Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-01-2012, 02:22 PM   #1
Guru
 
Portuguese's Avatar
 
City: Salvador - BA
Country: Brazil
Vessel Name: Rainha Jannota
Vessel Model: Curruira 46
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 662
Send a message via MSN to Portuguese
Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Greetings Gents

*

As the finance department is kind of weak, I am looking into the traditional Teleflex Heavy Duty Capilano Steering System to be installed in Rainha Jannota. The system is good for dual station and it looks strong enough to face harship.

Does any of you guys have anything to say about the choice?

Thank you in advance

Portuguese
__________________
Advertisement

Portuguese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 02:58 PM   #2
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

I would go with the three line hydraulic system as the third smaller line makes it easy to bleed the system.* Teleflex does make a 3 line system.*

http://www.teleflexmarine.com/produc.../hynautic-new/
__________________

Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 03:05 AM   #3
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,957
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

The Capilano system has proven dependable in yachts and work boats for years.You won't be disappointed.
Sailor of Fortune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 04:08 AM   #4
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

I much prefer the style where an engine driven pump provides the Hyd pressure and the wheel is really just a fancy valve .

The advantage is the autopilot only has to sire 1amp solenoids , a far cry from starting and stopping a heavy amp pump every few seconds.

As a belt and suspenders guy a great choice would be the old standard , a chain over a sprocket and cables over proper large radius sheves to a rudder quadrant.

Concept here is bulletproof reliability , and ease of repair. Look at Edison for sizes and routing drawings.

A huge advantage with this setup is a tiller $350 autopilot will work fine , again no maint , tiny cost and the ability to carry a spare entire AP system , with 5 second insatalation
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 05:02 AM   #5
Guru
 
swampu's Avatar


 
City: Biloxi, MS
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Cajun Rose
Vessel Model: Biloxi Lugger
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,144
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Quote:
FF wrote:
I much prefer the style where an engine driven pump provides the Hyd pressure and the wheel is really just a fancy valve .

The advantage is the autopilot only has to sire 1amp solenoids , a far cry from starting and stopping a heavy amp pump every few seconds.

As a belt and suspenders guy a great choice would be the old standard , a chain over a sprocket and cables over proper large radius sheves to a rudder quadrant.

Concept here is bulletproof reliability , and ease of repair. Look at Edison for sizes and routing drawings.

A huge advantage with this setup is a tiller $350 autopilot will work fine , again no maint , tiny cost and the ability to carry a spare entire AP system , with 5 second insatalation
Looks like FF and I are on the same page. *Like he said chains, gear boxes and long 1" shafts are my thing. *There are many advantages and many more disadvantages to different steering systems. *I actually spent a year trying to decide what to install. *FF and a few others made it fairly clear the simple and ease of*maintenance*always trumps*gizmo's*and gadgets. *My only issue with the engine driven steering was what engine to put it on and they all work "well" at low rpm but I would need it to work exceptionally "well" at low rpm. *That's when most of the rudder is needed. *Good luck and also what kind of steering is on the boat now?
swampu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 05:56 AM   #6
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Fred I have chain and rod steering. I was looking one day to put a Raymarine Wheelpilot behind the wheel, a la yacht set-up, but you mention a tiller-pilot. Where would you connect one of those to a chain, rod, and quadrant system? To the quadrant I would guess, but that means it would not be taking advantage of the gearing in the system from the wheel..? Would a tiller-pilot cope with that...?
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 08:15 AM   #7
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: Saint Augustine, Fl.
Country: Port of St Augustine ,FL
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,957
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Rod and chain is nice but like any system it has its own drawbacks. u-joints and pillow blocks need maintanance and aren't free at construction. A Capalano manual hydraulic system can hardly be called "gizmos' and gadgets".
I have had both systems and wouldn't change out either for the other, however on a new build I'll go hydraulic any day.
Sailor of Fortune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 08:25 AM   #8
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Quote:
Sailor of Fortune wrote:
The Capilano system has proven dependable in yachts and work boats for years.You won't be disappointed.
*X2
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:40 AM   #9
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Buy the big helm pump, less turns.*I wish the Eagle helm*pump was bigger.* *I would not have a engine powered pump because if the engine quits, you lost your steering, especially if you are planning on installing a get home/auxiliary power.*Best to keep it simple and separate.***Also have an emergency manual tiller that can be attached to the rudder is also recomended.* If all else fails, you*can still steer manually.*

A*rudder indicator which is nice espcially with a single so you know where the rudder is.*
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:44 AM   #10
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Quote:
Phil Fill wrote:
*Also have an emergency manual tiller that can be attached to the rudder is also recomended.* If all else fails, you*can still steer manually.*

A*rudder indicator which is nice espcially with a single so you know where the rudder is.*
* * * ** Good advice and I have both.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 11:49 AM   #11
Guru
 
Portuguese's Avatar
 
City: Salvador - BA
Country: Brazil
Vessel Name: Rainha Jannota
Vessel Model: Curruira 46
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 662
Send a message via MSN to Portuguese
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Gents

*

...Pardon my ignorance. In case of using a autopilot, does the autopilot pump replaces de steering system pump?

