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Old 04-19-2016, 09:12 AM   #41
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Greetings,
As you are all probably aware, MY biggest beef with boat listings is, as mentioned, lack of ER pictures. The state of the ER is a benchmark for the overall boat maintenance. Rattle can "tune ups" with over spray suggest other items have been covered up to hide deficiencies IMO.

Re: Post #30. Yes, some marine appliances have been built for a more severe environment but in many cases cost 2X to 5X more than a perfectly serviceable domestic appliance. Case in point...Our Home Despot reefer cost a fraction of a marine unit. I called the manufacturer and asked about locations on the unit to affix brackets and door clasps which were duly installed. It's secure and operates as desired.
Engines = heart of the subject for power boats. No working engine[s] = Dock Queen... exclusively! Therefore, keeping engines and their periphery equipment clean and in good working order/condition is one of the most important and needed items regarding pleasure or commercial boating. My pet peeve (required need) regarding engines in a boat is to NOT be locked into a stoop-over-only engine compartment. Either my boats have full-on stand up engine room... or... they have BIG hatches that open up easily and wide so that I can be standing most of the time while doing anything in engine compartment. When we purchased our Tolly I hired a renowned Marine Engine Mechanic and a well respected Marine Sanitation expert for engine analysis as well as improved sanitation systems under salon sole regarding two heads. Both persons remarked how excellently laid out our Tolly is for easy working conditions. I love to "jump" (i.e. gently step) into our Tolly's clean, roomy, stand up, fully broad-hatched engine compartment for any reason at all; often do so pre dawn just for general check up as well as S&G. I will not purchase a boat that limits me to a crouched position in its engine compartment... there is no need to have that encumbrance at hand - period!

Appliances = Each to their own!
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:17 AM   #42
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Engines = heart of the subject I love to "jump" (i.e. gently step) into our Tolly's clean, roomy, stand up, fully broad-hatched engine compartment for any reason at all; often do so pre dawn just for general check up as well as S&G. I will not purchase a boat that limits me to a crouched position in its engine compartment... there is no need to have that encumbrance at hand - period!
Ah Ha ! i'm asingle engine guy too.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:20 AM   #43
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The majority of regular posters on this forum are the exception. There are some remarkably clean and well organized engine compartments routinely shown on this forum.
After crawling through thousands of boats I can tell you, you guys are a cut above.

On the other hand I get to hang around boats all day then people give me money
You have good way[s] to go!

We luv our Tolly!
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:31 AM   #44
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What are they hiding is my first thought with a staged boat. It has to look real.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:52 AM   #45
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Close the head seat. Flush it! Virgina Yacht Brokers always does a good job on staging. It gets the wife's attention, and that can be a deal breaker!
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:36 AM   #46
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Close the head seat. Flush it!
And no toilet paper streamers. Put the tools away. It helps to remove the window coverings too. Brighten the boat up a little.

My guess is that the broker meets the owner at the boat for 10 minutes while they are cleaning it up, whips out his cell phone, takes a few quick shots, then leaves. Afterwards they post a listing with poor spelling - and hope to sell a vessel that may cost more than a house in many cases.

I'd bet that nicely staged and high quality images, good grammar and spelling - heck - I could get someone more money for their boat...

my 2
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:57 AM   #47
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This is the century of "What me Worry?"

I'm inclined to try and see the boat itself w/o the clutter. All clutter and dirt can be cleaned up. When you go over the boat thoroughly and buy it you've got the boat you've checked out and the annoyance is history. And of course if you're smart you got a better price taking advantage of the sellers bad marketing skills or even stupidity.

On the other hand if he treated the other aspects of the same way he treated the boat and presentation pics you're probably wasting your time. However the boat could be a never to be found again boat perfect for your needs it could be best to overlook the mess.

But if you're insulted by the pictures personally you could be getting in the way of good boat buy for yourself.

Having said that I do agree about Cell phone pics. I'ts widespread w car salesmen. You'd think a "professional" would put more effort into his work.
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:33 AM   #48
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It is kind of ironic to me that so many boats, even pretty high priced ones look so bad when up for sale. The irony is that those same people, when they put their house up for sale, will have their broker pay someone to "stage" their house.

The people who'll pay to have their home staged will also stage their boats and are a very small segment of the population. Half the rest will makes sure everything in is "shipshape" in the house AND the boat...the other half are either about to lose both the boat and house to foreclosure or so busy just trying to keep their heads above water that they have no energy left to take care of what they own...or they were raised as slobs and don't even see the dirt and mess.

Marine appliances are usually built for the environment and able to be secured properly. I doubt that a Walmart refer is built as well.

Anything that can survive in a beach house can stand up to the "marine environment" on a boat. I had no problem securing the microwaves I bought from Walmart for my boats, nor with their durability. Walmart doesn't sell dual voltage refers, but their "dorm" fridges are as well built as you'll find anywhere else and can be properly secured. And then there small appliances...where have you ever seen "marine" vacuum cleaners? blenders" coffee makers? hair dryers? There are 12v versions...you'll find 'em at Walmart, RV supply stores and truck stops...which hardly makes those "marine"... and besides, they don't work nearly as well as 115v "household" appliances.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:06 PM   #49
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Those same Walmart appliances are sold in tropical areas where homes are more open to the weather than most cabin boats
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:08 PM   #50
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I'm inclined to try and see the boat itself w/o the clutter. All clutter and dirt can be cleaned up. When you go over the boat thoroughly and buy it you've got the boat you've checked out and the annoyance is history. And of course if you're smart you got a better price taking advantage of the sellers bad marketing skills or even stupidity.
...
But if you're insulted by the pictures personally you could be getting in the way of good boat buy for yourself.

