Propane Locker

[Solitude 1]

Hi, We have a 34 CHB trawler and need to add a Propane Locker. The current setup isn't to ABYC standards. I would like to mount it in the space in front of the upper helm.
Any thoughts on what product would work best?
Thank you !

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Welcome aboard.

 

[Marin]

Given the number of penetrations between the flying bridge console and the lower helm/main cabin on most boats, turning it into a propane locker could be problematical. The locker needs to vent overboard and there must be no means for propane to flow down and into the interior of the boat.

Some boats, like Grand Banks, use one of the flying bridge seat bases as a propane locker. On our boat it's the port seat base. There are no penetrations through the bottom or sides of this space other than the vent overboard out the port side, the propane line itself, and the handle of the manual propane shutoff valve which emerges from the galley overhead below. All of these penetrations along with the mounting hardware for the two propane tanks, are heavily sealed.

 

[rwidman]

Hi, We have a 34 CHB trawler and need to add a Propane Locker. The current setup isn't to ABYC standards. I would like to mount it in the space in front of the upper helm.
Any thoughts on what product would work best?
Thank you !

You can buy factory made propane lockers and if you install them according to ABYC standards this would be the best plan.

 

[Marin]

Wes offers a good suggestion, I think. If you're contemplating installing a stand-alone, properly designed and constructed locker inside the flying bridge console, that could work if the venting requirements are met.

If you are thinking of turning the inside of the console itself into a propane locker, which is how I first read your post, that could be problematical.

 

[koliver]

Most Taiwan built trawlers used that space for the propane locker.
There will be one, two or more cable chases taking electrical, mechanical or hydraulic lines from the lower deck to the upper, most often coming up the window mullion, or, as in GBs up a 3" metal pipe in front of the lower helm. You need o be sure those are filled with polysulfide or some other filler that renders them impermeable to propane gas. If you can do that, the next thing to look for is overboard venting of the bottom of the locker, so that any leaking gas will not find its way into the cabin below, eg into an open window or door on the deck below. Then you need a gas line that complies with ABYC, ie no joins after it leaves the propane locker, until it reaches the appliance it feeds. Don't know what your question is about, as my minds eye sees only a gas line and some sealing materials, maybe a vent cover or a drain hose. Others will certainly add.

 

[Marin]

On a GB you do not want to be filling the cable chase with anything. The steering cable between the upper and lower helms runs through it and if you want to be able to move your rudders, the chase needs to remain clear and open at the top and bottom. There are also various electrical wires run up around the inside circumference of the chase and these can need replacing, changing or added to as electrical and electcronic components are upgraded or changed out. This makes it pretty important to keep that tube accessible.

I don't know anything aobut the Taiwan boats so have no idea how easy it would be to isolate the interior of the flying bridge console from the cabin below.

 

[boatpoker]

Take a look at Safe Boat Propane Installations

 

[alormaria]

Hi, I too have a 34 CHB(Marine Trader) and I mounted one of those self contained propane lockers up in the flybridge just where the old propane tank used to be mounted. I've had it surveyed several times since then and each surveyor fell down upon seeing it. They are so used to the usual slap dash propane install on our boats that they have been rendered speechless. Running an overboard discharge was no problem and I replaced the copper line to the stove with a flexible line. We have always had a leak detector since the first summer we owned her.
Make your surveyor's day as well as keeping your family safe and install a correct propane locker.

 

[boatpoker]

Those self contained polyethylene propane lockers are fine. just make sure the drain line is continuous and exits through the side of the hull without any low spots. Too many people fit them under the flying bridge coaming and terminate the drain hose just outside the coaming and above the pilot house side windows.

 

[Solitude 1]

Thank you all so far. The current tank is in the Flybridge with a gas sensor/shut off valve and I would prefer to follow the rules and have it in an enclosed locker. Looking to the group for ideas and support.. Where it is makes me nervous as any leaks would bring gas into the cabin or engine space and neither would be good.

