Rant on boats for sale

[sunchaser]

IMHO - Well put! Especially the ending!! Thanks! - Art

Quite honestly it seems to me that tire kicking lookers who have not their homework are more abundant than serious buyers. This then presents a dilemma for the broker and he can't always get it right. The listing brokers seem pretty good from my perspective in comparison to the lookers. I'm in Daddyo's corner.

 

[FF]

"if brokers only listed beautiful boats where would the fixer upper or low price buyer shop? "

Most brokers will avoid lower priced boats that need lots of TLC.

Esp a liveaboard "fixer up ER"

The no bucks Lookey Lous can eat weeks of time and effort on a $5,000 bucket.

Not worth the time to pick up the phone.

Craigs List, FL Mariner are a source , but for the best results spend tiny bucks and place a WANTED add in both FL Mariner and Boats and Harbors.

Any DIY boat yard may have some 1/2 finished boats.

Soundings is expensive and takes "forever" for your add to show up, but for an under $50K boat might be worth the few dollars.

Some brokers read lots of sources , so might give you a call.

Good Hunting , what are your Desirements?

 

[folivier]

Hey guys, it's called "sales". Just like every other type of sales whether it's cars, houses, tools, ice cream, not every one will buy something. Well, maybe except for the ice cream.. If a boat salesman can't handle this then maybe he's in the wrong profession? It takes a certain personality to do sales.
Someone like me will look at many boats before I decide which one I'll buy, if I actually do buy one. Isn't that what is generally recommended here? Look at as many as you can?
For a potential buyer such as me it is difficult to pin down an actual budget because depending on which type of boat, what size, and what condition it's in, my budget could be half or twice that amount.
So while right now I'm a "lookie lou" and want to see and walk on everything from sports fisherman's to motor yachts to trawlers if a broker "does me wrong" he definitely won't get my business. If I find one that I trust then I will make every effort to buy through him.

 

[Larry M]

Most brokers will avoid lower priced boats that need lots of TLC...

I can't blame them. You have a $25,000 boat for sale that needs a little work. The broker lists/markets, shows it, hand holds a few prospective buyers. Someone shows up with a buyers broker and the deals done. After the survey, sea trials and closing, the listing broker gets 5% of the sale before expenses/overhead. If the broker works for a brokerage firm he's giving up more. Nor much of a wage IMHO.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
EVERYONE in sales should read: https://books.google.ca/books/about/How_to_Sell_Anything_to_Anybody.html?id=LCwTFv5LdcUC

A synopsis is here: http://www.educationalservice.net/ebooks/ebooks-001/eseb20090503_HOW-TO-SELL%20.pdf

 

[MYTraveler]

99.99% of them have clauses that state if you change the boat you have to tell them, obviously so they can reconsider the boats value based on current equipment.

Ill also add that my own insurance company floored me with a letter stating that I should reconsider the amount I insured my rv and other boat for because their internal valuation was less than the policy was written for. I considered it kind of extraordinary of them to tell me I was throwing money at them for nothing.

If you had an agreed value policy, common for boats, their motivation may have been to diminish the "moral hazard" of you having an incentive for the boat to sink.

 

[Baker]

I can't blame them. You have a $25,000 boat for sale that needs a little work. The broker lists/markets, shows it, hand holds a few prospective buyers. Someone shows up with a buyers broker and the deals done. After the survey, sea trials and closing, the listing broker gets 5% of the sale before expenses/overhead. If the broker works for a brokerage firm he's giving up more. Nor much of a wage IMHO.

I agree with everything you said. There are brokerage houses that have a minimum commission....so it is not always 10%(5% if co-brokered).

My boating career has spanned 22 years and 6 boats. Most of those boats have been bought and sold thru the same broker. I think the best thing to do is develop a relationship with a broker over your entire boating life. Find one you like and stick with him. You will learn each other and know how to treat each other. While I am perfectly happy with the boat I have, I am still always looking especially since I am considering the next boat to be my retirement boat. My broker just showed me a boat that I told him, straight up, I was NOT going to buy. I just wanted to look at it to see if it could be considered for a retirement boat or to strike it from the list. It took about 30 minutes of his time. But he knows when the time comes, I will sell my current boat thru him and buy the new one thru him. So giving me his time has value.

