Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-31-2016, 04:58 PM   #1
Veteran Member
 
City: Florida
Vessel Name: Brigadoon
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 32
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 38
Questions

Questions from a sailor thinking Trawler:
On boats with multiple steering stations do you have to disengage/engage when you change locations or do they mirror each other. I'm talking steering, throttle and forward/reverse.

AC/DC refrigeration:
On these multiple current refrigeration units are there compressors that run off both AC & DC, two compressors or an internal inverter/converter.

Electric stoves:
Why instead of propane. Are they initially cheaper, are people afraid of propane or ??? I ask because I can't see firing up the genset to make a cup of coffee.

These questions may appear dumb but coming from the sailing world these questions are all mysteries to me. Have your fun but I hope in the end I get some answers. Thanks
Adagio43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 06:00 PM   #2
Guru
 
Steve's Avatar
 
City: Thibodaux, Louisiana
Vessel Name: Gumbo
Vessel Model: 2003 Monk 36
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,882
On Gumbo one can operate from upper or lower helm without engaging or disengaging the other, just push or pull either throttle or shift knob.

Fridge, I'm not sure on this one so won't say.

We have propane cooktop and, seldom used, oven, I believe quite a few people are afraid of or dislike using gas so have electric or their boat came with electric stove. We also have a microwave it can operate off of the inverter same as the coffee maker so we can use them without cranking up the genset.
__________________
Steve W.
https://mvgumbo.blogspot.com/
Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 06:09 PM   #3
Guru
 
City: Full Time Cruising East Coast
Vessel Name: Meridian
Vessel Model: Krogen-42
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,014
120/12 v fridges work on either with an inverter. I think you would be better with 12 v only and a good battery charger. I would bet that it is 90% propane for stoves otherwise you also need generator. I had a full size RV propane refrigerator in my last trawler. 20# tank would last 10 to 15 days depending on the outside temperature.


Sent from my iPhone using Trawler Forum
__________________
-------------------------
Terry
Meridian
KK-42097
meridian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 06:30 PM   #4
Guru
 
ulysses's Avatar
 
City: Gulf Shores, Ala.
Vessel Name: Ulysses
Vessel Model: Romsdal 1963
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 878
Ulysses only has one steering station so I will not address that aspect of your questions.

She has a propane stove and oven, microwave, toaster, and coffee maker which run off of inverter, generator, and/or shore power.

Refrigeration runs off of inverter for a short period or generator. It usually requires about one hour of run time twice a day (cold plate type).

I do maintain redundant coffee making abilities with either stove or coffee maker.
ulysses is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 06:54 PM   #5
TF Site Team/Forum Founder
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
Regarding stove question...I think most people stick with what's on the boat they are interested in. My boat has electric. I'm not going to retrofit propane. If it were propane, I'd leave it. If I had a choice...I'm not sure I'd care but a propane system is slightly more complex and technically more dangerous...although risks can be mitigated.
Having an inverter answers some of your questions. I just installed one. If I had the inverter before I had to replace that $1400 hunk of crap Norcold, I would have bought I nice household unit...
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B...Sold
Meridian 411...T-Cummins 450C
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 06:54 PM   #6
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,728
My 1977 boat is old school. All helm controls are connected mechanically. The only thing digital on my boat controls are my fingers. I've been on a member's Helmsman 38PH that had digital power levers. He had to press a button to transfer authority to the other helm... and accept it at the other helm, I think. Maybe Windmist will see this and confirm that.

AC/DC Fridge: I have one, a Norcold, and it has its own inverter/converter. Not sure if its native power is AC or DC though.

I've got propane for the stove/oven but I hardly use it. It works well when I do, though. I have a POCCC (Piece of Cheap Chinese Crap) Xantrex 1000W Inverter that powers my small coffee maker, microwave and 2nd fridge (AC Only). If I want Keurig coffee, I need to fire up the generator b/c that little appliance draws 1500W! It revs up my Honda gen!

I bet you're looking forward to being able to open a fridge door and look at what's there, aren't you? No more digging into a deep hole in your little counter hole to get food. I remember when one nice sailing couple joined me for a drink in in my cockpit. I pulled out 2 chairs and the wife exclaimed, "Oh, look honey...Chairs! I haven't seen chairs in a while!" You should have seen the relaxed look on her face when she sat down on a comfortable chair. Welcome to the comfortable world of trawlering!!

Oh....and please....no sailboat pics. We have some 12-step recovering sailors as members.
__________________
My boat is my ark. It's my mobile treehouse and my floating fishing cabin. It's my retreat and my respite. Everyday I thank God I have a boat! -Al FJB

@DeltaBridges - 25 Delta Bridges in 25 Days
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 06:58 PM   #7
TF Site Team/Forum Founder
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
<<AC/DC Fridge: I have one, a Norcold, and it has its own inverter/converter. Not sure if its native power is AC or DC though.>>

I'm pretty sure the way it works, if AC power is available, that is what they will use. Ironically I've heard they are more efficient on DC...probably because of that inverter thing. So I guess Native is DC.
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B...Sold
Meridian 411...T-Cummins 450C
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 07:19 PM   #8
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9,046
Great questions Adagio, some of my own as I started looking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adagio43 View Post
On boats with multiple steering stations do you have to disengage/engage when you change locations or do they mirror each other. I'm talking steering, throttle and forward/reverse.
As near as I can tell, mechanical controls with two stations will be split controls, ie one for throttle and one for power. With newer systems there are electronic controls which can use a single lever for both even with multiple helm stations. Not sure how control is passed however.

