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Old 06-17-2019, 10:43 PM   #21
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In the mid-70's every boat manufacturer had to make the choice whether to continue using wood, or spend a boat load of money to re-tool for fiberglass production. Despite the required overhead investment they all switched to fiberglass.

wood boats
VHS tapes
coal furnaces
sun dials
morse code
inkwells
polaroids
phonographs

There's a reason these things don't exist.

Wood is alive and well in the custom high tech composite boatbuilding world.

The Gougeon brothers of WEST epoxy fame revolutionized composite boat construction in the 70's and the method has kept up with current materials and technology.

Instead of expensive molds for mass production fiberglass boat construction, one off custom boats are built on traditional style temporary wood frames. The upside down frames are covered with diagonal layers of thin narrow wood strips set in epoxy. The hulls are covered on the outside with epoxy and exotic fabrics like Kevlar, Carbon fiber etc, turned over, temporary frames removed and interior covered in similar fashion to the interior. Sometimes the interiors are clear coated to let the wood show.

This type of construction is popular in large off shore racing sail boats. Wood is compared favorably to other coring materials for it's strength to weight ratio.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:52 PM   #22
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.

Ever hear of Re-fastening? That is something wood boats have to do every 20-25 years. It is a dirty, time consuming, expensive project that fewer and fewer yards will do.
People we know did their 65 footer , same build as ours but bigger, last year.
A few days in a shed, a few guys doing the job and about $5000 in bronze fasteners on their 2" thick planking.
She was about 45 years old.
Doesn't seem that big or expensive a job considering the price you buy in for.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:09 PM   #23
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People we know did their 65 footer , same build as ours but bigger, last year.
A few days in a shed, a few guys doing the job and about $5000 in bronze fasteners on their 2" thick planking.
She was about 45 years old.
Doesn't seem that big or expensive a job considering the price you buy in for.
Ok, $5000 in bronze screws, did they happen to mention the labor costs. I'm sure it was well north of $5000, at least if it was done the right way.
2 ways to re-fasten...the fast, cheap way, just put new screws in next to the old. The right way to do it...pull the wood plugs covering existing screws, remove the old, rusty screws and replace with new, one size larger screws and then, re-plug the hole. That's a whole lot of man hours and I can promise, the yard charges a lot more than minimum wage for this job. If it was done the right way, I'd be shocked if the labor was under $10,000 and I wouldn't be surprised to hear $15,000. Plus the cost of having the boat in a shed for a couple of days..$1000, maybe $2000.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:37 PM   #24
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Ok, $5000 in bronze screws, did they happen to mention the labor costs. I'm sure it was well north of $5000, at least if it was done the right way.
2 ways to re-fasten...the fast, cheap way, just put new screws in next to the old. The right way to do it...pull the wood plugs covering existing screws, remove the old, rusty screws and replace with new, one size larger screws and then, re-plug the hole. That's a whole lot of man hours and I can promise, the yard charges a lot more than minimum wage for this job. If it was done the right way, I'd be shocked if the labor was under $10,000 and I wouldn't be surprised to hear $15,000. Plus the cost of having the boat in a shed for a couple of days..$1000, maybe $2000.
And I thought Australia had the highest prices for labour.
I know they got a deal on the shed, not what you know its who you know and I dare say the same on the labour.
I reckon they wouldn't have paid much more than $12k including the screws, that's about $8500 usd

That's working on about $50/hour for labour which I am sure is a hell of a lot more than your minimum wage and more than double ours.
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:47 PM   #25
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Marine labor rates here go from 90 to 110 per hour, nothing like 50.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:05 AM   #26
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Marine labor rates here go from 90 to 110 per hour, nothing like 50.
Plenty of big yards here will charge that sort of coin and the workers never see anything like it.
Skilled guys working for themselves charge considerably less.

We're wanting to get ours up north to Thailand.
There, skilled workers employed by a big yard will cost me about $70/day
Grunt labour about half that
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:53 AM   #27
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https://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-Grand-...8AAOSwk8xdAv~4 Buy a trawler like this---You will never regret having a glass hull--And you will have plenty of woodwork to keep you busy. It has the power you want--but it is an East Coast boat.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:23 AM   #28
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There are more and more marinas that even refuse to rent slips to wood boat owners.

