Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-01-2016, 11:19 AM   #21
vp1
Veteran Member
 
City: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCook View Post
With our helms (Teleflex Seastar hydraulic steering), the visible position of any of the wheels has nothing to do with the position of the sterndrive (our rudder). Only the motion of a wheel is important. When we turn any wheel, the hydraulics are pumped, and the sterndrive turns whichever way the wheel is turned. Valving in the helms makes this work.
Ahh, so is there no limit to how far the wheel can turn? It'll just go over and over like a jog dial? Or otherwise is there a way to turn the wheel without changing the position of the sterndrive for re-centering purposes?
__________________
Advertisement

vp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 11:27 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
RCook's Avatar


 
City: Holladay, UT
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dream Catcher
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37-065
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 499
Our wheels turn about 5 revolutions from the sterndrive's full port to full starboard. Sterndrive movement stops limit how far you can turn a wheel at any one time.

There is no such thing as centering the wheel itself, only centering the sterndrive. We can't look at any wheel and know where the drive is pointed. If we're stationary, and wish to know where the drive is pointed, we lean over the transom and look.
__________________

__________________
Richard Cook
Dream Catcher (Nordic Tug 37)
New Moon (Bounty 257) - FOR SALE
"Cruising in a Big Way"
RCook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 11:29 AM   #23
vp1
Veteran Member
 
City: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCook View Post
Our wheels turn about 5 revolutions from the sterndrive's full port to full starboard. Sterndrive movement stops limit how far you can turn a wheeel at any one time.

There is no such thing as centering the wheel itself, only centering the sterndrive. We can't look at any wheel and know where the drive is pointed. If we're stationary, and wish to know where the drive is pointed, we lean over the transom and look.
Thanks!
vp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 11:44 AM   #24
Wannabe
 
Britannia's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Stillwater
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 766
Quote:
Originally Posted by vp1 View Post
How does that work, I've actually always been curious about this. What if you leave the wheel at helm 1 all the way to the right and then start steering on helm 2 and turns the wheel all the way left. Does it mean that as soon as you touch the helm 1 wheel, the rudder will go hard over right?
As the other Richard said, the wheel is a pump. It's actual position doesn't mean anything. It'll pump hydraulic fluid in either direction until the rudder hits an end stop.

Richard
Britannia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 11:45 AM   #25
vp1
Veteran Member
 
City: Boston, MA
Country: United States
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Britannia View Post
As the other Richard said, the wheel is a pump. It's actual position doesn't mean anything. It'll pump hydraulic fluid in either direction until the rudder hits an end stop.

Richard
Thank you also! I guess it's painfully obvious how much time I've spent operating a boat
vp1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 12:03 PM   #26
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
Since I'm one of those anyone's you don't see, I'll answer. I choose not to have propane on a boat. I'm not saying it's a huge risk or that many don't have it safely. We use electric for many things on the boat, including air conditioning, and between batteries, inverters, generators and shore power, have no problems getting by without it. As to the coffee question, we'd accommodate that with a coffee pot. But if we need to start the generator and it's not already running, then we just start it. That's what it's there for.
Some boats don't have gensets. Some of the gensets are broken.

I much prefer to cook with gas. So does my wife. So much so that when we moved to a new (to us) home, we took out a working electric range and installed a gas range. We had to have the gas line extended to it.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 12:19 PM   #27
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
Some boats don't have gensets. Some of the gensets are broken.

I much prefer to cook with gas. So does my wife. So much so that when we moved to a new (to us) home, we took out a working electric range and installed a gas range. We had to have the gas line extended to it.
You said you didn't understand how anyone would choose electric. I simply stated while we did, not why you or anyone else should. We have gensets. Our gensets are not broken. We also get excellent results even with electric grills.

As to cooktops, we use induction. I know how many women want gas because they feel it reaches higher temperatures but in cooking, reaching a maximum temperature is rarely very important unless you're going for the temperatures of commercial ovens, which reach over 1000 degrees. Conventional ovens set at 450 degrees are going to be 450 degrees regardless of electric or gas. Gas may get there quicker.