My current boat fell to half price after survey. My broker continued to remedy the situation to the point of me buying the boat. Without that, I can guarantee I would not have bought it. But he did ALL of the legwork and locating of parts and prices to get the boat up to useable/enjoyable status....all for a fairly small commission. I even asked him..."Why did you go thru so much trouble for such a small commission?". And his answer was that he knew I would be back for the next one.

Anyway, try to find a broker that you like and stick with them and nurture a relationship. A good broker will understand your intent and work for your business. And in turn, you respect his time and efforts!!!

 

[Heron]

I've bought 2 boats through Brokers... In both cases they found the boat that met my requirements and brought the deal to me. In both cases they met my needs precisely. In the first instance, the boat was $15K over my limit, but the boat was so good, I bought it anyway. The broker read me, my desires, and knew it would fit regardless of price. On my recent Cape Dory, the boat wasn't even on the market, but my broker sleuthed this one out and put the deal together. In both cases I couldn't have been happier with the transactions and broker involvement..

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

OK. My turn. How about a rant on buyers? How about me driving 5 hours each way for serious buyers who don't know what the pointy end is called? How about 40 emails and then they buy through another broker and say "I didn't know you wanted to sell me that boat"? How about sellers that you advertise their boat for a year, show it, survey it and than find out the seller doesn't have clear title and the buyer walks, etc. What about sellers who don't respond when you have a buyer? How about a seller you bring four buyers to in two weeks time and suddenly they "cancel" their six month contract and sell by owner to one of your prospects?

The point is everyone/anyone can behave poorly. Don't be that person and it will all work out in the long run.

I was hoping you would weigh in. You should get a chance to defend from a Brokers point of view!
For some of the new peeps who don't know your posts (been gone for a while), Mark has been more than a straight shooter and conducted himself with the utmost professionalism. He owns the brokerage and is a real cruiser, not a poser. Several members on here have used his services and been very happy with the deal and level of service. He deserves a chance to address the issues presented.

 

[psneeld]

Rants are usually just that....this one and so many are just inexperienced people with the whole system or they just are beyond one standard deviation.


Experts in any field can usually see all sides...they may not agree...but they see and understand.

 

[Daddyo]

I was hoping you would weigh in. You should get a chance to defend from a Brokers point of view!
For some of the new peeps who don't know your posts (been gone for a while), Mark has been more than a straight shooter and conducted himself with the utmost professionalism. He owns the brokerage and is a real cruiser, not a poser. Several members on here have used his services and been very happy with the deal and level of service. He deserves a chance to address the issues presented.

Wow! I am truly humbled. Thank you so much for those kind words. I don't know that I deserve such praise, but I do know there are some in all maligned professions that are doing the right thing for little recognition, for all of them I thank you.

 

[Baker]

Wow! I am truly humbled. Thank you so much for those kind words. I don't know that I deserve such praise, but I do know there are some in all maligned professions that are doing the right thing for little recognition, for all of them I thank you.

While you are the "bad guy" on this thread, feel free to speak up on how we, as potential buyers, could help the process along!!!!

 

[THD]

From my work and personal experience buying lots of different things, in business from real estate to large accounting/software systems to copier paper, and houses, boats, cars and toilet paper at the personal level, anybody in sales, of any type, who represents his/her products honestly, learns and pays attention to the needs of his/her customers, is prompt, attentive and responds timely to inquiries, and provides good post-purchase support will be pretty damned successful at sales. Those who don't, won't.

While I only know Mark through TF, my impression has always been that he is one who does all the above and consequently enjoys the benefits of doing so.

Sometimes is it hard for some in sales (especially here in the Seattle area) to remember-the scruffy guy in jeans, T-shirt, pony tail and full sleeve tats who manages to buy that '89 22 foot Sea-Ray junker you're trying to give away may show up in three years and buy a 164' Westport because his company just went public! Ya just never know!

 

[dhmeissner]

I agree with everything you said. There are brokerage houses that have a minimum commission....so it is not always 10%(5% if co-brokered).

My boating career has spanned 22 years and 6 boats. Most of those boats have been bought and sold thru the same broker. I think the best thing to do is develop a relationship with a broker over your entire boating life. Find one you like and stick with him. You will learn each other and know how to treat each other. While I am perfectly happy with the boat I have, I am still always looking especially since I am considering the next boat to be my retirement boat. My broker just showed me a boat that I told him, straight up, I was NOT going to buy. I just wanted to look at it to see if it could be considered for a retirement boat or to strike it from the list. It took about 30 minutes of his time. But he knows when the time comes, I will sell my current boat thru him and buy the new one thru him. So giving me his time has value.

