung cancer its a numbers game called statistics until you are it. Not all motors have the same cooling systems so some are more susceptible than others. Its not my idea to tear down parts of a cooling system for a service it is something that comes from owners manuals on certain motors. That a particular engine can limp along for 15 years with a compromised cooling SX does not mean that everybody should disregard the issue, Joe at 95 years of age always smoking 2+ packs a day did not get cancer or other lung disease does this mean the risk of cancer should be ignored. You bet I have run into a lot of hard heads during some 40 years of dealing with issues like that and rarely was there ever enough proof. For the record I say engines exposed to salt water do not do as well as those run in fresh water and anything you can do to protect the engine from salt water internal or external exposure is to the good. When cruising in salt water and using engines on a daily basis I do not flush. When letting the engines sit for some time I flush. During off season I keep the boat in fresh water and run boat around the lake for one hour every week or two. Whoever buys my boats used is a lucky or smart guy.
Oy vey!
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Old 02-13-2015, 09:58 PM   #46
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The use of charter and commercial engines is different than many pleasure boats. The engines that are run thousands of hours in a year and are rebuilt or replaced in several years are in many ways different than the boat that sits at the dock idle most of the year. As for statistics and how they apply there is little difference in the concept of numbers if used in boats cars or the human machinery. Things that have variable affects manifest over a none uniform population are not always easy to quantitate, but that does not mean that the lessons learned should be disregarded. If some or many want to believe that salt water and salt air do not cause damage to their engines fine. I and others have reason to believe that the metal exterior and interior parts of an engine are better off if protected and the build up of the various salts(not all sodium chloride) and sludge that can negatively affect the raw water elements of the cooling Sx should be minimized or if possible avoided thus the flush. As I have stated before there are products made to clean out cooling systems and a good deal of this stuff is sold. If there is no problem I wonder why that is? If overheating of engines not all due to bad pumps is a common issue I wonder why? If you go to the Boatdiesiel site and research cleaning heat exchangers and look at some of the pictures of fouled exchangers maybe it will turn on a light bulb.
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Old 10-27-2015, 06:47 PM   #47
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In part humor, how about one large annually replaced but cheap heat exchanger for the raw raw side, then a closed circuit fresh water loop on the original raw side. But then if have to flush the raw raw side with fresh water... Maybe I'll just go air cooled.
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Old 10-27-2015, 07:04 PM   #48
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But a fresh water flush does not guarantee no fouling...prove it.

No one else has.....or really seems to care other than those selling the products and generating a market.

I am sure done a certain way it may help...what is that way? And can it be done easily?

Then I will bite......
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:58 PM   #49
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freshwater

I agree that a boat operating daily would not benefit from flushing ,but a boat setting in a slip for a period of time might. Here in ft. Lauderdale I get a freshwater flush as I go up river ,but when getting to my slip in marathon and planing on being there for some time ,I'll flush the engines,gen with fresh water. Start each month to check systems and I'll flush thru the adapter on the strainer. Takes 30 minutes and I feel good knowing that I've tried to do what I think is the best way to add a few more years to the equipment and if it makes you feel good do it, if not ,O'well. I've seen rusted,corroded, equipment,and just shake my head and think that the owner could of done SOMETHING, rather than NOTHING at all. Just my $.02.
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Old 10-28-2015, 10:48 AM   #50
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After 30 years of direct raw water cooled outboards and outdrives in saltwater I am delighted to have an engine that is fresh water cooled with dedicated copper heat exchangers. I'd spent so many hours at launch ramps flushing the salt of engines using the dang ear muffs. Finally I said I'm spending too much time at the ramp and not enough on the water so I bought a 78 Mainship that stays in the water. I had no idea that people would flush the raw circuit since its specifically designed to protect the engine from salt water. I worked five years on a rescue boat with twin Detroits and we would run fast but baby them with maintenance like early oil changes, filter swaps, impellor changes, zincs, wire-out the exchangers. But we never rinsed the raw water circuit.
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Old 10-28-2015, 12:51 PM   #51
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IMHO the desire to fresh water flush is dependent upon the engine, use and location. Our Perkins Sabre's have no zincs by design, HXs show no sign of scaling and we do not pull much more than 40% load routinely.
When goosed up to 80% load they do not overheat.


