Radar Use

[psneeld]

RADAR use if fitted it NOT mandatory as far as I know....it is up to the captain and his definition of "prevailing circumstances". The USCG addresses it in the NAVRULES FAQs. Even though the one sentence says you must use it, the rest of the discussion is contradictory and is NOT what the rule actually says (thus the "must" is really opinion in this writing, not law).


11. Am I required to have Radar? Radar is not required on vessels under 1600 GT (33 CFR 164.35), however, Rule 7 states that proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational. In other words, whoever has one must use it. The Navigation Rules are not meant to discourage the use of any device, rather they expect prudent mariners to avail themselves of all available means appropriate...as to make full appraisal of the situation (Rule 5), e.g. the use of radar. At issue is whether the use of radar is appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and that is a determination made by the Master; and, ultimately decided by a trier of fact.

Should you be in a collision how would a judge/jury rule on your contention that the use of radar was impracticable (due to electrical drain, crew shortages, etc.)? Also, if a collision does occur, then there was obviously a risk of collision beforehand. Could the determination of that risk have been made sooner with the use of radar? It is difficult to answer such questions because the circumstances of each case are different.

More importantly, remember that Rule 7 specifies that assumptions shall not be made on the basis of scanty information, especially scanty radar information.




https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=navRulesFAQ#0.3_11

 

[menzies]

The IRPCS (International Regulations for the Prevention of Collision at Sea) Rule 7 states:

"Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of detected objects."

Hence, before casting off and after mooring up, radar must be 'on' to comply. However, some local inland waters bye-laws may have a differing rule although I've never found one.

Not only does seamanship call for radar to be on and used (...proper use...') it hones the skill of the user for when it becomes vital to use, in which case Rule 19 becomes the absolute in collision avoidance.

For an explanation of Rule 19 and how to use your radar in restricted visibility was published in the last Passage Maker - I admit, I was the author!

Has "proper" ever been defined in a court of law as meaning always on? Or on when the captain deems proper?

 

[psneeld]

While one court can make it precedence, another one might find differently.... I am guessing like dissenting opinions.

 

[Codger2]

In my earlier post (#18) I mentioned the benefits of using radar as a rear view mirror while helming the boat. I now have the benefit of using it to compliment my watch stander when I go below for a coffee or head call. By running an HDMI cable from the MFD on the bridge to the salon's smart TV, I can now augment the fly bridge watch stander on a 43" TV! I just love this stuff as I approach 80!

 

[rolomart3]

Here in the PNW, we turn it on as soon as we hit open water. Unless there is fog, then it is turned on as soon as we untie.

Have it on all the time and you become acclimated to it's operation and more comfortable when fog descends. During the day, radar is used for calculating crossing situations if the other boat does not transmit AIS. And to see what's behind and all around without turning my head.

But where you are, is there fog?

Must use the radar at night?

Ditto and have it on always at night because, in addition to other vessels nearby, it shows the coastline, obstacles, rocks, riprap, bridge columns and navaids.

 

[syjos]

Ditto and have it on always at night because, in addition to other vessels nearby, it shows the coastline, obstacles, rocks, riprap, bridge columns and navaids.

Back before electronic charting became affordable and accurate, we used the radar as a plotter as you described.

We have separate displays for plotter and radar. Radar overlay on plotters is not as useful as advertised. Separate screens are easier to decipher. Too many years looking at two screens.

 

[JohnA]

I generally turn on thee Radar. then I know how to use it when I need it.
Boatingbuoy
Cedarville MI

 

[rgano]

Has "proper" ever been defined in a court of law as meaning always on? Or on when the captain deems proper?

To misquote Forest Gump, "Proper is as proper does" and people who quote the COLREGS as justification for claiming the radar must be on at all times underway, just do not completely understand the rule. Back before that rule was ever written, I spent a lot of hours on watch on a destroyer with the operable radar OFF because the captain wanted no give-away emissions while passing unfriendly coastlines, day and night. He would have probably considered it proper to switch it on had we entered rain/fog. Once the radar rule was added, we all had to get smart about the implications.

