Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-14-2019, 08:09 AM   #1
Member
 
City: Lakeland, Fl
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14
Previous hull damage

Looking for some opinions on this one.


Currently shopping for a boat. Found one that ticks all my boxes. Its not too far away, very good shape, maintained well, clean engine room etc. Price is probably at market ask, maybe 5% or so higher than market ask.



The story is this. The boat was listed last year. During this period it was on the hard for a while for service. It was hit in the yard by a drunk driver (yikes) and sustained damage. According to the broker there was prop, propshaft and hull damage. The boat was professionally repaired, has a new hull paint job, bottom job, new prop and new propshaft. He says the hull damage did not penetrate the entire hull. I am currently waiting for pictures of the damage pre repair and the repair order to see exactly what they did.



The boat in question is a cored boat. The hullsides and top are definitely baltek balsa coring and the bottom is either baltek or corecell (unclear).



What are ya'lls opinions on this. I know if done right it can be as good as new, but I have a few lingering questions.



- Does damage like this diminish the value of the boat? What are we talking 10%? 20%?
- What are the risks of these repairs, assuming its just the outer skin and maybe some coring material that had to be repaired.
__________________
Advertisement

wallyman424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 08:35 AM   #2
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,789
We had a boat that was dropped when the rear strap of the travel lift broke. $66K worth of insurance money later the boat was worth more than before. The rudder had to be rebuilt, the keel repaired, new shaft, shaft log and the list goes on including new fuel tanks. The hull was cored with Airex. When it came time to sell the boat 10 years later, the documentation and pictures helped sell it. Rob Eberly, in New Bern did the survey for the buyers.

With the accident pictures, the repair order and a good survey you should be able to determine if the repairs were done correctly. You have a new paint job, shaft, prop, hulls been painted, etc. A 5% higher selling price, who knows? I'd go into with my eyes wide open but I wouldn't cross it off my list. either.
__________________

Larry M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 08:37 AM   #3
Guru
 
North Baltic sea's Avatar
 
Country: Finland
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 913
Hi,


Many open questions?


Basically, a well repaired glass fiber damage is OK and I do not think that it justifies a price reduction.


But, if the bottom of the boat is also a cored of structure and the accident has allowed the water to be absorbed into the filling is the demanding correction, because the filling should be dry or the entire wet area can be changed and it can be remarkably wide because the water is capillary, this must be done carefully before the fiberglass repair.


Be careful and carefully examine the report on repair and moisture measurements, if you make a clouse the offer for a boat, do a good survey of the person who understands the cored structure, perhaps the most reliable way to detect moisture in the cored structure is thermal imaging, no moisture metres.


NBs
North Baltic sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 08:46 AM   #4
Member
 
City: Lakeland, Fl
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14
Thanks,


I guess the good thing is the boat was not in the water when all this happened, so the likelihood of water intrusion into the core material is pretty low.



Very curious to see the damage pictures and repair report.
wallyman424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 09:13 AM   #5
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,462
It all depends on what the quality of the repairs are. Done correctly, not a real problem. Done poorly, huge problem. Remember they probably will not give you a warranty on the repairs since you were not the customer. I would ask for a warranty if I made an offer. If they won’t give you one that would equal a large price reduction in my mind or I would walk away. There is a thread here recently on cored hulls. You might look at it.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 09:50 AM   #6
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
It all depends on what the quality of the repairs are. .
Yes

Talk to the yard that did the work and get details as to work performed on all items. This includes shaft alignment, cutlass bearings and vibration tested. Also, have a different pro yard guy look at the pictures the yard, the owner and insurance company took.

Why is boat being sold?
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 09:54 AM   #7
Member
 
City: Lakeland, Fl
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Yes

Talk to the yard that did the work and get details as to work performed on all items. This includes shaft alignment, cutlass bearings and vibration tested. Also, have a different pro yard guy look at the pictures the yard, the owner and insurance company took.

Why is boat being sold?
It was for sale prior to the accident happening as well and got pulled from the market to repair. I believe the folks are just getting out of boating.
wallyman424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 09:56 AM   #8
Guru
 
City: gulf coast
Country: pinellas
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 2,782
Internal structures such as stringers, ribs and engine mounts should be thoroughly inspected. The external things are easy to see and fix but hidden structural damage may be hard to see
bayview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 11:12 AM   #9
Guru
 
Ski in NC's Avatar
 
City: Wilmington, NC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Louisa
Vessel Model: Custom Built 38
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,307
A good repair in recent times should have photos documenting the whole process.

Ask for those.

Second all the others that if done right, not a big deal at all.

Devil is in the details, and the photos would help.
Ski in NC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 11:22 AM   #10
Member
 
City: Lakeland, Fl
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14
Yeah I think this has all been good info. Seems to confirm that as long as it was done right I should be ok. I'll definitely get all the pictures and repair write-up as well as talk to the yard. I know a surveyor locally that is supposed to be very versed in fiberglass moisture with thermal imaging and everything.

I think asking for a repair warranty is a great idea as well.
wallyman424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 11:27 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
MV Wanderlust's Avatar
 
City: Lakeland
Country: United States
Vessel Name: Wanderlust
Vessel Model: 1999 Jefferson Rivanna 52'
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 449
All made good points and I agree... if repaired properly, not necessarily a deal killer. Please post the pre-repair photos, once received.

