Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-21-2016, 11:24 AM   #121
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
IMHO - Well put! Especially the ending!! Thanks! - Art
Quite honestly it seems to me that tire kicking lookers who have not their homework are more abundant than serious buyers. This then presents a dilemma for the broker and he can't always get it right. The listing brokers seem pretty good from my perspective in comparison to the lookers. I'm in Daddyo's corner.
__________________
Advertisement

sunchaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 11:25 AM   #122
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,515
"if brokers only listed beautiful boats where would the fixer upper or low price buyer shop? "

Most brokers will avoid lower priced boats that need lots of TLC.

Esp a liveaboard "fixer up ER"

The no bucks Lookey Lous can eat weeks of time and effort on a $5,000 bucket.

Not worth the time to pick up the phone.

Craigs List, FL Mariner are a source , but for the best results spend tiny bucks and place a WANTED add in both FL Mariner and Boats and Harbors.

Any DIY boat yard may have some 1/2 finished boats.

Soundings is expensive and takes "forever" for your add to show up, but for an under $50K boat might be worth the few dollars.

Some brokers read lots of sources , so might give you a call.

Good Hunting , what are your Desirements?
__________________

FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 11:34 AM   #123
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 207
Hey guys, it's called "sales". Just like every other type of sales whether it's cars, houses, tools, ice cream, not every one will buy something. Well, maybe except for the ice cream.. If a boat salesman can't handle this then maybe he's in the wrong profession? It takes a certain personality to do sales.
Someone like me will look at many boats before I decide which one I'll buy, if I actually do buy one. Isn't that what is generally recommended here? Look at as many as you can?
For a potential buyer such as me it is difficult to pin down an actual budget because depending on which type of boat, what size, and what condition it's in, my budget could be half or twice that amount.
So while right now I'm a "lookie lou" and want to see and walk on everything from sports fisherman's to motor yachts to trawlers if a broker "does me wrong" he definitely won't get my business. If I find one that I trust then I will make every effort to buy through him.
folivier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 11:38 AM   #124
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,724
Quote:
Most brokers will avoid lower priced boats that need lots of TLC...
I can't blame them. You have a $25,000 boat for sale that needs a little work. The broker lists/markets, shows it, hand holds a few prospective buyers. Someone shows up with a buyers broker and the deals done. After the survey, sea trials and closing, the listing broker gets 5% of the sale before expenses/overhead. If the broker works for a brokerage firm he's giving up more. Nor much of a wage IMHO.
Larry M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 11:56 AM   #125
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,994
Greetings,
EVERYONE in sales should read: https://books.google.ca/books/about/...d=LCwTFv5LdcUC

A synopsis is here: http://www.educationalservice.net/eb...TO-SELL%20.pdf
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 12:01 PM   #126
Guru
 
MYTraveler's Avatar
 
City: West Coast
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by what_barnacles View Post
99.99% of them have clauses that state if you change the boat you have to tell them, obviously so they can reconsider the boats value based on current equipment.

Ill also add that my own insurance company floored me with a letter stating that I should reconsider the amount I insured my rv and other boat for because their internal valuation was less than the policy was written for. I considered it kind of extraordinary of them to tell me I was throwing money at them for nothing.
If you had an agreed value policy, common for boats, their motivation may have been to diminish the "moral hazard" of you having an incentive for the boat to sink.
MYTraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 03:17 PM   #127
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
I can't blame them. You have a $25,000 boat for sale that needs a little work. The broker lists/markets, shows it, hand holds a few prospective buyers. Someone shows up with a buyers broker and the deals done. After the survey, sea trials and closing, the listing broker gets 5% of the sale before expenses/overhead. If the broker works for a brokerage firm he's giving up more. Nor much of a wage IMHO.
I agree with everything you said. There are brokerage houses that have a minimum commission....so it is not always 10%(5% if co-brokered).

My boating career has spanned 22 years and 6 boats. Most of those boats have been bought and sold thru the same broker. I think the best thing to do is develop a relationship with a broker over your entire boating life. Find one you like and stick with him. You will learn each other and know how to treat each other. While I am perfectly happy with the boat I have, I am still always looking especially since I am considering the next boat to be my retirement boat. My broker just showed me a boat that I told him, straight up, I was NOT going to buy. I just wanted to look at it to see if it could be considered for a retirement boat or to strike it from the list. It took about 30 minutes of his time. But he knows when the time comes, I will sell my current boat thru him and buy the new one thru him. So giving me his time has value.