In other words, the autopilot pump receives the hoses from the valve in the steering wheels and then connects to the cilynder?

Is that it?
Portuguese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 12:31 PM   #12
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Quote:
Phil Fill wrote:
A*rudder indicator which is nice espcially with a single so you know where the rudder is.*
*I highly recommend a rudder indicator too.* I'd be "lost" without it.* On my panel, it is just above the gear-shift/throttle control.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	helmsman-1.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	158.5 KB
ID:	10408  
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 12:41 PM   #13
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Quote:
Phil Fill wrote:
*

...**Also have an emergency manual tiller that can be attached to the rudder is also recomended.* If all else fails, you*can still steer manually.*.
*I'm not sure how a manual tiller would be attached here.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	steering mechanism.jpg
Views:	150
Size:	101.1 KB
ID:	10409  
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 12:47 PM   #14
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Don't worry, when that hose clamp holding the RAI arm breaks you will have plenty of room to fit a tiller.

Just pull the pin that connects the steering cylinder to the rudder arm first.
RickB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 01:32 PM   #15
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Quote:
Portuguese wrote:
Gents

*

...Pardon my ignorance. In case of using a autopilot, does the autopilot pump replaces de steering system pump?

In other words, the autopilot pump receives the hoses from the valve in the steering wheels and then connects to the cilynder?

Is that it?
*

The auto pilot pump is an addition to the helm pump.* When out and about the auto pilot steers the boat, and I make course correct with the auto pilot as the helm and auto pilot tend to work against each other. So*I do not touch the helm until the auto pilot is turned off.* So you could steer with the helm*or the auto pilot.

Basically Yes.*I think its T into the line?*

I had a new improved specially made tiller and modified added to the rudder post as the original tiller was*not*stout and to funky.* Since we can not see from the stern deck, the tiller would be tied down and we would steer with the bow thruster.*

So we can steer with the helm, auto pilot, emergency tiller and/or the bowthruster.* What ever gets*us back the DOCK.*Back up for the back up.*

*
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 01:54 PM   #16
Guru
 
Portuguese's Avatar
 
City: Salvador - BA
Country: Brazil
Vessel Name: Rainha Jannota
Vessel Model: Curruira 46
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 662
Send a message via MSN to Portuguese
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

...Back up for the back up....I like the sound of that!
Portuguese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 02:26 PM   #17
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Quote:
markpierce wrote: I'm not sure how a manual tiller would be attached here.
*Mine is a bent pipe (90 degrees) that serves as the tiller, and has a welded socket on the end. It is stowed in the lazarette, close to the rudder post.


-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Friday 2nd of March 2012 03:28:28 PM
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	socket.jpg
Views:	52
Size:	83.3 KB
ID:	10413  
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 05:08 AM   #18
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
RE: Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

" Mine is a bent pipe (90 degrees) that serves as the tiller, and has a welded socket on the end. It is stowed in the lazarette, close to the rudder post."

Good thinking esp if there is a removable deck plate over the rudder post , so the emergency tiller is above deck level.

Far easier to operate or at least tie off till back in port.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 05:17 AM   #19
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,524
Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

"To the quadrant I would guess, but that means it would not be taking advantage of the gearing in the system from the wheel..? Would a tiller-pilot cope with that...?"

*

Too much friction and mass back thru the mechanical systems ,the wheel is the attach spot.

A tiller pilot MUST have the wheel return to the same spot with the rudder.

This is why no usual hydraulic setup (the wheel IS the pump) works for long, internal leakage and eventually "centered' isnt centered.

The mechanical setups do not have this disadvantage, although the suffer the increased power required to operate the chain , gears and rods.

Since the engine is on ,,hardly a problem.

To figgure if you can simply add a tillerpilot to your wheel , steer and see if 4 inches of movement either way when on course will hold course.

If it does the tiller pilot will work , but remenber these are portible units , so you might be able to borrow one from a local rag bagger and see it work.

If more distance than 4* (L&R)inches is required to stay on course there are wheel steering setups for sail, boats that mount usually behind the wheel and drive a belt longer distances.

*


-- Edited by FF on Saturday 3rd of March 2012 06:23:24 AM
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 08:18 AM   #20
Guru
 
Steve's Avatar
 
City: Thibodaux, Louisiana
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Gumbo
Vessel Model: 2003 Monk 36
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,607
Rainha Jannota - Choosing the Steering System

Capilano on present and previous boats no problems at all, knocking on wood asi I type.
Steve W


-- Edited by Steve on Saturday 3rd of March 2012 09:19:53 AM
__________________

Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Building Rainha Jannota in Brazil Portuguese Custom Builds & Refit Projects 10 04-09-2013 05:03 AM
Flipping over Rainha Jannota - the movie! Portuguese General Discussion 20 12-22-2012 04:05 AM
Rainha Jannota's heart Portuguese General Discussion 4 02-18-2012 01:37 PM
Rainha Jannota Turned Up Side Up II Portuguese General Discussion 9 01-31-2012 12:11 AM
Turning Rainha Jannota Up Side Up Portuguese General Discussion 0 01-29-2012 10:14 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012