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Old 08-04-2015, 08:17 PM   #1
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question: "American Marine Diesel" ?

The yachtworld description of this Marine Trader says it has "American Marine Diesel" engines. Is this just another way of saying "Ford Lehman", or is there yet another diesel engine manufacturer called "American Marine Diesel"?

1987 Marine Trader Classic Double Cabin Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 08-04-2015, 08:41 PM   #2
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I looked at the engine pictures in that ad and while the engine is a ford, it is not a Lehman 135. I suspect it may be the same base engine but it was marinized by a different company. I believe there were several.

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Old 08-04-2015, 09:13 PM   #3
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Hmmm--- The engines appear to be an FL135 in that ithey're red, which all Lehman's that had the Lehman marination kit installed by Lehman were, and it has the chromed valve cover, which FL135s tend to have. I've had no direct experience with FL135s so I can't tell from the details if the engine is or isn't an FL135.

American Marine was the company that made Grand Banks boats until they more recently reorganized and changed the name to Grand Banks, Llc.

In the early 1970s American Marine decided they could save some money by buying the base engine for the FL120, the Ford Dorset, directly from Ford of England and buying the marinzation kit from Lehman and installing the kit themselves in Singapore right next to the boats the engines were going into. The resulting engine is identical to the FL120s that had their Lehman marinzation kits installed by Lehman in New Jersey.

But this idea proved not to be a cost saving after all, so after a few years American Marine went back to buying the already marinzed engines from Lehman.

FL120s that had the Lehman kit put on by American Marine next to the Grand Banks boat the engine(s) were going into were painted a metallic olive green or a sort of gold-yellow color. Our 1973 boat has a pair of these engines in it. They were originally the olive green until a previous owner painted them Alpine (Detroit) Green.

If American Marine installed Lehman FL135 marinization kits on the Ford Dover engine, the base engine for the FL135, I have never heard of this but that doesn't mean they didn't do it. American Marine was in and out of financial trouble for decades so perhaps they did put Lehman marninzation kits on Dover engines, paint them red and put on a chrome valve cover and sold them in Asia as FL135s as an agent for Lehman in New Jersey to make some extra income.

Ken is correct in that the Ford of England Dorset and Dover engines were marinized by a number of different companies around the world. Lehman is the best known, but they were not the only ones by any means. And there may have been another company called "American Marine" back then that did engine marinizations but was a totally separate entity from the American Marine that produced Grand Banks boats.
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:40 PM   #4
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It looks like a Lehman 135 or American Diesel Corps 6N140 by Bob Smith which is supposed to be a drop in replacement for Lehmans. Since both boat and engines are 1987, I think Lehman 135s were still being installed. The ADC came later. Maybe the exhaust manifolds were replaced with ADC manifolds which are marked as such in large letters.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:07 PM   #5
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Yes, boat brokerages and listing outfits like Yachtworld are notorious for getting the wrong information into their listings.

We had the badly designed exhaust systems on our boat replaced a couple of years after we bought the boat with custom-designed systems. The new exhaust elbows that were attached to our 1973 FL120s are from American Diesel and have ADC in raised letters on the casting (photo) The upper half of our elbow looks like the one in the picture of the red FL135 in the listing.

I can certainly see a listing outfit mixing up the name American Marine with American Diesel.
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Old 08-04-2015, 10:46 PM   #6
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Yeah, as an owner of 2 FL135's I can see a number of items that are not the same. The exhaust manifold and injection elbow, the coolant expansion tank and piping, the oil filter mount, the location of the heat exchanger to name a few. ADC is clearly visible on one of the castings, too.

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Old 08-04-2015, 10:52 PM   #7
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Perhaps this boat had its original engines replaced with the ADC drop-in they used to offer. ADC was offering this replacement engine in the 1990s and early 2000s as I recall. I don't think they have done so for some years now as I believe Ford stopped making the base engine ADC was using. Either that or ADC couldn't bring them into the US anymore for some reason.
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
Perhaps this boat had its original engines replaced with the ADC drop-in they used to offer. ADC was offering this replacement engine in the 1990s and early 2000s as I recall. I don't think they have done so for some years now as I believe Ford stopped making the base engine ADC was using. Either that or ADC couldn't bring them into the US anymore for some reason.
They were forced to stop selling their drop ins because of the emissions laws that took effect in 2007(I think). The same year VW did not import a Diesel Jetta for the same reason. ADC does still offer rebuilds of Lehmans but you have to send them the core. They cannot legally build an engine that does not comply with the most recent emissions standards.
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:59 PM   #9
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They cannot legally build an engine that does not comply with the most recent emissions standards.
Thanks for the explanation, John.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:04 PM   #10
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and the answer is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by seattleboatguy View Post
The yachtworld description of this Marine Trader says it has "American Marine Diesel" engines. Is this just another way of saying "Ford Lehman", or is there yet another diesel engine manufacturer called "American Marine Diesel"?
Bob Smith from American Diesel was kind enough to answer my question. Sounds like you guys were on the right track. Many thanks for all the input. Here is the word from the master himself:

The engine in this boat is one of my ADC 6N136 Engines. It uses the same Ford Dover engine block as did Lehman with their SP135. Are parts available, sure are - - - in fact customers with the Lehman SP135 have to use our ADC exhaust manifold when the Lehman manifold cracks. The Lehman manifold is not available and has not been for years. Our ADC 6N136 is like a Mark II of the Lehman 120 with many interchangeable parts. That's why it looks a lot like the 120 Lehman. Bottom line it is my later design of a 120.
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:32 PM   #11
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Great job of tracking down the accurate, correct answer from the most credible source in existence. I'm impressed because more and more people seem incapable of figuring out how to do this. Thanks for taking the time to do this because not only do we have the correct answer, I learned someting important in the process.
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Old 08-06-2015, 10:21 AM   #12
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question: "American Marine Diesel" ?

In 2007 I repowered my Willard 40 with the ADC N6-140, replacing the original Lehman 120. I believe ADC imported a bunch of these engines as serial numbers only...my engine was brand new not a rebuild. The significant improvements/modifications include: enhanced fresh water cooling to the #6 cylinder, improved air-intake filtration, modified water pump/alternator belt arrangement for easy replacement, and dramatically increased fuel flow to injectors to provide cooling. And the price was right at only $13,500.
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