My current boat fell to half price after survey. My broker continued to remedy the situation to the point of me buying the boat. Without that, I can guarantee I would not have bought it. But he did ALL of the legwork and locating of parts and prices to get the boat up to useable/enjoyable status....all for a fairly small commission. I even asked him..."Why did you go thru so much trouble for such a small commission?". And his answer was that he knew I would be back for the next one.

Anyway, try to find a broker that you like and stick with them and nurture a relationship. A good broker will understand your intent and work for your business. And in turn, you respect his time and efforts!!!
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 03:46 PM   #128
Guru
 
Heron's Avatar
 
City: Cypress Landing Marina (NC)
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Heron (2)
Vessel Model: '88 Cape Dory 28 Flybridge #115
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,077
I've bought 2 boats through Brokers... In both cases they found the boat that met my requirements and brought the deal to me. In both cases they met my needs precisely. In the first instance, the boat was $15K over my limit, but the boat was so good, I bought it anyway. The broker read me, my desires, and knew it would fit regardless of price. On my recent Cape Dory, the boat wasn't even on the market, but my broker sleuthed this one out and put the deal together. In both cases I couldn't have been happier with the transactions and broker involvement..
__________________
Steve
Heron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 06:34 PM   #129
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,941
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddyo View Post
OK. My turn. How about a rant on buyers? How about me driving 5 hours each way for serious buyers who don't know what the pointy end is called? How about 40 emails and then they buy through another broker and say "I didn't know you wanted to sell me that boat"? How about sellers that you advertise their boat for a year, show it, survey it and than find out the seller doesn't have clear title and the buyer walks, etc. What about sellers who don't respond when you have a buyer? How about a seller you bring four buyers to in two weeks time and suddenly they "cancel" their six month contract and sell by owner to one of your prospects?

The point is everyone/anyone can behave poorly. Don't be that person and it will all work out in the long run.
I was hoping you would weigh in. You should get a chance to defend from a Brokers point of view!
For some of the new peeps who don't know your posts (been gone for a while), Mark has been more than a straight shooter and conducted himself with the utmost professionalism. He owns the brokerage and is a real cruiser, not a poser. Several members on here have used his services and been very happy with the deal and level of service. He deserves a chance to address the issues presented.
Sailor of Fortune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 08:04 PM   #130
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,861
Rants are usually just that....this one and so many are just inexperienced people with the whole system or they just are beyond one standard deviation.


Experts in any field can usually see all sides...they may not agree...but they see and understand.
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 11:36 PM   #131
Guru
 
Daddyo's Avatar


 
City: Cruising East Coast US
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Grace
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor of Fortune View Post
I was hoping you would weigh in. You should get a chance to defend from a Brokers point of view!
For some of the new peeps who don't know your posts (been gone for a while), Mark has been more than a straight shooter and conducted himself with the utmost professionalism. He owns the brokerage and is a real cruiser, not a poser. Several members on here have used his services and been very happy with the deal and level of service. He deserves a chance to address the issues presented.
Wow! I am truly humbled. Thank you so much for those kind words. I don't know that I deserve such praise, but I do know there are some in all maligned professions that are doing the right thing for little recognition, for all of them I thank you.
__________________
Mark Bowerman
Brokerage owner and cruiser
Esse Quam Videri
http://graceyachting.com/
Daddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 01:00 AM   #132
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddyo View Post
Wow! I am truly humbled. Thank you so much for those kind words. I don't know that I deserve such praise, but I do know there are some in all maligned professions that are doing the right thing for little recognition, for all of them I thank you.
While you are the "bad guy" on this thread, feel free to speak up on how we, as potential buyers, could help the process along!!!!
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 02:08 AM   #133
THD
Guru
 
City: Seattle
Country: US
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,142
From my work and personal experience buying lots of different things, in business from real estate to large accounting/software systems to copier paper, and houses, boats, cars and toilet paper at the personal level, anybody in sales, of any type, who represents his/her products honestly, learns and pays attention to the needs of his/her customers, is prompt, attentive and responds timely to inquiries, and provides good post-purchase support will be pretty damned successful at sales. Those who don't, won't.

While I only know Mark through TF, my impression has always been that he is one who does all the above and consequently enjoys the benefits of doing so.