By the way, we also live in Lakeland and our probably-new-to-us boat goes to survey and sea trial tomorrow. Exciting times, huh?
MV Wanderlust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 04:12 PM   #12
Member
 
City: Lakeland, Fl
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14
Ok here are the updates:


The Story: Boat was on the hard to repair prop and propshaft. The propshaft had broken and the boat was to get a new shaft, seal, bearings and prop. The boat was in the yard facing a road perpendicularly. A car spun off the road through some grass and clipped the bow, knocking the boat off its stands to the starboard. It landed on the starboard hull on top of a collapsed stand which caused the main penetration. There was also some rudder damage.



Attached are pictures of the bow damage, the hull and the hull zoomed in.



The repair receipt isnt very specific, just fiberglass repair, paint etc. Also mentions rudder box repair and rudder realignment. I'll try and give the yard a call this weekend to get some details.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Bow.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	137.1 KB
ID:	85397   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hull 1.jpg
Views:	87
Size:	102.0 KB
ID:	85398   Click image for larger version

Name:	Hullzoomed.jpg
Views:	130
Size:	173.2 KB
ID:	85399  
wallyman424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 04:20 PM   #13
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,789
I can’t tell from the pictures but how big an area is in picture 2? What’s the coring? And what did they do to restore the damaged core area? The third picture looks like the hull penetration went through the core into the inner skin.
Larry M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 04:23 PM   #14
Guru
 
Benthic2's Avatar
 
City: Boston Area
Country: United States
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,471
The damage doesn't seem that significant, but I'd be concerned that the prop shaft broke!! How does that happen ?? Is that a sign of a neglectful owner ??
Benthic2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 04:24 PM   #15
Guru
 
Comodave's Avatar
 
City: Au Gres, MI
Country: US
Vessel Name: Never Say Never
Vessel Model: President 41 DC
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 5,462
If it fell off the stands onto a hard surface then I would be concerned about the structural damage besides the obvious damage to the hull. Have all the bulkheads been checked for damage, loose at the hull joint? Engine beds and on and on. If it fell off then I would probably walk away.
Comodave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 04:28 PM   #16
Member
 
City: Lakeland, Fl
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benthic2 View Post
The damage doesn't seem that significant, but I'd be concerned that the prop shaft broke!! How does that happen ?? Is that a sign of a neglectful owner ??

That is a bizarre one, it doesnt seem to be a sign of neglect. The boat has probably the best service history I've seen. He showed me a picture of the shaft, it literally sheered. Its a single engine with keel and a sand shoe.



I'll have to call the yard this weekend and see what else they can tell me. Its a shame, its a really nice boat.
wallyman424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 04:30 PM   #17
Member
 
City: Lakeland, Fl
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comodave View Post
If it fell off the stands onto a hard surface then I would be concerned about the structural damage besides the obvious damage to the hull. Have all the bulkheads been checked for damage, loose at the hull joint? Engine beds and on and on. If it fell off then I would probably walk away.

Not really a "fall" persay, more of a tip over. The boat is a single engine with keel. It was resting on its keel with stands on either side to keep it upright. THe car hit the very tip of the bow and knocked it over onto the stand.



But yes, I agree I'm more worried about what can't be seen.
wallyman424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 04:32 PM   #18
Member
 
City: Lakeland, Fl
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
I canít tell from the pictures but how big an area is in picture 2? Whatís the coring? And what did they do to restore the damaged core area? The third picture looks like the hull penetration went through the core into the inner skin.

Its probably about a foot or so. The coring is balsa. I'll have to get more info about what they did for replacement coring.
wallyman424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 04:33 PM   #19
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 9,905
I recently walked on a balsa cored below (and above) the water boat, which had not(to my knowledge) been hit by a car.
You have 3 separate issues:1. Why it broke a propshaft and how well that was resolved, 2.Should you buy a "cored below water" boat with or without damage history,3.The state of the cored hull.
Pic 3 does not fill me with confidence. You have the advantage of viewing the exposed coring. I`ve not seen it before so I`m guessing, but that does not look good to me. When was the pic taken,? just after impact. Is the core condition fresh or old, it looks old to me.
As above,I come to this with a pre-existing view about cored hulls.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2019, 05:02 PM   #20
Member
 
City: Lakeland, Fl
Country: USA
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceK View Post
I recently walked on a balsa cored below (and above) the water boat, which had not(to my knowledge) been hit by a car.
You have 3 separate issues:1. Why it broke a propshaft and how well that was resolved, 2.Should you buy a "cored below water" boat with or without damage history,3.The state of the cored hull.
Pic 3 does not fill me with confidence. You have the advantage of viewing the exposed coring. I`ve not seen it before so I`m guessing, but that does not look good to me. When was the pic taken,? just after impact. Is the core condition fresh or old, it looks old to me.
As above,I come to this with a pre-existing view about cored hulls.

Yeah, I've gone back and forth myself a thousand times on the cored vs non cored issues, I'm not trying to get into that here, however based on those pictures the coring looks fine to me.



Its balsa, specifically baltek coring. Its not discolored, you can still see it looks like wood, splintering apart, not mushy.



The brain absolutely tells me to pass and wait, however i like the boat a lot.



And regarding the propshaft, I believe the prop struck something and it sheered off. The entire system has been replaced from the prop nut all the way to the engine mounting flange.
__________________

wallyman424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012
×