My current boat fell to half price after survey. My broker continued to remedy the situation to the point of me buying the boat. Without that, I can guarantee I would not have bought it. But he did ALL of the legwork and locating of parts and prices to get the boat up to useable/enjoyable status....all for a fairly small commission. I even asked him..."Why did you go thru so much trouble for such a small commission?". And his answer was that he knew I would be back for the next one.

Anyway, try to find a broker that you like and stick with them and nurture a relationship. A good broker will understand your intent and work for your business. And in turn, you respect his time and efforts!!!

Really nice post Baker

 

[Wxx3]

90% of boats never seem to leave the marina.
20% of those haven't had the owner visit for years.
Yet. the marina bills get paid, etc.

It's all part and parcel of the same thing:

There are a lot of people out there who like the idea of having a boat, so finally, when "forced" to sell by family member, insurance company, marina, or their own conscious, they leave the boat as unappealing as possible.

"See, the boat's for sale"

The one Krogen I looked at in that condition, even unwashed, was for owned and for sale by a boat broker. His wife wanted him to sell it.

his actions told me he didn't.

 

[markpierce]

Whew! Thankfully, the two boats I've purchased (from Texas and China) were directly from the builders.

 

[refugio]

Whew! Thankfully, the two boats I've purchased (from Texas and China) were directly from the builders.

And you know darned well they wanted to sell them!


Keith

 

[refugio]

A couple of thoughts - one, new members who post on this forum looking for a broker in their city would be better off joining a club local to them and getting recommendations from members in their area. Doesn't have to be an expensive yacht club - Power Squadron is $97 for a year. My gut feel is that they think they need a "trawler broker", and there is no such animal.

Second, it's not hard to establish a semi-formal recommendation system. One of my hobbies is wristwatches, and there's a "Good Guys Forum" on WatchNet with these guidelines:

• Only post about recent transactions.
• Your post must include your e-mail address. If you have an established screen name, you may post using that name, however the body of your post must include your true first and last name.
• By posting here, you agree that others may contact you regarding your post, including to verify the accuracy of any information you post.
• Shilling and false or exaggerated posts are strictly prohibited.
• Posts that do not comply with Watchnet guidelines may be removed

 

[FF]

Experts in any field can usually see all sides...they may not agree...but they see and understand.

Some say, "experts " know more and more about less and less ,

till finally they know Everything about NOTHING.

 

[CPseudonym]

I have learned one thing reading this thread. Wife and I need to take our company public!

 

[Tom.B]

Wow! I am truly humbled. Thank you so much for those kind words. I don't know that I deserve such praise, but I do know there are some in all maligned professions that are doing the right thing for little recognition, for all of them I thank you.

Mark was the only broker that made me realize that all brokers aren't complete dickheads.

 

[Art]

Mark was the only broker that made me realize that all brokers aren't complete dickheads.

Wow! Such a Powerful Statement... Only broker out of how many???

Yea for Mark!

 

[Daddyo]

Thank you guys for the nice words! I pride myself in not being, Tom's words "a dickhead"! I'm going to take the suggestion and put together a post on how to be good sellers and good buyers.

 

[Art]

Thank you guys for the nice words! I pride myself in not being, Tom's words "a dickhead"! I'm going to take the suggestion and put together a post on how to be good sellers and good buyers.

Mark - I have always appreciated your posts on TF. Also, I believe and appreciate that you are a good boat broker!

 

[Tom.B]

Wow! Such a Powerful Statement... Only broker out of how many???

Yea for Mark!

Only about five or six... So not really THAT powerful in the grand scheme of things, but still.

 

[sunchaser]

While on the subject of rants, does anyone know if the Viking Binkley bought is the same one for which his certified check went missing?

 

[Max Simmons]

Just saw this beauty on Craigslist and this post came to mind. Galley picture from a 37' Fairliner for sale in Seattle.

 

[wyoboater]

I totally agree with the OP. A boat for sale is going to gather dust, etc. Even some algae growth in certain climes........however, there is NO REASON the boat should be cluttered with people's JUNK/Personal items/etc etc in a pic that's supposed to draw the buyer to the boat. It's not only disgusting, it's stupid for a selling broker to even post those pics. Just my 2 cents