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Old 11-23-2019, 04:20 PM   #81
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The radar, depthsounder, charts, engine instruments etc are things that I my eyes survey routinely as I pilot the boat. If you've been boating for a long time, it's an automatic function to glance at those tools in addition to looking ahead, to the sides and rear.

The radar provides me with an overhead view of all the vessels and others things around me increasing my awareness of what's coming at me.

If you think looking at the radar is a distraction or decreases situational awareness, leave it on all the time and you will get used to it and glance at it instead of staring at it to try to decipher what is on the screen.
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Old 11-23-2019, 07:33 PM   #82
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You are talking to the wrong guy.

I know how easily and often situational awareness is broken by the most simple things.

The most qualified of people with some of the world's most sophisticated equipment and training lose situational awareness all too frequently.

To me radar usually adds so little situational awareness on a bright sunny day in confined waters, all it CAN do is be a distraction .... TO ME...maybe not everyone.

As I posted, in some more complex traffic situations or open waters, sure it canh help, especially guard zones with audible warning.

But the vast majority of where I boat and most of the time, nope, just a distraction.

Plus as mentioned, not all electronic suites are set up the same and Radar viewing is not as easy/ convenient as others due to helm design and other factors. Another risk vs gain situation.
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Old 11-23-2019, 08:00 PM   #83
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Here in the PNW, the waters are for the most part fairly open. We don't have too many long narrow , shallow passages like on the waterways of the eastern US.

We do have have islands, bays, inlets, rocks and other obstructions so all the boats are going in every direction. And during July and August there are so many boats, having a birds eye view of your surroundings, via radar is indispensable.

When it gets really congested, like the San Juan's in summer, I man the radar and have my wife drive.

I don't flush mount electronics. Mine are arranged to inable a quick glance of multiple instruments
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:15 PM   #84
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On is good health for your radar apart from the obvious benefits with it running
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Old 11-23-2019, 09:56 PM   #85
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On is good health for your radar apart from the obvious benefits with it running
Based on what data/info?
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Old 11-23-2019, 10:03 PM   #86
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I agree with post 82.

This boat and one other has/had radar and both have the display is in the lower helm station where it does not get used or seen by this operator. When the boat is moving I am up on the CB, day or night. So asked but not answered, does the radar screen on CB affect night vision? Maybe it dims down, must check one day.
I may have to move it up top to find out if I am ever going to turn it on.
Night vision served me well in the SAR days and now travel at night as easily as daytime.
Chartplotters have come a long, long way since the paper charts on the nav table under red lights. The CB chartplotter with sounder can dim down barely lit to ID the course taken. The eyes still see a log or crab float on a starlit night.
Curiosity mostly to have the radar screen to glance at to see if anything is being missed.
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Old 11-24-2019, 06:36 AM   #87
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I guess I just don't see it.

I am guessing 90 plus percent of US boats don't have Radar or the owners don't either turn it on or can't use it well enough to improve their situational awareness.

Yet there are so few collisions in comparison. Sure there are collisions, but would Radar really have helped them? Probably the horror collisions we read about with deaths, but most of them are at night, high speed, and drinking....and sure Radar at night is much more gain versus risk of distraction.

For those that are practiced and use it all the time, I can see why. For those just starting out with it, think long and hard about using it solo in areas where the chessboard changes dramatically and quickly. Best to have a second, experienced set of lookout eyes in that case.
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Old 11-24-2019, 07:49 AM   #88
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Yes, we do lose awareness from time to time. Even momentary lapses can lead to an unfortunate result. Entering a river off a bay in Georgia last year, well, the marked channel was very narrow. The wind was blowing from the port beam at 30 mph. I looked down at my plotter for a few seconds too long, no more than 15 seconds, and I was shoved off course out of the channel. I looked up, saw the danger, tried to recover but it was too late. Onto a shoal we went with both the wind and the current driving the boat relentlessly against the shoal. We and the boat were in no danger but we couldn't get off that shoal without assistance.
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I have bags and bags of tools on my boat...but "experience" has taught me which ones I need to bring for each job.

Losing situational awareness is an insidious thing.

It took hundreds of years till crew coordination training and risk management programs were developed to overcome that very issue. It also takes regular practice..... Hardly what the average recreational boater including me does on a regular basis.

All those years in the rescue and assistance business proved to me that boaters from beginners to very experienced ones lose situational awareness on a regular basis.

Plus.. again ....90% of collsion avoidance is not getting close in the first place and avoiding constant bearing decreasing range. Absolute distance is pretty irrelavent in the big scheme of things to a small boat in good or better boating conditions.
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Old 11-24-2019, 07:52 AM   #89
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And when fog pops up unexpectedly and unforecast, what does one do? Drop anchor in a channel? Keep going and pray?
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Agreed. No radar at all on my boat, so I avoid night running for the most part. And if visibility is such that I'd need radar to navigate safely, I'm not going anywhere. Radar would be nice to have, but for a lot of my daytime running, I can't say it would really give me much useful information that my eyes don't already gather.
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Old 11-24-2019, 08:04 AM   #90
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Old school...and now it's really easy with chartplotters because the navigation part is so easy at least in some areas.

Sound signals worked for eons....

OK, mostly kidding.....only it works just fine without Radar in some situations....but there are too many who don't follow the Navrules intent with speed, signaling, etc.

