Pump Out Rant

[rslifkin]

Fortunately most places don't charge by volume for pump outs, which makes me appreciate having a 70 gallon holding tank. Makes finding a pumpout less of a concern and means that I don't have to pay for it as frequently when there's not a free one around. It does slightly annoy me that my home marina charges $10 though (and no discount if you buy fuel while you're there).

 

[dhays]

As for NDZ, it is a bit of a joke here in the PNW... we cant discharge treated waste yet in June? July... it was something like 100,000-200,000 gallons of untreated waste was pumped into the sound! No fines or repercussions as it was the "city" who owns the propblem. It's simply bizarrely political.

Actually, this is not true. King County and the City of Seattle have been hit with very large fines over the past 5 years for various violations. Some of these relate to too much acidity and other standards that they are subject to. King County and the City of Seattle have been required to implement a plan that will reduce/eliminate violations.

The incident in July is being investigated and if it is anything like the past, the rate payers will be paying for new fines implemented like they have the past fines.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Not a pump out story, but in my boat I had a new holding tank installed some time back, but for lack of foresight left in the old busted Macerator! Don't ask me why, just a senior moment I guess. Anyway a month or so ago, I took that old thing right out, plumbed the hose from the tank directly to the overboard valve. Bit of a stinky job but less than expected. I at least did have the foresight to empty the tank! Valve is closed and handle is off and not in plain view. Emergency only.

 

[KipBrundage]

Pump outs, Seriously in Washington

Unless it is a pump out service, they are free and you are complaining? Use you your phone or better yet use your radio, channel 16 (anybody remember the radio) and call ahead. No pun intended, out east every pump out will cost you, what do you expect for free (it is a lottery out there as well)? This is pump out heaven compared to the East Coast! It might be the only thing I find cheaper but I appreciate it!
Saludos- La Cubanita


PS - in all humility this is written after spending a morning clearing a vent line that was plugged because the pump out service missed a week. life is definitely not perfect.



Remember it is a boat and Murphy's law applies cubed!


Buenas Viajes - La Cubanita

 

[SoWhat]

Back in 92/93 Feds were throwing money at marinas under the Clean Vessel Act Grant Program to install pump out stations. CVA still gives out money but no longer the full monty. They only have a 10 year useful life so States must decide to apply for maintenance grants or new installation grants. They might receive full grant, partial, or nothing. Under CVA grant they can only charge $5. Not exactly a profit maker.

What drive me crazy?
"MRWC estimates that in 2018 alone, at least 770 million gallons of untreated sewage were dumped into the Merrimack River due to combined sewer overflows from six urban sewage treatment systems in the Merrimack watershed."
They are worried about my 20 gallon holding tank???

 

[O C Diver]

Man am I glad I don't boat wherever you guys go. Both my Summer and Winter marinas have free pump outs (just tip the dock hand). The summer marina will let you do it yourself 24/7. It's really rare to be charged by a marina as I'm usually paying for dockage or buying fuel. Don't think I've ever paid over $10 when charged.

With a 80 gallon tank, I don't let it get over 3/4 full, so never a need to pump overboard.

Ted

 

[dhays]

Unless it is a pump out service, they are free and you are complaining? Use you your phone or better yet use your radio, channel 16 (anybody remember the radio) and call ahead. No pun intended, out east every pump out will cost you, what do you expect for free (it is a lottery out there as well)? This is pump out heaven compared to the East Coast! It might be the only thing I find cheaper but I appreciate it!

Understand that Puget Sound is a lot different than some other parts of the US. For example, a lot of the pumpout facilities are operated by municipal systems. There is no marina office to call, no office attendants or dockhands to ask about the status of the pumpout.

Be aware that many of the pumpout facilities were paid for, in part, by federal or state grants. In some cases this was provisional on them being made available for no or low cost.

Also keep in mind that when you are 120 miles from a legal place to discharge overboard, functioning pump outs are very important. There also aren’t all that many available in some parts of Puget Sound. There are times when it may be a 5 hour run to the nearest pump-out with no way to call ahead to ensure that it is working. That can lead to more than a little frustration.

 

[Gdavid]

Understand that Puget Sound is a lot different than some other parts of the US. For example, a lot of the pumpout facilities are operated by municipal systems. There is no marina office to call, no office attendants or dockhands to ask about the status of the pumpout.

Be aware that many of the pumpout facilities were paid for, in part, by federal or state grants. In some cases this was provisional on them being made available for no or low cost.