 

[Comodave]

To misquote Forest Gump, "Proper is as proper does" and people who quote the COLREGS as justification for claiming the radar must be on at all times underway, just do not completely understand the rule. Back before that rule was ever written, I spent a lot of hours on watch on a destroyer with the operable radar OFF because the captain wanted no give-away emissions while passing unfriendly coastlines, day and night. He would have probably considered it proper to switch it on had we entered rain/fog. Once the radar rule was added, we all had to get smart about the implications.

This is a bit of apples and oranges, none of us are military and worried about emissions. The bottom line question is why would you not have it on any time you are underway? Are you afraid of wearing it out? It is another tool that may possibly make you safer. And if it doesn’t make you safer, what does it hurt to have it on???

 

[rgano]

The military comment was not made to apply to small civilian craft; it was made to show that it is quite safe to pilot vessels without radar in appropriate weather.

A radar spinning around overhead on a clear day here does not inherently make me safer when underway in my boat. Because traffic is far more dense, including hard to see kayaks, on a nice day, paying close attention to radar for collision avoidance purposes will have the opposite effect around here. Radar properly used by a properly knowledgeable person running at proper (safe) speed in conditions warranting radar use does make one safer on the water. It's a fine difference, but if I see some closed up pleasure boat coming at me on a clear day with an open array radar spinning, I will likely be watching him more closely than one where I can see the skipper on the fly bridge looking around.

I use my radar when it will add to safety afloat.

 

[psneeld]

When it is day, CAVU, and in miles of twisting, turning, shallow, ICW.....

I consider it a distraction more than a benefit to avoid a collision.


Then again, maybe it's just my experience, but except at night or limited vis, in small boats like most of ours....I never had trouble avoiding a collision just using my eyeballs.

Heck the CFRs only require RADAR to be fitted on vessels greater than 1600gross tons with a few exceptions.

Yeah, back in the day when it first started getting to be good on small boats I thought it was neat. Thousands of more hours underway slowly dinminished it's novelty.

 

[Comodave]

I am not saying to focus on the radar when the weather is good. However having it on enables me to check what I see with my eyes on the radar, for distance, etc. however if the radar is off it takes too long to power it up. Just because the radar is on doesn’t mean that you have to even look at it, only if you want to look at it.

 

[psneeld]

So if I don"t have to look at it to avoid collisions, then whether it's on or off is immaterial.

 

[Conrad]

Once the engine is started, all electronics get turned on, including radar. I pretty much only use it as an overlay on the plotter, since on the Simrad 4G the plotter is set to north up (my choice) while the radar will only do heading up when viewed on it's own. Too confusing to use them split screen.
As mentioned, the benefits are significant; good rearview awareness, although not all vessels, even in the 40-50' range provide a good return, and situational awareness when anchoring are two areas that stand out.
But because I only use the radar as an overlay, I often turn it off briefly when close to shore as the return obscures the shoreline definition on the plotter.

 

[Comodave]

So if I don"t have to look at it to avoid collisions, then whether it's on or off is immaterial.

No, what I mean is that you don’t have to loose situational awareness by concentrating on the radar in good weather, but if you want to check distance to a target, if it is on then it is simple to do. However if it is off it takes too long to warm up so the radar is of no use. But if you are set on keeping it off, then keep it off. I see no reason to not have all of your tools available for immediate use.

 

[psneeld]

I have bags and bags of tools on my boat...but "experience" has taught me which ones I need to bring for each job.

Losing situational awareness is an insidious thing.

It took hundreds of years till crew coordination training and risk management programs were developed to overcome that very issue. It also takes regular practice..... Hardly what the average recreational boater including me does on a regular basis.

All those years in the rescue and assistance business proved to me that boaters from beginners to very experienced ones lose situational awareness on a regular basis.