Though my first year coming down the Chesapeake, the fog was supposed to lift in an hour...we'll it didn't. Fortunately a pretty cool rtug captain played traffic control for a few of us radarless pleasure boats and a couple commercial work boats too for a couple hours.
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Old 11-24-2019, 08:33 AM   #91
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And when fog pops up unexpectedly and unforecast, what does one do? Drop anchor in a channel? Keep going and pray?

That one depends on where you boat. In some areas, it's a real concern and boating in fog is an unavoidable fact of life. In the areas I boat, not so much. Fog doesn't really appear that suddenly without warning around here. And usually if there's fog, it's there in the morning and then burns off.
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Old 11-24-2019, 11:10 AM   #92
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And when fog pops up unexpectedly and unforecast, what does one do? Drop anchor in a channel? Keep going and pray?
Compass, depth sounder and paper chart along with local knowledge.
True story. One day planned for fishing we departed marina with another boat on our heels into the fog because it always lifts by noon. Not this day. after an hour we arrived at destination (found the bell buoy), began fishing for about four hours, other boat always in sight.
Time to head back in. An hour later we were both back at the dock.
So from this I learned that 50% of the boaters that day can find their way in the fog.
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:31 PM   #93
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Used mine yesterday, on a nice crisp (low 60s) clear sunny day off shore NE Florida.

Why?

Shrimpers! Dozens of them! They troll in rectangles and are constantly changing direction. I chose to go outside of them but sometimes outside quickly becomes inside!!

Here is nine of them within a three mile radius.

Then, two miles off shore, there were a couple of dozen of the smaller commercial guys on a shrimp run.
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Old 11-25-2019, 08:29 PM   #94
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Wise choice. I would too.

And this reminds me of the night we passed through a floating city of sampans/junks in the South China Sea. We saw the inexplicable glow growing in intensity for miles, and it extended for as far as the eye and radar could see to port and stbd. You might say the wise choice was to do anything but go through, but such was not my decision - I was just driving the thing for the captain who ordered me to do it. No moon, flat, breathless calm. Bridge radar repeater was reduced to the absolute minimum range, speed to ahead 1/3 (5 knots, bare steerage for a DDG) and grease pencil sharpened and run back and forth across the lighted plotting head like a teletype to reveal dozens of lines of dots coming at us. As I picked a path through, I once took a second to actually look outside (LOTS of others were doing so for me) and to this day vividly recall the silent upturned Asiatic faces reflected in Coleman style lanterns on bobbing unpainted wooden vessels just yards from our sides as we slipped quietly through. No bumps, no nets or lines snagged, no yelling, just quiet acceptance of what was. 1971 was an interesting year.
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Old 11-25-2019, 11:01 PM   #95
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Nothing surpasses Radar for finding your spot in a busy anchorage. I always find that my visual will put me too close or too far, but Radar will put me in the right spot.
Especially at night!
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Old 11-27-2019, 05:38 PM   #96
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Radar

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How often do you actually use your radar?

For running the AICW, Coastal Cruising, crossing the Stream?

We rarely turn it on when running the AICW, but do have it on when offshore even running just off shore inlet to inlet. And always when crossing.

I have always been aware of the fact that when you have a radar you "must use it," but never do in the close confines of the AICW. I have decided that to do so is really not appropriate.

What do you guys do?

From DHS Nav Center:

"11. Am I required to have Radar? Radar is not required on vessels under 1600 GT (33 CFR 164.35), however, Rule 7 states that proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational. In other words, whoever has one must use it. The Navigation Rules are not meant to discourage the use of any device, rather they expect prudent mariners to avail themselves of all available means appropriate...as to make full appraisal of the situation (Rule 5), e.g. the use of radar. At issue is whether the use of radar is appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and that is a determination made by the Master; and, ultimately decided by a trier of fact.

Should you be in a collision how would a judge/jury rule on your contention that the use of radar was impracticable (due to electrical drain, crew shortages, etc.)? Also, if a collision does occur, then there was obviously a risk of collision beforehand. Could the determination of that risk have been made sooner with the use of radar? It is difficult to answer such questions because the circumstances of each case are different.

More importantly, remember that Rule 7 specifies that assumptions shall not be made on the basis of scanty information, especially scanty radar information."
Totally depends on the type of boating you do. If you do long water crossings or if you experience a lot of fog or if you spend a lot of time cruising at night, then you probably need a radar. I don't do that. I spend my time in a relatively small area, only get underway during daylight and spend my time in protected waters so I don't even have a radar. Hell, I used to fly an airplane from Okinawa to the Philippines on nothing more than a wet compass since TACAN was useless after we passed Taiwan so I actually think radar is rather overrated. When you consider the horizon your radar can see from a height of 20 ft or so above the water, the average boater really doesn't gain much by having one. Again, depends on the type of boating you do.
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Old 11-27-2019, 07:37 PM   #97
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Bryant, I may have asked you this before? Where do you keep your boat?
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Old 11-27-2019, 08:43 PM   #98
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Bryant, I may have asked you this before? Where do you keep your boat?
Hi. My boat is in Pensacola. I’d like to get together.
Bryant.
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Old 11-27-2019, 08:44 PM   #99
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Hi. My boat is in Pensacola. I’d like to get together.
Bryant.
You're in Fleming Island?
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Old 11-27-2019, 08:48 PM   #100
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Yes, I live in Fleming Island. My boat is in Pensacola.
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