Also keep in mind that when you are 120 miles from a legal place to discharge overboard, functioning pump outs are very important. There also aren’t all that many available in some parts of Puget Sound. There are times when it may be a 5 hour run to the nearest pump-out with no way to call ahead to ensure that it is working. That can lead to more than a little frustration.

It would be in the interest of all parties if the operating status of the equipment was readily communicated and grace to pump treated waste (lectrasan, purasan, etc) further from shore rather than a boater reaching a destination, expecting to be able to pump out, only to find the equipment down where two hours ago he/she had just passed through a major channel with a good tidal movement. I realize we hare talking about a small percentage of boaters who have treatment systems but it just really seems like we are punishing the folks that try to abide by the rules.

 

[Bacchus]

I don't agree with dumping untreated waste by municipalities but that's a different matter than pump outs and should not justify any dumping in our waters IMO.
Most non- working pump outs I've run into in the East have been free ones installed by municipalities, I'm assuming using grant $. The problem in my mind is they do not plan for and don't want to spend $ for attendants, maintenance or replacement. The results I've seen are missing or broken parts parts and no incentive to do the repair / replace.
I'd rather pay a nominal amount and be able to count on it working.

 

[dhays]

I realize we hare talking about a small percentage of boaters who have treatment systems but it just really seems like we are punishing the folks that try to abide by the rules.

Agreed.

Disclosure: I was not affected by the NDZ. I don’t have a treatment system so have always had to pump out anyway (except in Juan de Fuca). In fact, the move to the NDZ has resulted in more pump-outs being made available to me. So in some ways I have actually benefited from the NDZ. Even so, I think it is unfair to those who do have treatment systems and altogether unnecessary.

 

[wkearney99]

I think the important part take-away here is that in some areas there's no reliable way to determine ahead of time if there's going to be a working pump-out.

In the PNW specifically, but apparently also in other areas. Areas that had pump-out gear added in the recent past using 'grant money' that hasn't been kept in working order. Made worse by the lack of means for a boater to figure it out.

 

[porman]

We just returned from our Summer cruise in the Broughton Islands in British Columbia. I was amused by several of the pump out facilities that removed the waste from the boat, sent it into the local sewer, where it then went out a pipe into the nearest body of water, untreated.

 

[CaptTom]

I think the important part take-away here is that in some areas there's no reliable way to determine ahead of time if there's going to be a working pump-out.

I know I always mention it in Active Captain reviews, if a pump-out isn't working or if there's some quirk to it. Maybe if more people did that, it would help.

 

[Skipper41]

Wondering if it's just my bad luck or are others experiencing this as well, but I have run into more non-working pump out stations this year than ever! It's especially frustrating when you don't find out it's on the blink until you've docked and tied up, essentially wasting a good docking job on nothing!

I found that to be true this summer while cruising the Trent Severn Waterway. At the huge marina in Peterborough the pumpout had not worked for 2 1/2 months. And this is a repeated problem. One captain said he had been there twice before and it was not working either time. Inexcusable.

 

[sum escape]

I found that to be true this summer while cruising the Trent Severn Waterway. At the huge marina in Peterborough the pumpout had not worked for 2 1/2 months. And this is a repeated problem. One captain said he had been there twice before and it was not working either time. Inexcusable.

We found the same thing....both this summer and last that particular pump out was "broken" along the Trent Severn. And had a similar experience with a marina on the Rideau waterway recently that advertised a pump out but upon arrival dockhands said it had been out of service a long time. So it is not just the US! It is annoying but one always needs a back up plan (no pun intended)
Lying Burton Island, Lake Champlain

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

There are times when it may be a 5 hour run to the nearest pump-out with no way to call ahead to ensure that it is working. That can lead to more than a little frustration.

Not frustration. Sorry there is NO WAY I would steam 5 hours just to dump my sh$t tank. Nor would most boaters/Cruisers..

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

Actually, this is not true. King County and the City of Seattle have been hit with very large fines over the past 5 years for various violations. Some of these relate to too much acidity and other standards that they are subject to. King County and the City of Seattle have been required to implement a plan that will reduce/eliminate violations.

The incident in July is being investigated and if it is anything like the past, the rate payers will be paying for new fines implemented like they have the past fines.

The rate payers will pay the fine by charging by the flush! No skin off of King County's or State legislatures.

I say jail them up and take responsibility.

 

[wkearney99]

Not frustration. Sorry there is NO WAY I would steam 5 hours just to dump my sh$t tank. Nor would most boaters/Cruisers..

I'm guessing the point is after taking an already planned 5 hour trip the expectation is finding a working pumpout, not to literally take a 5 hour trip just for that.

