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Old 04-02-2016, 12:06 AM   #41
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How does that work, I've actually always been curious about this. What if you leave the wheel at helm 1 all the way to the right and then start steering on helm 2 and turns the wheel all the way left. Does it mean that as soon as you touch the helm 1 wheel, the rudder will go hard over right?
On my boat, the upper helm overpowers the lower helm...just the opposite of what I would have thought. I found that out when I forgot that I left the lower helm wheel pilot engaged when my brother and I went to the flybridge. I would steer from above and the AP would correct subtlely. I thought I had a leak in the system. Only when I returned to the lower helm did I figure it out.

One helm can overpower the lower helm but it's not felt in the wheel. Turn one wheel and the other does not move.

I rely on a rudder indicator to give me that position reference. No Turks head here. Must be the pilot in me.
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Old 04-02-2016, 12:12 AM   #42
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Worse are the sailors with everything clanging.
Agreed. I have a handful of small three strand lines that I have put eye splices in one end and a stopper knot on the other. These are sized so that I can easily put tending on all the offending halyards in such as way as they don't slap.
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Old 04-02-2016, 12:36 AM   #43
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You will find that the TF folks are very gentle with us sailors at first. Much like the drunken bar bully is nice and gentle to small children and puppies.
Aaah, yes...."old dogs and children...and watermelon wine..."
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Old 04-02-2016, 12:46 AM   #44
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Old 04-02-2016, 03:22 AM   #45
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Hi all,we're all electric with two Onan genny's. I prefer to cook with gas however having seen one gas explosion on a yacht I'm happy to keep gas confined to the BBQ on deck.
We have both eutectic and AC fridges and a AC deep freeze.These run off a 3kw Victron inverter system with 1700 ah battery bank.The AC fridge and deep freeze are conventional household units so they don't tend to frost up like some eutectics do.And the fridge has an ice cube maker which helps with the sundowners.We can get a couple of days running easily without the genny however rarely do that.
We tend to run the genny for half an hour in the morning and about an hour in the evening this charges the batteries,makes hot water,runs the stove,vacuum etc etc.
Our genny's are super quiet and well muffled so most people don't know when they are running.The under floor genny is 19w which is almost new and the backup is 25kw and lives in the engine room.
I'm keen to try an induction cooktop just for the speed of temp change. Most people with them seem happy.
Our galley is original 1984 so an update is on the cards as some stage.
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Old 04-02-2016, 04:41 AM   #46
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Good thread. Interesting feedback. Most of the answers center around what is existing in the boat when it was bought.

I'm starting from scratch, watching the budget tightly and not installing a genset, although designing a place for it. The decision is to go with residential appliances - gas stove/oven and a digital inverter refrigerator (230v - 50Hz). Highly efficient. No flybridge so plenty of room for residential solar panels, which are $1 per watt nowadays and some are pushing 65 cents per watt.

The builder is only providing a minimal flooded-cell house battery bank and I will wait to decide on whether to go AGM or not. The boat will be built bare-bones ("sail-away" some call it) and I will fit out myself afterwards.

BTW, an induction cooktop actually transfer heat to the food at a higher efficiency rate than gas does.
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Old 04-02-2016, 06:55 AM   #47
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"digital inverter refrigerator (230v - 50Hz)."

With a clean sheet new build , why not a Propane residential reefer unit (Serville) ?

20lb propane less than monthly.

Or with room for it a Sun Frost DC unit with 1/3 or less the power requirement of a house reefer and inverter.?
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:24 AM   #48
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"digital inverter refrigerator (230v - 50Hz)." Or with room for it a Sun Frost DC unit with 1/3 or less the power requirement of a house reefer and inverter.?
Simple answer, the Sunfrost is about 10%-15% more efficient than the super-efficient digital inverter frigs, but cost 4X the price ($800 vs $3200). That difference will pay for solar panels, an inverter and some batteries.

So assuming that all trawlers wish to have PV panels and some batteries, then the only savings with the DC is not having to buy a pure sine wave inverter - which is a nice thing to have onboard.

However, since I haven't stepped into a Home Depot or Sears in over 7 years, I wonder if they even sell the D.I. appliances in America?
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Old 04-02-2016, 09:56 AM   #49
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Worse are the sailors with everything clanging.