So, I see no reason to fresh water flush but:
  • if sea strainers and HXers showed signs of fouling routinely (warm water?)
  • or I needed to run at 70-80% load to achieve desired cruising results
  • or I had a salt water cooled exhaust manifold like a manifooler
  • had Al manifolds, or HXers
I would heartily do a fresh water flush.

So I am with RP and psneeld, not always necessary. BTW, how does a fresh water flush keep the sea strainers, and hull inlets from closing up?
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:08 PM   #52
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How should I do a blowby test? Is it just at idle or when the boost pressure kicks in?
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:18 PM   #53
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I'm fortunate that my home port is in the Fraser River. By the time I've tied up, the main is already flushed and in the fall,/winter, it will have a low suspended silt. I also flush the genny when I get home.


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Old 10-28-2015, 02:50 PM   #54
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How should I do a blowby test? Is it just at idle or when the boost pressure kicks in?
If you will PM me your email address, I will send you Cummins blowby testing procedure for 4BT, 6BT(A) and 8CT(A) engines with recommended new and worn limits. Perhaps you could adapt, extrapolate to your engine.

You usually test under load. If you have noticeable blowby at idle, you do not need to test, you are worn out.

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Old 10-29-2015, 11:38 AM   #55
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I'm assuming the breather line,which goes to turbo inlet, should be plugged, and I should use the dipstick tube. Or I could splice in a manometer to the breather line, but I'm not convinced the pressure in the head is the same as the pressure in the case.

I'd like to do it under load and I'm hoping somebody has the pressure specifications for the T6.354

Thanks,
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Old 03-19-2016, 02:20 AM   #56
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Sorry to bring up an old thread, but at least I searched.

Anyone ever use something like this for doing a fresh water flush?

Secondly, I know that some connect a dock hose to the system but I have heard that this can create problems. Seems safer to use non-pressurized water and let the water pump do its job?

You all have done a great job debating the pros and cons of doing it, I don't want to reawaken that debate.
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Old 03-19-2016, 08:20 AM   #57
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Sorry to bring up an old thread, but at least I searched.

Anyone ever use something like this for doing a fresh water flush?
I installed these Groco flush fittings on all of my raw water intakes but have not used them yet because we're still on the hard. I'll leave it to others to tell you how foolish I am.
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Old 03-19-2016, 10:48 AM   #58
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Generally speaking I can see no reason not to fresh water flush. The conductivity of seawater and the effect the salt ion has on metal is undeniable, it's why fresh water engine rooms often look like new after 20 years. Keep this in mind, however, for heat exchangers equipped with zinc anodes, when exposed to fresh water zinc anodes, all of them, develop a coating or scale that essentially puts them to sleep, they stop working. The coating can be removed using a stiff, non-metallic brush or Scotchbtite pad. Therefore, if you flush with fresh water and it remains in the heat exchange, the zinc anodes will not work as well, or at all thereafter, unless cleaned or replaced, which could be counterproductive.

The same is true for hull anodes, vessels that operate or are stored in fresh or brackish water will face the same issue. Zinc anodes are designed for salt water use only, magnesium anodes are designed for fresh water use only,. Aluminum anodes can be used in fresh, salt or brackish water. The only caveat, aluminum anodes tend to be more active, they develop a white froth on their surface that does not impede there effectiveness, however, where pencil anodes are concerned this material can make it difficult to remove them.
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Old 03-19-2016, 11:37 AM   #59
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Thanks Steve, You know more about diesel engines than I ever will.

So I will guess that your answer to;
"Anyone ever use something like this for doing a fresh water flush?" is No.

What about this question and possible hydrolock issues?
"Secondly, I know that some connect a dock hose to the system but I have heard that this can create problems. Seems safer to use non-pressurized water and let the water pump do its job?"
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Old 03-19-2016, 11:39 AM   #60
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...The same is true for hull anodes, vessels that operate or are stored in fresh or brackish water will face the same issue. Zinc anodes are designed for salt water use only, magnesium anodes are designed for fresh water use only,. Aluminum anodes can be used in fresh, salt or brackish water. The only caveat, aluminum anodes tend to be more active, they develop a white froth on their surface that does not impede there effectiveness, however, where pencil anodes are concerned this material can make it difficult to remove them.
We had this issue with the pencil zincs on our FL SP135 hear exchanger also. About 3 years ago we changed everything to Al anodes on Hobo. We have been buying the pencil anodes from Performance Metals. Their pencil anodes have a steel rod core which helps keep the anode together when we're replacing/checking them. We no longer break them off as we did with the zinc.
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