 

[TDunn]

Trident sells nice propane lockers that will do the job easily. They are not cheap though.

 

[FF]

Its not just the box the bottles are kept in,

there are concerns about window and vent locations below, the bottle could vent into.

 

[rwidman]

Thank you all so far. The current tank is in the Flybridge with a gas sensor/shut off valve and I would prefer to follow the rules and have it in an enclosed locker. Looking to the group for ideas and support.. Where it is makes me nervous as any leaks would bring gas into the cabin or engine space and neither would be good.

Let me make my post (above) a little more clear. Get out your West Marine catalog and look up "propane locker". Select one that suits your needs and will fit and buy and install it. Your main difficulty will be running the drain hose from the flybridge to just above the waterline.

Make sure you read and understand the ABYC standards or hire an experienced installer.

 

[Solitude 1]

Thank you-Propane

Thanks WesK,
I have been researching the locker options and I am familiar with 33CFT requirements. I am hoping someone has used creativity that I may be missing as to the location and feasibilty to make it a less obvious item on deck and I would like insight as to how to run the drain overboard without going through the engine space or on the side decks.
Thoughts?
L Matt Ahlman

 

[rwidman]

Mine is built into the boat but it's in the cockpit. That makes it far easier to run the drain line. It's behind the ladder to the flybridge so it doesn't really take up any space.


Don't overlook the possibility of placing it somewhere other than where it is now.

 

[READY2GO]

Thanks WesK,
I have been researching the locker options and I am familiar with 33CFT requirements. I am hoping someone has used creativity that I may be missing as to the location and feasibilty to make it a less obvious item on deck and I would like insight as to how to run the drain overboard without going through the engine space or on the side decks.
Thoughts?
L Matt Ahlman

One day not long after we bought the boat I went down into the Vee berth and opened up the storage locker and the smell of propane about knocked me out. The propane bottle was under the flybridge dash and a connection began leaking. The gas went down the chase for the engine controls and wiring, which is also the route the rubber propane hose took to get to the range. I was reworking the flybridge at the time so it was a good time to move the bottle out of the dash. I moved a Todd brand seat that had been facing forward up by the dash to the starboard side. I raised it up enough and cut a hole in the bottom of it to accommodate the bottle. It is directly above the range. I installed the propane hose to go through the flybridge and straight down to the range. Now there is only 5'of hose inside the boat instead of 25'.

Yes I know this is probably not abyc compliant but it is 100 times better than factory. I did have the boat surveyed this year and expected him to write something up about it but he did not say a word about it. He did write me up on the extra propane bottle I had lashed to the rail though.

 

[Marin]

Looks like a smart solution to me.

 

[boatpoker]

Thanks WesK,
I have been researching the locker options and I am familiar with 33CFT requirements.
L Matt Ahlman

What are "33CFT" requirements ?

 

[Steve]

How about "hanging" or mounting the locker on the outside of the transom, running the hose through to the Galley from there. I haven't read the regs but imagine the locker could simply drain overboard there.

 

[koliver]

Mike:
I sent you a PM.

 

[boatpoker]

How about "hanging" or mounting the locker on the outside of the transom, running the hose through to the Galley from there. I haven't read the regs but imagine the locker could simply drain overboard there.

There are no "regs" in Canada or US for pleasure craft, only ABYC Standards.
ABYC Standard A-1 does apply to US vessels carrying passengers for hire.

 

[fryedaze]

Homemade

I built a box out of Starboard. It probably wouldn't pass and standards checks but I believe it is safe. It has a vent at the very bottom that goes overboard. I installed propane sensors at the box and at the floor near the stove. The sensors shut the propane solenoid in the box. I am too cheap to buy an off the shelf model.

 

[boatpoker]

It probably wouldn't pass and standards checks

Absolutely correct.

I believe it is safe.

Not so much.

 

[Forkliftt]

Very nice looking job Dave.