FWIW, I used separate controls for throttle and shift for the first time yesterday. It was a bit odd at first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adagio43 View Post
AC/DC refrigeration:
On these multiple current refrigeration units are there compressors that run off both AC & DC, two compressors or an internal inverter/converter.
Great question. Seeing as how I likely will be an owner with one of the those, I should probably add that to my ever increasing list of "stuff I don't know".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adagio43 View Post
Electric stoves:
Why instead of propane. Are they initially cheaper, are people afraid of propane or ??? I ask because I can't see firing up the genset to make a cup of coffee.
There was a long discussion that you should read on Gas or Electric galley. What I took out of it is that those that need air conditioning, are more likely to use an electric galley as they are running the GenSet all the time anyway. Many of the new boat manufacturers spec out electric galleys for the East Coast and Propane for the West Coast. Bottom line is that either is fine and you can get used to either one. Coming from sailboats, we tend to be loathe to run a Genset. I imagine we will get over that pretty quickly. On that thread above, there was much discussion on how to get that morning cup of coffee without the genset. For me, I am hoping that a 3000w inverter will be enough to fire up my Keurig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adagio43 View Post
These questions may appear dumb but coming from the sailing world these questions are all mysteries to me. Have your fun but I hope in the end I get some answers. Thanks
You will find that the TF folks are very gentle with us sailors at first. Much like the drunken bar bully is nice and gentle to small children and puppies.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 08:34 PM   #9
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: 1977 Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 13,728
You will find that the TF folks are very gentle with us sailors at first. Much like the drunken bar bully is nice and gentle to small children and puppies.

Lima Oscar Lima!
__________________
My boat is my ark. It's my mobile treehouse and my floating fishing cabin. It's my retreat and my respite. Everyday I thank God I have a boat! -Al FJB

@DeltaBridges - 25 Delta Bridges in 25 Days
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 09:41 PM   #10
TF Site Team
 
koliver's Avatar
 
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,663
1 I can only answer for hydraulic systems. No need to do anything but relocate your body to the other station. everything works just the same at both places.

2 You need to know what AC/DC fridge you have. Usually, they are more efficient on AC, so if being at anchor for days at a time is important, don't buy AC/DC. Get DC only, so no losses when having to convert to AC using the (Norcold) built-in inverter. Search for this topic, as it has been discussed many times before.

3 Fear. Don't be afraid. Get propane. Be silent.

No dumb questions. Just dumb if you didn't ask when you should.
koliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2016, 09:49 PM   #11
Guru
 
City: Galveston, Texas
Vessel Model: 24" El Pescador
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 744
Some (maybe all) the electronic controls require disengaging one (shift & throttles) and then you engage the other.
ktdtx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 12:48 AM   #12
Wannabe
 
Britannia's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Vessel Name: Stillwater
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 782
I'm an ex-sailor - you'll love having a trawler!

On controls - my steering and engine controls are hydraulic. No switchover is required. The engine controls move in sync at both helm stations. The wheel at the helm not it use does not move. Neither wheel moves when the autopilot is steering.

I have a propane stove. When I refit my galley I plan to go with a full sized propane stovetop and an electric convection oven. I like cooking with gas and was used to it on my sailboat.

I have a good sized battery bank and an inverter so I can run my espresso machine and 120v fridges (2) and freezer without running either of the generators. At anchor I can go 24 hours without discharging my batteries more than 50%.

I have to do some research on whether to go AC, DC or AC/DC for the fridges/freezer when I refit the galley. It's not clear to me which is the most efficient given I'm always running an inverter when there's no AC (shore power or genset).

Richard
Britannia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 06:24 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
av8r's Avatar
 
City: Anacortes
Vessel Name: Selah
Vessel Model: Ocean Alexander 40
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 315
1. We have hydraulic steering and mechanical shifters and throttles. No changeover required, all controls can be operated from either station.
2. We have DC fridge, said to be nominally more efficient than AC. Not sure about the efficiency, but we don't run the gen while at anchor or on a mooring buoy.
3. We have a propane stove/oven and use both regularly. Propane cooking and diesel heating was a basic requirement for us since we boat in the PNW and we like quiet and heat.
av8r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 08:29 AM   #14
Guru
 
ranger58sb's Avatar
 
City: Annapolis
Vessel Name: Ranger
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adagio43 View Post
Questions from a sailor thinking Trawler:
On boats with multiple steering stations do you have to disengage/engage when you change locations or do they mirror each other. I'm talking steering, throttle and forward/reverse.

AC/DC refrigeration:
On these multiple current refrigeration units are there compressors that run off both AC & DC, two compressors or an internal inverter/converter.

