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Old 07-31-2012, 07:01 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by refugio View Post
Busted! I thought of that possibility as I was writing the post but I was in such a hurry to read the Marin thread that I just winged it.
not a problem... just wanting to know.... so... even though we identify our responses as 'Susan and Dan' are there so few women on the forum that everyone assumes that the responder is a man... just curious.. or does it depend on the thread.. if it is more or less technical????
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:04 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Delia Rosa

Regardless of how busy a location might be, and also recognizing rules about the 'give way' vessel.... like refugio, I would rather have as complete a picture of the traffic as possible and avoid any potential problems. As we all know, even if you have the right of way, dead is still dead!

(snipped).
I just had to chuckle when I read your statement, "dead is still dead". During one of my earlier classes on boat handling, we were aboard a Chris Craft Constellation and I was at the helm. Adjacent to the wheel and throttles, there was a brass placard that read,

"Such was the fate of Captain O'Day
Who died defending his right of way.
Although he was right as he sped along,
He's just as dead as though he was wrong."

I don't know why I remembered this ditty, but I found that I always kept it in mind when "forcing" my right of way, especially with a larger vessel that presumably would take a mile to slow to a stop.

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Old 07-31-2012, 07:10 PM   #43
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Wow...guess I have a hard time imagining the awesome responsibility and absolute concentration it must take commanding a 40-50 something, recreational boat doing a whopping 6-10 knots.

All I can say is that I never imagined instant 360 degree visibility and reaction time must be critical for safe navigation...

My apologies for misinterpreting the rules as they are stated...

When I get bored at work I can only think of how I can hone my skills when out recreating...this must be a piece of cake for most here....pushing 120 foot barges with 26 foot tugs around these lagoons...
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:18 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Delia Rosa View Post
...so... even though we identify our responses as 'Susan and Dan' are there so few women on the forum that everyone assumes that the responder is a man... just curious.. or does it depend on the thread.. if it is more or less technical????
Speaking just for myself, I don't look at signatures - I see the avatar and boat picture. I used to use my name back on the trawlerlist, but now I don't - trying to keep my professional and private lives separate.
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by MilShooter View Post
I just had to chuckle when I read your statement, "dead is still dead". During one of my earlier classes on boat handling, we were aboard a Chris Craft Constellation and I was at the helm. Adjacent to the wheel and throttles, there was a brass placard that read,

"Such was the fate of Captain O'Day
Who died defending his right of way.
Although he was right as he sped along,
He's just as dead as though he was wrong."

I don't know why I remembered this ditty, but I found that I always kept it in mind when "forcing" my right of way, especially with a larger vessel that presumably would take a mile to slow to a stop.

MilShooter
When we were bringing our trawler home a few years ago, during our transit of Long Island Sound we had a very close moment with a very large tug... although we were on the outside edge of the commercial transit area, in fog even with radar... we were almost hit by a very large tug... they never recognized our trawler even after loud alarms from our boat... we were fortunate to survive the experience!! We now have AIS!!!
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:21 PM   #46
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When we were bringing our trawler home a few years ago, during our transit of Long Island Sound we had a very close moment with a very large tug... although we were on the outside edge of the commercial transit area, in fog even with radar... we were almost hit by a very large tug... they never recognized our trawler even after loud alarms from our boat... we were fortunate to survive the experience!! We now have AIS!!!
This is only to say that whatever safeguards you have, they are important!
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:23 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Delia Rosa View Post
When we were bringing our trawler home a few years ago, during our transit of Long Island Sound we had a very close moment with a very large tug... although we were on the outside edge of the commercial transit area, in fog even with radar... we were almost hit by a very large tug... they never recognized our trawler even after loud alarms from our boat... we were fortunate to survive the experience!! We now have AIS!!!
Many of the tug guys I know think we are nothing but speed bumps.

Maybe now after the duck boat thing in Philly...they may not be so arrogant...or at least not be on their phones when they run us over...
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:00 AM   #48
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Visibility aft was not one of our priorities in boat selection, but we prefer the style and convenience of raised pilothouse boats like the DeFever 49 and more recently, the Ocean Alexander we saw at Trawlerfest Ft. Lauderdale. Here in Miami where busy holidays are more like a day at the races, we delight in the visibility from the helm of our Manatee. If we made a move to another mono-hull boat, I'd probably look for the best conditioned RPH I could find, most likely a DeFever 49 or Krogen Whaleback.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:44 AM   #49
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The twin versus single screw debate was pretty much what I thought it would be, but there was very little comment on the displacement versus semi-displacement. Any of you that have full displacement hulls ever in a situation where you wished you could go faster? Or is it something you just get used to and you plan around currents & tides? And for the people that have semi-displacement hulls, do you ever really use the extra speed or do you run in the 8 knot range most of the time anyway?
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:17 AM   #50
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The twin versus single screw debate was pretty much what I thought it would be, but there was very little comment on the displacement versus semi-displacement. Any of you that have full displacement hulls ever in a situation where you wished you could go faster? Or is it something you just get used to and you plan around currents & tides? And for the people that have semi-displacement hulls, do you ever really use the extra speed or do you run in the 8 knot range most of the time anyway?
We run our semi displacement boat at displacement speeds 90% of the time. The boat is level, and the boat "feels right"

We occasionally bump the speed up to 15 knots. We do this when for whatever reason we want to get somewhere and time is limited.

A good example of this is that we want to make a comfortable anchorage but got delayed getting out of the harbor. If we bump up the speed we can get there in a little over 1/2 the time. The avaibility of speed can and has made a positibe difference in our cruising experiences.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:06 PM   #51
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Absolutely love our raised pilothouse - with large rear-facing windows that give excellent visibility (we have a queen berth /settee in the PH and prefer to sleep there). I see lots of pilothouses with solid aft bulkheads - or tiny portholes easily obscured - and I know that they would definitely bug me underway.