To me there's a huge difference between having gas in my home and having propane on the boat. We have a commercial kitchen at home and it's gas. But we also have had very careful piping, know where all the disconnects are, and how to turn the gas supply off before it reaches the house. That's not like a propane tank, where storage for extras on a boat becomes an issue. Plus as often as we grill on a boat, we'd be constantly needing new tanks.

So, I have no fault with those who prefer propane. I just don't.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 12:43 PM   #28
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
............ I know how many women want gas because they feel it reaches higher temperatures .............
Yea, that's not a bit sexist!

Having just left a week at my in-laws house with an electric stove I am reminded that electric does not reach whatever temperature you want as fast as gas, but more importantly, it does not cool down as fast as gas. Turn the gas burner off and it's off. Turn an electric burner off and it's still as hot as it was a minute ago. It takes several minutes to cool down. And with gas, you can see how high the flame is. Electric. you have to guess what "medium" means.

Back to the boat, propane makes no noise. Electric with a genset running does. It may not bother you, but in a quiet anchorage, it's pretty inconsiderate to run a genset before everyone else is awake.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 01:10 PM   #29
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
Yea, that's not a bit sexist!

Having just left a week at my in-laws house with an electric stove I am reminded that electric does not reach whatever temperature you want as fast as gas, but more importantly, it does not cool down as fast as gas. Turn the gas burner off and it's off. Turn an electric burner off and it's still as hot as it was a minute ago. It takes several minutes to cool down. And with gas, you can see how high the flame is. Electric. you have to guess what "medium" means.

Back to the boat, propane makes no noise. Electric with a genset running does. It may not bother you, but in a quiet anchorage, it's pretty inconsiderate to run a genset before everyone else is awake.
I should have said cooks, not women. Just you were referring to your wife and since I believed her to be a woman, I addressed it in that way. However, women does come across sexist. I apologize.

Well, our genset does not make the noise you describe to wake and disturb others. It has a sound shield and is in a sound proofed engine room. Very low decibel level, and the areas we cruise, gensets are used in the anchorages and not thought of as rude. We also don't anchor much. As I stated, our situation is different. You questioned why anyone would use electric. I told you our reasons.

Now as to induction cooktops. Instant heat. Can bring water to a boil quicker than gas. Heat only the pan so no waste. Instant cool down. Safer than gas or regular electric. Also ours on the boat use silicone mats and meet the ABYC requirements for pot retention. Much easier to use while underway as pots won't slide. The negatives are initial cost and the need for pots and pans that are compatible. So for those on the fence of gas vs. electric, I'd suggest considering induction as well. It overcomes all the issues you described except the need for electricity.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 03:12 PM   #30
Guru
 
High Wire's Avatar
 
City: Cape May, NJ and Englewood, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Irish Lady
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,598
I had a '78 Carver that used mechanical push-pull dual station steering setup. There was a selection lever at the lower station to choose. Mechanical throttles and gear control cables with both stations moving together.
With newer controls you can have it any way you want.
__________________
Archie
1984 Monk 36 Hull #46
Englewood, FL and Cape May, NJ
High Wire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 03:29 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
bilge53's Avatar
 
City: Oriental, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: M/V Major Award
Vessel Model: Senator 35 w/single Lehman
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 420
Many of our boats have Hynautic or Seastar steering systems. Only the station being used pumps. Wheels are not "centered". It is nice to have a rudder indicator though just to confirm the rudder was left where you thought you left it.
bilge53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 04:20 PM   #32
Member
 
City: Florida
Country: USA
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 14
I want to thank everyone for their replies. It sounds like when it comes to the steering, throttle and shifting it depends on what system you have. Which I guess makes sense because not everyone has the same set up.

The AC/DC fridge runs on AC either from shore power, gen set or inverter either internal or external. I assume these fringes are air cooled. I have always had DC powered refrigeration and was confused by the AC/DC combination. I have also seen conventional (whirlpool) fridge/freezers on trawlers but have no idea how much DC power is required when they are run off an inverter. At the dock or when the gen set is running this isn't a problem but I prefer not to be at the dock or listening to a genset...sorry, it's just how I am. The only thing I ever used an inverter for was running the microwave when AC power wasn't available and that was mostly to heat up leftovers.