1983 Present 42 Sundeck
Twin Lehman 135's

 

[Slowboat 37]

Our surveyor told us we had to move the tanks from under the cowling because of none compliance with codes. that was seven years ago. The lockers at the marine stores were unattractive and too much $. We found a teak cooler intended for poolside use that as far as I can tell complied with the rules. It opens without tools, is sealed with a gasket and has a little spigot for drainage that works as a vent. It's location is not over an opening widow. We put a horizontal tank inside and a bottle opener on the front. It came unfinished so we used Cetol to match our rails.

 

[Steve DAntonio]

Installing an off the shelf, compliant locker makes very good sense. Using an existing vessel locker, which is possible, is much more challenging. Among other things it can't be used for storage of other gear and it must have a horizontal rather than vertical hatch.

If the off the shelf locker you purchase is installed inside one of the vessel's own lockers ABYC does weigh in on how this must be done in order to remain compliant (see italicized section), saying...


"Lockers used to contain LPG cylinders, cylinder valves, regulating equipment and safety devices shall be designed to minimize the likelihood of use as a gear storage locker and shall be

1.8.1.1 vapor tight to the hull interior, and

1.8.1.2 located above the waterline, and

1.8.1.3 constructed of, or lined with, corrosion resistant materials, and

1.8.1.4 shall open only from the top with a gasketed cover that shall latch tightly, and

1.8.1.5 shall be capable of being quickly and conveniently opened without tools.

1.8.2 Installation
1.8.2.1 LPG lockers shall be installed so that the locker opens only directly to the outside atmosphere, and

1.8.2.2 if a LPG locker is installed inside a boat locker, the LPG locker shall be located as high and as close to the boat locker’s opening as possible in order to comply with A-1.8.2.1. (Italics mine)"
(Excerpted from ABYC A-1 Standards and Technical Information Reports for Small Craft July 15-16, this is not the complete standard)

The ABYC LPG standard, A-1, is among the shortest in the book, yet it is also among the most challenging with which to comply. If you are doing this yourself be sure you fully understand the requirements. If you are having someone else carry out the installation, ensure they agree to do so in a manner that is fully compliant with ABYC A-1.

 

[oscar]

Don't like propane on boats, or gasoline engines for that matter. An outboard on deck is one thing. Hundreds of gallons down below is another. Seen to many that blew up.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

One day not long after we bought the boat I went down into the Vee berth and opened up the storage locker and the smell of propane about knocked me out. The propane bottle was under the flybridge dash and a connection began leaking. The gas went down the chase for the engine controls and wiring, which is also the route the rubber propane hose took to get to the range. I was reworking the flybridge at the time so it was a good time to move the bottle out of the dash. I moved a Todd brand seat that had been facing forward up by the dash to the starboard side. I raised it up enough and cut a hole in the bottom of it to accommodate the bottle. It is directly above the range. I installed the propane hose to go through the flybridge and straight down to the range. Now there is only 5'of hose inside the boat instead of 25'.

Yes I know this is probably not abyc compliant but it is 100 times better than factory. I did have the boat surveyed this year and expected him to write something up about it but he did not say a word about it. He did write me up on the extra propane bottle I had lashed to the rail though.

View attachment 47361

View attachment 47362

View attachment 47363

I would just suggest putting something under the bottom of the tank to raise it up off the floor so it doesn't leave a rust ring on the floor.

Or just changing the bottle out to a fiberglass one that can't rust.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

I built a box out of Starboard. It probably wouldn't pass and standards checks but I believe it is safe. It has a vent at the very bottom that goes overboard. I installed propane sensors at the box and at the floor near the stove. The sensors shut the propane solenoid in the box. I am too cheap to buy an off the shelf model.

If you can't change it to top opening, you should at the very least make sure it's air tight when the door is closed with better latches as well as that the box is vented out the side of the helm space.

The way it looks now the box doesn't look air tight and it's not much better than if the bottle, regulator and hoses were just mounted open under the helm in the open.

But then again, there are lots of old boats out there with non compliant propane installations and they aren't blowing up right and left all over the place.