So what is the black thing on the stern that looks like an out drive? Your get home?
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:32 PM   #52
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So what is the black thing on the stern that looks like an out drive? Your get home?
It looks like a device to turn the exhaust down to direct the water flow away from the dinghy and act as a muffler.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:57 PM   #53
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Any pilot house is fine ,

BUT if the forward facing windows are sealed/inoperable , being anchored out , with a fine cooling breeze , still means the Air Cond & Noisemaker will be on.

UGH!!!
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:54 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by KCaldwell View Post
The twin versus single screw debate was pretty much what I thought it would be, but there was very little comment on the displacement versus semi-displacement. Any of you that have full displacement hulls ever in a situation where you wished you could go faster? Or is it something you just get used to and you plan around currents & tides? And for the people that have semi-displacement hulls, do you ever really use the extra speed or do you run in the 8 knot range most of the time anyway?
No, I cruised my planing hull boat on one engine at 7-8 knots for a year to make sure I could really stand traveling at that speed. Saved a lot of gas! Got the full displacement Krogen 42 and love it! You just have to plan for traveling at that speed. I love the fuel bills, or lack therof.
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:30 PM   #55
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And for the people that have semi-displacement hulls, do you ever really use the extra speed or do you run in the 8 knot range most of the time anyway?
Grand Banks are semi-planing hulls (the term semi-displacement, while commonly used, is actually inaccurate. It's sort of like saying semi-dead A boat is either displacement or it's not, whereas there are varying degrees of being on a plane). If we had engines that could do it, we would cruise our boat at 9 or 10 knots, maybe more. But the engines in our boat can't do that so we cruise at about 8 knots and hate it despite the economy. Slow sucks, is our motto.

But we've met a number of boaters who rountinely cruise their higher-powered, semi-planing boats much faster than hull speed. In fact it is the large market of people like this that led Grand Banks and others to start putting larger and larger engines into their boats sarting in the later 80s. The buyers, many of whom have limited time for boating, want to get to their destinations as fast as possible, then cruise around at a slower pace, and then blast home again, thus maximizing their time in the waters they want to visit and minimizing the time it takes to get there and back.

A classic example in this area is Desolation Sound. People with high-power GBs can get there from the northern end of Puget Sound at 15-16 knots in a day and a half to two, where it takes us four days at 8 knots if the weather cooperates. This is running a reasonable amount of time each day, not running sunrise to sunset or all day and all night.

Everything is relative but fuel remains one of the smallest costs of boating. To people who can afford new or newish GBs, Flemings, etc, fuel is the next thing to being free. They believe their time is far more valuable than fuel, so they are willing to run for a few days at 23-30 gph to maximize their vacation time in the waters they want to be in, like Desolation Sound. Once there they're happy to plod around at 8 or 9 knots burning 7 or 8 gph. The semi-planing hull can provide the means to do both.

We would definitely use it that way if we had a boat that could take advantage of the hull design. Unfortunately, we have the hull but we don't have the power. If we end up reworking the boat we have now, we will install somewhat more powerful engines so we can climb out of the 8 knot primordial ooze and "zip" along at 10 or 12.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:52 PM   #56
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I had a pilot house boat, 45 CHB, see the avatar, for 25 yrs and over 6,300 hours and would do it again, P/H is the "only way to go" comfortably cruising. Other opinions vary!!
It is a twin but if I had my druthers after all those yrs a single would be my choice! Again opinions vary.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:03 PM   #57
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It looks like a device to turn the exhaust down to direct the water flow away from the dinghy and act as a muffler.
Good catch - it's a Salisbury exhaust director. I just googled it and came up with this mention of a Salisbury Hydro-Vac:
Detroit Diesel Fuel Consumption ... yes another thread

I have a Volvo TMD100A that is 30+ years old and very old-school tech-wise, so it smokes a bit when cold and the exhaust director helps push that below the water where it reduces the soot on my transom (and doesn't asphyxiate nearby boaters).

I moor on Lake Washington, and there are a lot of near-shore critters that like to crawl up into exhausts and munch on rubber bits, and I think this helps deter them (and my exhaust is rigid all the way to the AquaLift muffler).
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:19 PM   #58
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I had a pilot house boat, 45 CHB, see the avatar, for 25 yrs and over 6,300 hours and would do it again, P/H is the "only way to go" comfortably cruising.
Hey Charles! I was meaning to say "hi" from the old trawlerlist. I was thinking of you the other day when someone was talking about replacing their teak decks - whatever happened to that PDF from your Passagemaker article? Even googling it now all I can find is a CBrats reference from Dr. Bob....is it online somewhere?

FWIW, I think it was you who also turned me on to Gulf Coast Filters - ten plus years later I'm still loving that one.

Thanks for your contributions over the years! (Keith Pleas)
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:29 PM   #59
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Grand Banks are semi-planing hulls (the term semi-displacement, while commonly used, is actually inaccurate...)
FWIW, here's a discussion of the hull form of a Fleming 53 ("a hard-chined, semi-displacement hull") compared to a Kady Krogen 54 by Ken Hankinson, "Naval Architect", but then what would he know about boats compared to Marin.
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:22 AM   #60
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I adhere to naval architect Tom Fexas' definition who's the one I read debunk the "semi-displacement" myth. His explanation made all sorts of sense to me.

I don't know that just putting your exhaust outlet underwater will necessarily deter a muskrat from climbing up into your exhaust. A friend of a friend was one of the people at the Seattle Yacht Club slips who had their boat sunk by a muskrat awhile back. They apparently thought they were immune because their boat had underwater exhausts. The reliable prevention seems to be a stainless screen or bars over the exhaust outlet.
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