 

[catalinajack]

Agreed.

Disclosure: I was not affected by the NDZ. I don’t have a treatment system so have always had to pump out anyway (except in Juan de Fuca). In fact, the move to the NDZ has resulted in more pump-outs being made available to me. So in some ways I have actually benefited from the NDZ. Even so, I think it is unfair to those who do have treatment systems and altogether unnecessary.

I do not have a Type 1 treatment system like a Purasan. I do understand that using a Type 1 in a NDZ is not legal but here is a practical question. Since the discharge from a Purasan has less "bad stuff" than the effluent from any municipal sewage treatment, why would anyone have a guilty conscience about using it in a NDZ? And, how in that huge waterway (Puget Sound) would any LEO discover it since the discharge water is cleaner. If I had a Purasan, I would use it anywhere I damn please.

 

[Nomad Willy]

A few days ago I used the pump-out at LaConner. Works fine.

 

[dhays]

The rate payers will pay the fine by charging by the flush! No skin off of King County's or State legislatures.



I say jail them up and take responsibility.

I like the idea. Even better, make them list a surcharge on the utility bill for the rate payers. That will generate a lot of attention.

 

[BandB]

I do not have a Type 1 treatment system like a Purasan. I do understand that using a Type 1 in a NDZ is not legal but here is a practical question. Since the discharge from a Purasan has less "bad stuff" than the effluent from any municipal sewage treatment, why would anyone have a guilty conscience about using it in a NDZ? And, how in that huge waterway (Puget Sound) would any LEO discover it since the discharge water is cleaner. If I had a Purasan, I would use it anywhere I damn please.

If they do an inspection, you better have it disabled. They don't discover you using it, they discover it being usable, which is a violation and fine.

Yes, it's annoying having such systems and not being able to use them. Most of our cruising is coastal and we run outside so discharge, even treated, 3+ miles offshore. We do use pump outs when we stay places for a while. We used pump outs more on the inland portion of the loop than the entire remainder of our boating. Very seldom reached a marina where the pump out wasn't working and it was only a short time and they were very apologetic.

Someone mentioned reviewing on Active Captain. I'd add to that, hold marinas accountable. Ask in advance and if their pump out isn't working, don't give them your business. Make sure they know what it's costing them. I've heard you give them the business over showers and restrooms, do it on pumpouts. Buy your fuel only at marinas with working pump outs. Call in advance and ask. Write their owner. I know a group of owners went on a letter writing campaign over several matters, writing the major marina management company's corporate officers. In less than two weeks, someone from corporate was onsite, the dockmaster was gone, and the items complained about were all being worked on. Post a Google or Yelp review too. If the manager won't fix the problem, go over their head. If it's municipal and the operator isn't taking care of it, go to the town managers. Last thing they want to be getting calls on is pump outs.

It's fine to rant here, but if that's the limit of your ranting, then you're not doing anything toward improving the situation. Do more.

 

[dhays]

I'm guessing the point is after taking an already planned 5 hour trip the expectation is finding a working pumpout, not to literally take a 5 hour trip just for that.

Not necessarily. It depends on your speed. We try to incorportate our pump-outs so it is done either at our destination or on the way. It usually works out well as we have two pump-outs in Gig Harbor that are well maintained and available 24/7. However, I’m slow and frequently the currents in my area approach my boat speed. Say I’m in Shelton. It is a 3.5 hour trip to the nearest pump-out. That would be 7 hours round trip. So, Shelton is not a place I could go stay for more than several days with 4-5 folks.

We do go to Oro Bay on Anderson Island a lot. It is a couple hours from there to the nearest pump-out. If that one isn’t working it is another couple hours to the next closest. So that can be a lot of travel just to empty a holding tank. Again, the South Sound has geographical issues that make placing convenient pump-outs difficult. Unfortunately, the South Sound is also more sensitive to sewage so it is even more important.

There is a website that shows all the pumpout available in WA, and it shows what hours they are supposedly available if applicable. However, there is no way to tell if they are actually working or not.

 

[catalinajack]

If they do an inspection, you better have it disabled. They don't discover you using it, they discover it being usable, which is a violation and fine.

Yes, it's annoying having such systems and not being able to use them. Most of our cruising is coastal and we run outside so discharge, even treated, 3+ miles offshore. We do use pump outs when we stay places for a while. We used pump outs more on the inland portion of the loop than the entire remainder of our boating. Very seldom reached a marina where the pump out wasn't working and it was only a short time and they were very apologetic.