I'm a former wood boat owner. Had a 1971, 37' Egg Harbor which in its day, was a popular, well built boat. In the first year I had it, 1998 I think, I spent over $10,000 in repairs and maintenance. I knew going into it, the boat needed maybe $2000 in work. Boy, was I wrong.

Never again.

Ever hear of Re-fastening? That is something wood boats have to do every 20-25 years. It is a dirty, time consuming, expensive project that fewer and fewer yards will do. If you are hell bent on buying a wood GB, find out the last time, if ever, it was re-fastened. If it is needed in the near future, plan on having a fat wallet ahead of time.
I'm up on tradtional boat building. I've been around wood boats being repaired. As much as I like working with wood, I would never own an older traditional built wood boat. The upkeep alone would be overwhelming at times.
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What a pain in the transom.

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Old 06-18-2019, 08:29 AM   #29
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The wood boat designs that I am narrowing down are plywood over sawn frames. There's a minimum for fiberglass and epoxy sheathing on the outer hull. I plan to use my boat for some serious long range cruising so I will opt for addition fiberglass and epoxy coating the entire structure to keep moister away from the wood as much as possible. Prep work for priming and painting with epoxy and fiberglass goes a long way to keep water out of wood. This won't be my first boat with wood and epoxy together. I've done many deck and stringer jobs in boats. What a pain those can be.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:44 AM   #30
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If you have never owned a wood boat please don't start now.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:16 AM   #31
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FG is OK for commoners but real boats are made of wood.
The common folk just can’t afford the best. It’s always been that way.
And for the commoner cheap to maintain is a must.
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:46 AM   #32
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The best part of wood boat experience was the smell in a boatyard full of them.
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:24 AM   #33
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Bayview yes.
And the’re working on the planking on the boat next to you and her planks are Yellow Cedar. Nose candy
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Old 06-20-2019, 05:40 AM   #34
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" The upside down frames are covered with diagonal layers of thin narrow wood strips set in epoxy."

Cold Molded boats were built up with resorcinol glue before epoxy was used.

The technique was to staple the plywood planks on in layers with monel staples, that did not have to be removed.
Resorcinol glue - Wikipedia



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Old 06-21-2019, 07:03 AM   #35
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FG is OK for commoners but real boats are made of wood.
The common folk just can’t afford the best. It’s always been that way.
And for the commoner cheap to maintain is a must.
Another option is for "commoners" to buy a wood boat so small they can afford it. Hopefully it meets their needs size wise. If it does then they are lucky indeed.

I love wood boats but have a hard enough time keeping up with the maintenance on my FG trawler.

Still unsure if it is a "wood boat" or "wooden boat".
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:00 PM   #36
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FG is OK for commoners but real boats are made of wood.
The common folk just can’t afford the best. It’s always been that way.
And for the commoner cheap to maintain is a must.

Amen. Wood takes more work and maintenance but that is because its better. I have owned Glass, Wood, Steel, and Glass over Wood. If I were rich, it would always be wood. I am poor so now days its glass.
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:24 PM   #37
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for sound quality and pure enjoyment, phonographs rule! just sayin'
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:44 PM   #38
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for sound quality and pure enjoyment, phonographs rule! just sayin'
I've heard that before and real audio purists can tell the difference between digital vs phonograph. My ears aren't good enough to hear the difference.
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:54 PM   #39
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Aluminum beats ‘em all, no worms or rot to worry about.
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Old 06-21-2019, 02:09 PM   #40
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I, too, love wood trawlers and hope that caring stewards will continue to love and preserve them for their distinct qualities.

Look, too, at early wooden DeFevers made by Lindwall (42'-60'), Oriental Boat Company (38' 2-cabin, 50' 3-cabin & 54' Alaskans), and 46' Alaskans by American Marine (later to become GB). All of the Lindwalls and many of the OBC and AM boats are still in good shape and actively cruising. All are single engine, most are on the West Coast, and they're roomier than GB. These were luxury boats that were first owned by wealthy CEOs and Hollywood. There are some for sale up and down the West Coast, ranging from pristine condition to labor-of-love. Some steel versions of the same designs are also still cruising. Good luck with your quest.
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