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That's why a rudder indicator is handy/informative.


I really feel my rudder indicator is a piece of essential gear and highly recommend one...that said if a great find boat doesn't have one probably not a show stopper as hey can be added.

My guess if you are asking about the stove, fridge, etc you don't have a strong preference... my $0.02 is none of these would be show stoppers if you find a boat you really love.

Most of us w/ quiet gens run them AM for coffee / b'fst? and PM or dinner and charge batt'y banks while at it... that has worked well for us - noise not an issue and haven't had neighbors even mention noise...
not all gens are that pleasant so worth a check
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:20 AM   #50
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You have to have a darn noisy generator and be anchored awfully close or rafted up to bother anyone.

Having lived full time on moorings and hundreds of nights at anchor, including relatively crowded ones, we have never got a complaint, and that's with an older Onan in an older Hatteras with no sound shield, not to mention various chartered Grand Banks and Mainships. If we know we are going to be running the thing at night (only in the hottest weather) , we make sure to be downwind from others.. not because of noise, but exhaust.
As I've said here before, if we loved a boat that came with a good propane kitchen, or one with an electric kitchen (like the Hatt did), we'd spend 0 dollars changing out appliances either way, though we prefer electric for convenience and safety.
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Old 04-03-2016, 01:02 AM   #51
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I always had propane prior to the current boat. I thought it would be first on my list to convert her from elec to propane. I was wrong. One fuel source (diesel). No explosions. We always need battery charging in the am so why not run the genny and make an espresso? Underway the inverter is making almost free power to run the stove if desired. Propane doesn't belong if diesel and a genny is present. It's just plane safer, cheaper and more convenient. The genny almost always needs the extra load to properly load her.
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Old 04-03-2016, 07:39 AM   #52
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"It's just plane safer, cheaper and more convenient."

What do you figure your total noisemaker operating costs per hour are?

I always figure $5.00 to $10.00 per hour.

What have you included in the all up costs?
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Old 04-03-2016, 08:02 AM   #53
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My guess if you are asking about the stove, fridge, etc you don't have a strong preference... my $0.02 is none of these would be show stoppers if you find a boat you really love.
I suspect that's a reasonable observation, and least for many cases Had our boat come with propane, we'd have probably been fine with that.

(And we have propane at home, so were, used to cooking on gas vs. electric.... although we've also had electric at home in many of our homes over the years.)

OTOH, had it been alcohol... either that's not the boat, or the alcohol stove would have to go. Previous experience with that convinced me it's useless for my purposes (like anything to do with quick cooking)... and I can't see the flame, so that's not comfortable.


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What do you figure your total noisemaker operating costs per hour are?
I always figure $5.00 to $10.00 per hour.
What have you included in the all up costs?
Realize this is a question responding to another poster, but I can chime in:

I figure our genset operating costs are somewhere between "not very much" and "who cares?" Inconsequential, in the grand scheme of our things.

That could get different if it broke and needed major repairs or replacement... but (knock wood) ours isn't approaching that kind of lifetime yet. (Although a better solution to the putzy fuel filter assembly would be useful).

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Old 04-03-2016, 01:29 PM   #54
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"It's just plane safer, cheaper and more convenient."

What do you figure your total noisemaker operating costs per hour are?

I always figure $5.00 to $10.00 per hour.

What have you included in the all up costs?
We'd be running ours anyway, so the cost is irrelevant to the electric vs. propane choice for us.
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Old 04-03-2016, 02:33 PM   #55
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OTOH, had it been alcohol... either that's not the boat, or the alcohol stove would have to go.
-Chris
Agree ... I wouldn't recommend it either pressure or non.pressure
Not worth the risk
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Old 04-03-2016, 03:48 PM   #56
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Some things aren't irrelevant to those that need something that can't easily be replaced financially......


Perspective....
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Old 04-03-2016, 04:34 PM   #57
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Some things aren't irrelevant to those that need something that can't easily be replaced financially......


Perspective....
That's why I was very clear, making the statement only that it was irrelevant to us because we'd be running the generator anyway. Obviously it's not irrelevant to everyone.
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