Propane is my choice for cooking both on the stove and BBQ. I couldn't understand using electric stoves but that is because of my preference not to be at the dock or listening to a gen set.

Anyway thanks for all the responses and I'm glad I could get some answers both for myself and others.
Mike
Adagio43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 04:34 PM   #33
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
I should have said cooks, not women. Just you were referring to your wife and since I believed her to be a woman, I addressed it in that way. However, women does come across sexist. I apologize. .............
It takes real talent to make an apology and an insult in the same sentence.

I know one of your reasons for being here is to argue but I have better things to do today. Maybe tomorrow.................
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 05:31 PM   #34
Member
 
City: Florida
Country: USA
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilge53 View Post
Many of our boats have Hynautic or Seastar steering systems. Only the station being used pumps. Wheels are not "centered". It is nice to have a rudder indicator though just to confirm the rudder was left where you thought you left it.
Thank you. On sailboats a piece of tape or Turks Head on the rim of the wheel would tell you rudder position. Learning something new every day.
Adagio43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 07:15 PM   #35
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilge53 View Post
Many of our boats have Hynautic or Seastar steering systems. Only the station being used pumps. Wheels are not "centered". It is nice to have a rudder indicator though just to confirm the rudder was left where you thought you left it.
I know that my wheel turns just a bit over six revolutions from lock to lock so I can turn it all the way to port or starboard and turn it back three turns and the rudder will be centered.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 07:33 PM   #36
Wannabe
 
Britannia's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Stillwater
Vessel Model: Kadey-Krogen 54
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 766
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesK View Post
I know that my wheel turns just a bit over six revolutions from lock to lock so I can turn it all the way to port or starboard and turn it back three turns and the rudder will be centered.
I have rudder indicators at both helms. With 7.5 turns on the wheel I don't have time to be finding the midship rudder position. I regard them as essential gauges on my boat.

Richard
Britannia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 11:21 PM   #37
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 5,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
Well, our genset does not make the noise you describe to wake and disturb others. It has a sound shield and is in a sound proofed engine room. Very low decibel level, and the areas we cruise, gensets are used in the anchorages and not thought of as rude. We also don't anchor much. As I stated, our situation is different. You questioned why anyone would use electric. I told you our reasons.
That is a great point. In boats with the genset inside a sound shield inside a sound insulated engine room, neighboring boats really won't hear the Genset motor, although they may hear the water coming from the exhaust.

I have always been annoyed by Gensets running in neighboring boats while at anchor. However, I am only annoyed by those Gensets that I actually hear. I am convinced now that there are a lot of Gensets running that I am simply not aware of.

Much worse are my fellow sailors who have their Honda generator running on the back in the evening.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 11:27 PM   #38
Guru
 
dhays's Avatar
 
City: Gig Harbor
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Kinship
Vessel Model: North Pacific 43
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 5,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adagio43 View Post
Thank you. On sailboats a piece of tape or Turks Head on the rim of the wheel would tell you rudder position. Learning something new every day.
If you hadn't asked the question, I wouldn't have known the answer. I just had a survey done on a boat with hydraulic steering and two helms. There was no turks head on the wheel! I felt a bit lost. I like that tactile indicator. It is nice to know the rudder position without having to look at an indicator. But sadly, that isn't to be anymore. No wonder the rudder position indicator was front and center on the instrument console.
__________________
Regards,

Dave
SPOT page
dhays is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 11:35 PM   #39
Guru
 
BandB's Avatar
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Country: USA
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,118
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhays View Post

Much worse are my fellow sailors who have their Honda generator running on the back in the evening.
Worse are the sailors with everything clanging.
BandB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2016, 11:40 PM   #40
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by vp1 View Post
Thank you also! I guess it's painfully obvious how much time I've spent operating a boat
That's why a rudder indicator is handy/informative.
__________________

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012