Someone mentioned reviewing on Active Captain. I'd add to that, hold marinas accountable. Ask in advance and if their pump out isn't working, don't give them your business. Make sure they know what it's costing them. I've heard you give them the business over showers and restrooms, do it on pumpouts. Buy your fuel only at marinas with working pump outs. Call in advance and ask. Write their owner. I know a group of owners went on a letter writing campaign over several matters, writing the major marina management company's corporate officers. In less than two weeks, someone from corporate was onsite, the dockmaster was gone, and the items complained about were all being worked on. Post a Google or Yelp review too. If the manager won't fix the problem, go over their head. If it's municipal and the operator isn't taking care of it, go to the town managers. Last thing they want to be getting calls on is pump outs.

It's fine to rant here, but if that's the limit of your ranting, then you're not doing anything toward improving the situation. Do more.

Disabling to an inspector's satisfaction is not difficult. There are many ways. This comes up for a discussion almost every year on the AGCLA website with respect to Lake Champlain. On my boat the through hull is an old style cone type which is spun locked in the closed position. Had the Coasties aboard once and they were okay with it. Other ways: wire tied, safety cover on switch, removal the hose connection, removing the wiring all of which are easily reversed which makes the entire regime wholly ridiculous.

 

[BandB]

Disabling to an inspector's satisfaction is not difficult. There are many ways. This comes up for a discussion almost every year on the AGCLA website with respect to Lake Champlain. On my boat the through hull is an old style cone type which is spun locked in the closed position. Had the Coasties aboard once and they were okay with it. Other ways: wire tied, safety cover on switch, removal the hose connection, removing the wiring all of which are easily reversed which makes the entire regime wholly ridiculous.

You omitted the easiest. Flip lever, insert lock.

 

[Alaskan Sea-Duction]

If they do an inspection, you better have it disabled. They don't discover you using it, they discover it being usable, which is a violation and fine.

Yes, it's annoying having such systems and not being able to use them. Most of our cruising is coastal and we run outside so discharge, even treated, 3+ miles offshore. We do use pump outs when we stay places for a while. We used pump outs more on the inland portion of the loop than the entire remainder of our boating. Very seldom reached a marina where the pump out wasn't working and it was only a short time and they were very apologetic.

Someone mentioned reviewing on Active Captain. I'd add to that, hold marinas accountable. Ask in advance and if their pump out isn't working, don't give them your business. Make sure they know what it's costing them. I've heard you give them the business over showers and restrooms, do it on pumpouts. Buy your fuel only at marinas with working pump outs. Call in advance and ask. Write their owner. I know a group of owners went on a letter writing campaign over several matters, writing the major marina management company's corporate officers. In less than two weeks, someone from corporate was onsite, the dockmaster was gone, and the items complained about were all being worked on. Post a Google or Yelp review too. If the manager won't fix the problem, go over their head. If it's municipal and the operator isn't taking care of it, go to the town managers. Last thing they want to be getting calls on is pump outs.

It's fine to rant here, but if that's the limit of your ranting, then you're not doing anything toward improving the situation. Do more.

Good point!

 

[Comodave]

I agree, complaining here doesn’t do much except letting people vent. What really counts is complaining to the correct people. When I complain, I am very courteous but firm with, not the low level person that happens to answer the phone, but a higher level manager. I list my complaints and suggest what should be done to correct the problem. Then I give whatever credit is legitimate if at all possible. I don’t just want to complain but also give credit where someone did anything right. It gives my complaint more legitimacy since I am not just another ass yelling and cursing at them. I ask that the person that did something, anything right be given credit to his supervisor. I find companies will treat my complaint better if I am telling them they are doing something right, also it does give the person that did something right encouragement to do something right the next time.

 

[BandB]

I agree, complaining here doesn’t do much except letting people vent. What really counts is complaining to the correct people. When I complain, I am very courteous but firm with, not the low level person that happens to answer the phone, but a higher level manager. I list my complaints and suggest what should be done to correct the problem. Then I give whatever credit is legitimate if at all possible. I don’t just want to complain but also give credit where someone did anything right. It gives my complaint more legitimacy since I am not just another ass yelling and cursing at them. I ask that the person that did something, anything right be given credit to his supervisor. I find companies will treat my complaint better if I am telling them they are doing something right, also it does give the person that did something right encouragement to do something right the next time.

Something to remember about those "higher level people." They hate having to deal with things. They are inclined to not get involved. However, if they get enough complaints they tend to fix things so they don't have to deal with any more.