Plus.. again ....90% of collsion avoidance is not getting close in the first place and avoiding constant bearing decreasing range. Absolute distance is pretty irrelavent in the big scheme of things to a small boat in good or better boating conditions.

 

[rgano]

No, what I mean is that you don’t have to loose situational awareness by concentrating on the radar in good weather, but if you want to check distance to a target, if it is on then it is simple to do. However if it is off it takes too long to warm up so the radar is of no use. But if you are set on keeping it off, then keep it off. I see no reason to not have all of your tools available for immediate use.

My Furuno MFD, which is ALWAYS on for navigation charts and depth sounding when I am underway is also where my radar displays. I can push a couple of buttons and have radar in about 20 seconds if I need to range on something to the accuracy of which you speak. Haven't found the need since I bought the boat in Jun 2015, but it's there. So in one sense, part of my radar is always on.

 

[rgano]

When it is day, CAVU, and in miles of twisting, turning, shallow, ICW.....

I consider it a distraction more than a benefit to avoid a collision.


Then again, maybe it's just my experience, but except at night or limited vis, in small boats like most of ours....I never had trouble avoiding a collision just using my eyeballs.

Heck the CFRs only require RADAR to be fitted on vessels greater than 1600gross tons with a few exceptions.

Yeah, back in the day when it first started getting to be good on small boats I thought it was neat. Thousands of more hours underway slowly diminished it's novelty.

Yep, yes, amen

 

[rslifkin]

I have bags and bags of tools on my boat...but "experience" has taught me which ones I need to bring for each job.

Losing situational awareness is an insidious thing.

It took hundreds of years till crew coordination training and risk management programs were developed to overcome that very issue. It also takes regular practice..... Hardly what the average recreational boater including me does on a regular basis.

All those years in the rescue and assistance business proved to me that boaters from beginners to very experienced ones lose situational awareness on a regular basis.

Plus.. again ....90% of collsion avoidance is not getting close in the first place and avoiding constant bearing decreasing range. Absolute distance is pretty irrelavent in the big scheme of things to a small boat in good or better boating conditions.

Agreed. No radar at all on my boat, so I avoid night running for the most part. And if visibility is such that I'd need radar to navigate safely, I'm not going anywhere. Radar would be nice to have, but for a lot of my daytime running, I can't say it would really give me much useful information that my eyes don't already gather.

 

[psneeld]

When you need Radar, best to have it and be good at it. No argument from me.

But using the navrules in ths case just seems silly....sure there are busy commercial areas where it truly helps ( if AIS hasn't already told you). I see it as an issue forl arge, hard to manuever vessels...but not us.

An broad daylight, clear vis and somewhat confined waters? Can't even relate to feeling the need for it.

 

[syjos]

The radar, depthsounder, charts, engine instruments etc are things that I my eyes survey routinely as I pilot the boat. If you've been boating for a long time, it's an automatic function to glance at those tools in addition to looking ahead, to the sides and rear.

The radar provides me with an overhead view of all the vessels and others things around me increasing my awareness of what's coming at me.

If you think looking at the radar is a distraction or decreases situational awareness, leave it on all the time and you will get used to it and glance at it instead of staring at it to try to decipher what is on the screen.

 

[psneeld]

You are talking to the wrong guy.

I know how easily and often situational awareness is broken by the most simple things.

The most qualified of people with some of the world's most sophisticated equipment and training lose situational awareness all too frequently.

To me radar usually adds so little situational awareness on a bright sunny day in confined waters, all it CAN do is be a distraction .... TO ME...maybe not everyone.

As I posted, in some more complex traffic situations or open waters, sure it canh help, especially guard zones with audible warning.

But the vast majority of where I boat and most of the time, nope, just a distraction.

Plus as mentioned, not all electronic suites are set up the same and Radar viewing is not as easy/ convenient as others due to helm design and other factors. Another risk vs gain situation.

 

[syjos]

Here in the PNW, the waters are for the most part fairly open. We don't have too many long narrow , shallow passages like on the waterways of the eastern US.