Electric stoves:
Why instead of propane. Are they initially cheaper, are people afraid of propane or ??? I ask because I can't see firing up the genset to make a cup of coffee.

These questions may appear dumb but coming from the sailing world these questions are all mysteries to me. Have your fun but I hope in the end I get some answers. Thanks

No engagement/disengagement necessary on the dual-helm system we had.

Our AC/DC fridges always run on a DC compressor. When fed AC as power source, the fridges "power supply" converts AC to DC, much like a laptop's power supply.

Ours came with electric, so that's what we use and have come to prefer, for this boat. (Induction would likely be even better.) Coffee and microwave will run on an inverter easily enough, when the genset isn't running.

-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
ranger58sb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 09:13 AM   #15
Guru
 
RCook's Avatar


 
City: Holladay, UT
Vessel Name: Dream Catcher
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-065
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 841
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktdtx View Post
Some (maybe all) the electronic controls require disengaging one (shift & throttles) and then you engage the other.
Our Volvo KAD44P, 18 years old but electronically controlled, has three helm stations. Throttle and shift are fly-by-wire. To take engine/gear control at a different station, I push a button at that new station. No disengagement required at the station which had been in control.

Steering (hydraulic) works everywhere all the time - turn any wheel and it steers.
__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tug 37-065) Poulsbo WA
Previously: New Moon (Bounty 257), Cindy Sea (C-Dory 22 Cruiser)
"Cruising in a Big Way"
RCook is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 09:15 AM   #16
Guru
 
rwidman's Avatar
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adagio43 View Post
Questions from a sailor thinking Trawler:
On boats with multiple steering stations do you have to disengage/engage when you change locations or do they mirror each other. I'm talking steering, throttle and forward/reverse.

AC/DC refrigeration:
On these multiple current refrigeration units are there compressors that run off both AC & DC, two compressors or an internal inverter/converter.

Electric stoves:
Why instead of propane. Are they initially cheaper, are people afraid of propane or ??? I ask because I can't see firing up the genset to make a cup of coffee.

These questions may appear dumb but coming from the sailing world these questions are all mysteries to me. Have your fun but I hope in the end I get some answers. Thanks
I can only answer based on my own boat.

I don't have to engage or disengage anything when moving from the lower helm to the upper helm. The steering is hydraulic and the throttle and gearshift are interconnected cables.

My refrigerator runs on AC if available, DC if not. It's what is commonly called an "AC/DC refrigerator and is probably the most common kind on a relatively small boat.

I don't know why anyone would put an electric stove on a boat. Mine is propane. I do have a large battery bank and inverter so I can also use a microwave oven and a coffee pot (but not at the same time).
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 09:24 AM   #17
Guru
 
ranger58sb's Avatar
 
City: Annapolis
Vessel Name: Ranger
Vessel Model: 58' Sedan Bridge
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,088
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
I don't know why anyone would put an electric stove on a boat.

Electric cooktop, inexpensive units, easy installation, takes minimal space, no special venting required, cooks OK, works well with boats that already have shorepower and gensets, electricity is already on the boat (so no finding/humping propane or alcohol or whatever needed), etc.

Not a recommendation, just an observation.

-Chris
__________________
Chesapeake Bay, USA
ranger58sb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 09:26 AM   #18
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale. Florida, USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 21,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post

I don't know why anyone would put an electric stove on a boat. Mine is propane. I do have a large battery bank and inverter so I can also use a microwave oven and a coffee pot (but not at the same time).
Since I'm one of those anyone's you don't see, I'll answer. I choose not to have propane on a boat. I'm not saying it's a huge risk or that many don't have it safely. We use electric for many things on the boat, including air conditioning, and between batteries, inverters, generators and shore power, have no problems getting by without it. As to the coffee question, we'd accommodate that with a coffee pot. But if we need to start the generator and it's not already running, then we just start it. That's what it's there for.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 10:08 AM   #19
vp1
Veteran Member
 
City: Boston, MA
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britannia View Post
I'm an ex-sailor - you'll love having a trawler!

On controls - my steering and engine controls are hydraulic. No switchover is required. The engine controls move in sync at both helm stations. The wheel at the helm not it use does not move. Neither wheel moves when the autopilot is steering.
How does that work, I've actually always been curious about this. What if you leave the wheel at helm 1 all the way to the right and then start steering on helm 2 and turns the wheel all the way left. Does it mean that as soon as you touch the helm 1 wheel, the rudder will go hard over right?
vp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 10:17 AM   #20
Guru
 
RCook's Avatar


 
City: Holladay, UT
Vessel Name: Dream Catcher
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-065
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 841
With our helms (Teleflex Seastar hydraulic steering), the visible position of any of the wheels has nothing to do with the position of the sterndrive (our rudder). Only the motion of a wheel is important. When we turn any wheel, the hydraulics are pumped, and the sterndrive turns whichever way the wheel is turned. The other two wheels do not move. Valving in the helms makes this work.
__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tug 37-065) Poulsbo WA
Previously: New Moon (Bounty 257), Cindy Sea (C-Dory 22 Cruiser)
"Cruising in a Big Way"
RCook is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012