Having said that I do agree about Cell phone pics. I'ts widespread w car salesmen. You'd think a "professional" would put more effort into his work.
I've said it a couple of times before - I love crappy selling brokers, boats that haven't been "staged", and lousy pics. I'd love it even more if there was a sign on the boat saying "Go away!". But then I'm probably looking for the "diamond in the rough" and not one in a Tiffany setting. I will admit this is a challenge with my spouse who would want the Tiffany diamond.

But I live in the PNW where boats are plentiful - and I can understand the frustration of pouring a lot of money into investigating a remote boat. However, I think we've surfaced a few strategies for that (having a local TFer look it over, hiring a surveyor with a quick exit option, somehow getting the crappy broker to provide better pictures).
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:25 PM   #51
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Remote boats often seem better than they really are
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:39 PM   #52
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Maine appliances are usually built for the environment and able to be secured properly. I doubt that a Walmart refer is built as well.
I tell ya what....I have a "marine" Norcold at $1400 and it is quite possibly the biggest piece of crap on my entire boat. It's a new one too with the newest compressor. I have seen many household reefers built WAY better at half the cost. It's only redeeming quality is the ability to run on 12 volts. If this thing ever dies, I will happily replace it with a Walmart brand and let it run off of the inverter!!! The Norcold does anyway...the way my inverter set up is.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:55 PM   #53
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My iPhone6 takes excellent photos and I wouldn't hesitate to use it for many situations including photos of my boat. It's only limitation is that it doesn't have a wide enough angle for interior shots. (I have a Nikon D7000 with wide angle for those shots.)
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:05 PM   #54
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My point is that if they can't keep it clean then what is the maintenance like on systems?
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you must be looking at boats that are at the low end of the typical asking price for the type of boat..
you get what you pay for.. especially in boats

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Old 04-19-2016, 01:10 PM   #55
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Greetings,
I wonder how many brokers would agree to pay your trip to and from the boat IF it is not as described?
Something like this: "Mr. broker. You say the boat is turnkey and everything works. It's exactly the make and model I'm looking for and it seems a good price but it will cost me $XX to fly there to take a look. Are you willing to stand by your description of the vessel enough to pay my expenses if it is NOT as described?" "NO?...OK what is wrong with it?" "Can I have that in writing?"

Hahahaha....Good luck.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:52 PM   #56
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I have been a sales guy all my working life. The lousy listings I see make me CRAZY! Dirty boats, pictures out of focus, things that really matter like ERs not shown at all, and on and on and on. Grrrr. I am almost tempted to become a yacht broker just to do it the right way. On second thought ... nah.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:53 PM   #57
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Greetings,
I wonder how many brokers would agree to pay your trip to and from the boat IF it is not as described?
Something like this: "Mr. broker. You say the boat is turnkey and everything works. It's exactly the make and model I'm looking for and it seems a good price but it will cost me $XX to fly there to take a look. Are you willing to stand by your description of the vessel enough to pay my expenses if it is NOT as described?" "NO?...OK what is wrong with it?" "Can I have that in writing?"

Hahahaha....Good luck.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:56 PM   #58
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I tell ya what....I have a "marine" Norcold at $1400 and it is quite possibly the biggest piece of crap on my entire boat. It's a new one too with the newest compressor. I have seen many household reefers built WAY better at half the cost. It's only redeeming quality is the ability to run on 12 volts. If this thing ever dies, I will happily replace it with a Walmart brand and let it run off of the inverter!!! The Norcold does anyway...the way my inverter set up is.
Our small fridge came from HD - 9 years - not a lick of problem. Cost - $200 +/- inc tax!
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:57 PM   #59
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My iPhone6 takes excellent photos and I wouldn't hesitate to use it for many situations including photos of my boat. It's only limitation is that it doesn't have a wide enough angle for interior shots. (I have a Nikon D7000 with wide angle for those shots.)
You can now buy wide angle, macro and even fish eye lenses to fit any smart phone, some of which are quite good and the prices are reasonable. Amazon has a bunch of 'em and you can find reviews for most of 'em on and off Amazon. I've almost stopped hauling my Canon 60D and lenses around, in fact even considering selling 'em 'cuz my iphone 6+ and Canon G1X are all I seem to need any more. And from what I've been reading about what the camera in the iPhone 7 will have to offer, it will rival any DSLR.
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:10 PM   #60
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You can now buy wide angle, macro and even fish eye lenses to fit any smart phone, some of which are quite good and the prices are reasonable. Amazon has a bunch of 'em and you can find reviews for most of 'em on and off Amazon. I've almost stopped hauling my Canon 60D and lenses around, in fact even considering selling 'em 'cuz my iphone 6+ and Canon G1X are all I seem to need any more. And from what I've been reading about what the camera in the iPhone 7 will have to offer, it will rival any DSLR.
My goodness Peggie - This is the first thread where I've not seen you instructing on heads! Redressing! And, Thanks!! - Art
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