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Old 11-07-2014, 05:47 AM   #21
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>Annual rainfall in south FL is over 60 inches per year.<

From SUMMER thunderstorms and an occasional hurricane.

AS a snow bird we see the dry season , so dry the bugs only come out at dusk.

No screens on our porch!
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Old 11-07-2014, 07:49 AM   #22
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Annual rainfall in south FL is over 60 inches per year.

Yep, but it all happens in the Summer between 3:00 and 3:15 pm every day or so... big deluge... then the humidity drops.... and the rest of the time it's bright and sunny.



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Old 11-07-2014, 08:35 AM   #23
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Yep, but it all happens in the Summer between 3:00 and 3:15 pm every day or so... big deluge... then the humidity drops.... and the rest of the time it's bright and sunny.



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Old 11-07-2014, 09:07 AM   #24
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I don't know. As a kid (I was born and raised in Florida) I remember those afternoon showers very clearly. Now they don't come nearly as often or with anything approaching the time regularity, but people still talk about it.

Now, it seems much of our rainfall comes in big events, either a once a week deluge in the summer that overflows the gutters, a tropical event or strong rains associated with a frontal boundary in the cooler months.

No idea what this means about the climate, that's above my pay grade.
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:14 AM   #25
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Our rain here in NC also tends to come in deluges. Summer thunderstorms, tropical systems, cold fronts, etc. Fairly rare to get rain that lasts more than a day or so. Most of it drops so fast that it just runs off, not much chance for it to soak in.

This summer we got some unusual multi day events, and they were centered on the weekends. Really annoyed the weekenders.
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:47 AM   #26
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I've sometimes wondered why the US does not make use of this technology. .

Back in the 60s and the CA water shortage issues were well understood, there was a big push from both Mexico and the US to install nuclear desalination plants in SoCal and both sides of the Baja. With CA mentality then little different than now the chorus of no no was deafening.

Then the CA voters said lets get rid of a few big reservoirs while we're at it and outlaw construction of new.

With the water rights AZ had, the Colorado River was tapped and Carl Hayden's CAP project came to fruition satisfying AZ needs, for awhile anyway. Some degree of common sense prevailed across state lines.

CA leaders and voters have created their water shortage woes and are reaping the folly of their decisions. If you want to see a quick change in CA mentality outlaw watering all lawns, palm trees, irrigated crops and golf courses. Then the CA landscape will revert to what it was 120 years ago, a low rainfall desert area not pretending it is Florida or the PNW for water resources..

And, hope for desalination will become a reality just as it is in the Middle East.
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:22 AM   #27
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Desal is very energy intensive and expensive, be it thermal or reverse osmosis. Hard to justify spending that kind of money to create first rate pure water that is then used to flush toilets, wash cars and water lawns.
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Old 11-07-2014, 11:58 AM   #28
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With CA mentality then little different than now the chorus of no no was deafening.
Then the CA voters said lets get rid of a few big reservoirs while we're at it and outlaw construction of new.
Balancing environmental concerns verses those of humanity can be difficult. Tearing down the dams is a popular theme here as well and granted some needed to come down. Those same people don't want more coal, gas, nuclear fired or bird killing wind generated energy either. But they will mostly all agree they want that electrical power and water coming in from the street and are quick to complain when it doesn't.
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:30 PM   #29
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Desal is very energy intensive and expensive, be it thermal or reverse osmosis. Hard to justify spending that kind of money to create first rate pure water that is then used to flush toilets, wash cars and water lawns.
Well, if you price that water at or above the cost to produce, wouldn't it then be up to the consumer to decide if it was "worth it" to them?
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:45 PM   #30
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Well, if you price that water at or above the cost to produce, wouldn't it then be up to the consumer to decide if it was "worth it" to them?
True, that. But as I understand it, part of the problem is that the water is not market priced. Supply is allocated based on a complex set of quotas and rules that might be 100yrs old. But I'm an east coaster, so I don't really know much more than that!!

One solution would be to price the water higher when scarce, and let the market decide where to conserve, or whether a desal plant makes sense.

When reservoirs drop in level, price goes up- just a thought.
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:03 PM   #31
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In Seattle 5 days in a row are common. 15 to 20 starts getting nervy. The only reason I am on the site is rain and gusts in the high 20-30 range.
It seems to mostly drizzle there.
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:09 PM   #32
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Most of those desalination plants use waste heat recovery from cogen plants. California could get electricity and water. Then maybe they wouldn't have to steal electricity from BC...

Marin, many if the falling vapor film evaporators used in vapor compression desalination around the world are designed in Bellevue...
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Old 11-07-2014, 05:23 PM   #33
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Marin, many if the falling vapor film evaporators used in vapor compression desalination around the world are designed in Bellevue...
Good to know that somebody in Bellevue is actually doing something useful rather than just buying high-end shoes in Bellevue Square.
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Old 11-07-2014, 05:54 PM   #34
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Cape May , NJ like many barrier beach and shore towns are running short of fresh water as salt water is intruding into the town well aquifers...it may become popular at an accelerated rate soon.

Desalination: Cape May Leads the Northeastern U.S. | CapeMay.com Blog
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:45 PM   #35
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Desal is very energy intensive and expensive, be it thermal or reverse osmosis. Hard to justify spending that kind of money to create first rate pure water that is then used to flush toilets, wash cars and water lawns.
Actually desalination is quite common as Marin notes. More than Saudi Arabia. About 40% of Israel's water comes from desalination. Sidney and Perth Australia desalinate with wind farms generating the power.

Singapore, Japan, Russia, and yes even California but the permitting process in CA is very onerous and the term fast track doesn't exist there. . Japan and Russia use nuclear desalination techniques with costs surprisingly competitive to building reservoirs and long pipelines into the mountains.

By my dated reports there were over 10,000 commercial desalination plants globally, but my reports go back a decade so the number is likely much higher today.

As they are saying in CA now, "we dither and wither" as the regulators stew over desalination.
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:15 PM   #36
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Actually desalination is quite common as Marin notes. More than Saudi Arabia.
And even Florida has at least one with a capacity if up to 25 million gallons a day aided by waste heat.

Tampa Bay Seawater Desalination Plant


EDIT: Wow, was I ever wrong. There are many.


As of 2014, South Florida has 36 brackish and two seawater desalination plants operating with three brackish water plants under construction. The brackish and seawater desalination plants have the capacity to produce 269 million gallons of potable water per day.


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Old 11-09-2014, 01:08 AM   #37
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It did not rain in Seattle today yet. But it's on the way.
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Old 11-09-2014, 01:23 AM   #38
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Old 11-09-2014, 06:31 AM   #39
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Well, if you price that water at or above the cost to produce, wouldn't it then be up to the consumer to decide if it was "worth it" to them?

The problem is the farmers expect to be provided with many acre feet of water at almost no cost.

The problem with farming in a desert .

Cadillac Desert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_DesertWikipedia


Cadillac Desert, by Marc Reisner, is a 1986 book published by Viking (ISBN 0-14-017824-4) about land development and water policy in the western United ...


Cadillac desert - PBS summary

www.ldeo.columbia.edu/.../cadillac_...Lamont–Doherty Earth Observatory


Mulholland's Dream, the first episode in the four-part CADILLAC DESERT series, tells the incredible story of how the hunt for and the exploitation of water ...
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Old 11-09-2014, 05:20 PM   #40
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It did not rain in Seattle today yet. But it's on the way.
No worries. It rained/is raining in Bellingham.
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