Sometimes is it hard for some in sales (especially here in the Seattle area) to remember-the scruffy guy in jeans, T-shirt, pony tail and full sleeve tats who manages to buy that '89 22 foot Sea-Ray junker you're trying to give away may show up in three years and buy a 164' Westport because his company just went public! Ya just never know!
THD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 02:20 AM   #134
Guru
 
dhmeissner's Avatar
 
City: Seattle
Country: North America
Vessel Name: The Promise
Vessel Model: Roughwater 35
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baker View Post
I agree with everything you said. There are brokerage houses that have a minimum commission....so it is not always 10%(5% if co-brokered).

My boating career has spanned 22 years and 6 boats. Most of those boats have been bought and sold thru the same broker. I think the best thing to do is develop a relationship with a broker over your entire boating life. Find one you like and stick with him. You will learn each other and know how to treat each other. While I am perfectly happy with the boat I have, I am still always looking especially since I am considering the next boat to be my retirement boat. My broker just showed me a boat that I told him, straight up, I was NOT going to buy. I just wanted to look at it to see if it could be considered for a retirement boat or to strike it from the list. It took about 30 minutes of his time. But he knows when the time comes, I will sell my current boat thru him and buy the new one thru him. So giving me his time has value.

My current boat fell to half price after survey. My broker continued to remedy the situation to the point of me buying the boat. Without that, I can guarantee I would not have bought it. But he did ALL of the legwork and locating of parts and prices to get the boat up to useable/enjoyable status....all for a fairly small commission. I even asked him..."Why did you go thru so much trouble for such a small commission?". And his answer was that he knew I would be back for the next one.

Anyway, try to find a broker that you like and stick with them and nurture a relationship. A good broker will understand your intent and work for your business. And in turn, you respect his time and efforts!!!
Really nice post Baker
__________________
Dave & Suzie - Roughwater 35
http://thepromiserwb1029.org/2012/09...the-promise-2/
dhmeissner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 02:39 AM   #135
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: New York, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,312
90% of boats never seem to leave the marina.
20% of those haven't had the owner visit for years.
Yet. the marina bills get paid, etc.

It's all part and parcel of the same thing:

There are a lot of people out there who like the idea of having a boat, so finally, when "forced" to sell by family member, insurance company, marina, or their own conscious, they leave the boat as unappealing as possible.

"See, the boat's for sale"

The one Krogen I looked at in that condition, even unwashed, was for owned and for sale by a boat broker. His wife wanted him to sell it.

his actions told me he didn't.
__________________
M/Y Dauntless, New York
a Kadey Krogen 42 Currently https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Blog: https://dauntlessatsea.com
Find us: https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 03:33 AM   #136
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,251
Whew! Thankfully, the two boats I've purchased (from Texas and China) were directly from the builders.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 08:22 AM   #137
Guru
 
refugio's Avatar
 
City: Meydenbauer Bay Yacht Club
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Refugio
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Whew! Thankfully, the two boats I've purchased (from Texas and China) were directly from the builders.
And you know darned well they wanted to sell them!


Keith
__________________
Keith
refugio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 09:12 AM   #138
Guru
 
refugio's Avatar
 
City: Meydenbauer Bay Yacht Club
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Refugio
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,141
A couple of thoughts - one, new members who post on this forum looking for a broker in their city would be better off joining a club local to them and getting recommendations from members in their area. Doesn't have to be an expensive yacht club - Power Squadron is $97 for a year. My gut feel is that they think they need a "trawler broker", and there is no such animal.

Second, it's not hard to establish a semi-formal recommendation system. One of my hobbies is wristwatches, and there's a "Good Guys Forum" on WatchNet with these guidelines:
  • Only post about recent transactions.
  • Your post must include your e-mail address. If you have an established screen name, you may post using that name, however the body of your post must include your true first and last name.
  • By posting here, you agree that others may contact you regarding your post, including to verify the accuracy of any information you post.
  • Shilling and false or exaggerated posts are strictly prohibited.
  • Posts that do not comply with Watchnet guidelines may be removed
__________________
Keith
refugio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 01:05 PM   #139
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,515
Experts in any field can usually see all sides...they may not agree...but they see and understand.

Some say, "experts " know more and more about less and less ,

till finally they know Everything about NOTHING.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 01:22 PM   #140
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
I have learned one thing reading this thread. Wife and I need to take our company public!
__________________

__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012