We do have have islands, bays, inlets, rocks and other obstructions so all the boats are going in every direction. And during July and August there are so many boats, having a birds eye view of your surroundings, via radar is indispensable.

When it gets really congested, like the San Juan's in summer, I man the radar and have my wife drive.

I don't flush mount electronics. Mine are arranged to inable a quick glance of multiple instruments

 

[Phil23]

On is good health for your radar apart from the obvious benefits with it running

 

[menzies]

On is good health for your radar apart from the obvious benefits with it running

Based on what data/info?

 

[SteveK]

I agree with post 82.

This boat and one other has/had radar and both have the display is in the lower helm station where it does not get used or seen by this operator. When the boat is moving I am up on the CB, day or night. So asked but not answered, does the radar screen on CB affect night vision? Maybe it dims down, must check one day.
I may have to move it up top to find out if I am ever going to turn it on.
Night vision served me well in the SAR days and now travel at night as easily as daytime.
Chartplotters have come a long, long way since the paper charts on the nav table under red lights. The CB chartplotter with sounder can dim down barely lit to ID the course taken. The eyes still see a log or crab float on a starlit night.
Curiosity mostly to have the radar screen to glance at to see if anything is being missed.

 

[psneeld]

I guess I just don't see it.

I am guessing 90 plus percent of US boats don't have Radar or the owners don't either turn it on or can't use it well enough to improve their situational awareness.

Yet there are so few collisions in comparison. Sure there are collisions, but would Radar really have helped them? Probably the horror collisions we read about with deaths, but most of them are at night, high speed, and drinking....and sure Radar at night is much more gain versus risk of distraction.

For those that are practiced and use it all the time, I can see why. For those just starting out with it, think long and hard about using it solo in areas where the chessboard changes dramatically and quickly. Best to have a second, experienced set of lookout eyes in that case.

 

[catalinajack]

Yes, we do lose awareness from time to time. Even momentary lapses can lead to an unfortunate result. Entering a river off a bay in Georgia last year, well, the marked channel was very narrow. The wind was blowing from the port beam at 30 mph. I looked down at my plotter for a few seconds too long, no more than 15 seconds, and I was shoved off course out of the channel. I looked up, saw the danger, tried to recover but it was too late. Onto a shoal we went with both the wind and the current driving the boat relentlessly against the shoal. We and the boat were in no danger but we couldn't get off that shoal without assistance.

I have bags and bags of tools on my boat...but "experience" has taught me which ones I need to bring for each job.

Losing situational awareness is an insidious thing.

It took hundreds of years till crew coordination training and risk management programs were developed to overcome that very issue. It also takes regular practice..... Hardly what the average recreational boater including me does on a regular basis.

All those years in the rescue and assistance business proved to me that boaters from beginners to very experienced ones lose situational awareness on a regular basis.

Plus.. again ....90% of collsion avoidance is not getting close in the first place and avoiding constant bearing decreasing range. Absolute distance is pretty irrelavent in the big scheme of things to a small boat in good or better boating conditions.

 

[catalinajack]

And when fog pops up unexpectedly and unforecast, what does one do? Drop anchor in a channel? Keep going and pray?

Agreed. No radar at all on my boat, so I avoid night running for the most part. And if visibility is such that I'd need radar to navigate safely, I'm not going anywhere. Radar would be nice to have, but for a lot of my daytime running, I can't say it would really give me much useful information that my eyes don't already gather.

 

[psneeld]

Old school...and now it's really easy with chartplotters because the navigation part is so easy at least in some areas.

Sound signals worked for eons....

OK, mostly kidding.....only it works just fine without Radar in some situations....but there are too many who don't follow the Navrules intent with speed, signaling, etc.

Though my first year coming down the Chesapeake, the fog was supposed to lift in an hour...we'll it didn't. Fortunately a pretty cool rtug captain played traffic control for a few of us radarless pleasure boats and a couple commercial work boats too for a couple hours.