Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-02-2013, 05:25 PM   #1
Newbie
 
TonyL's Avatar
 
City: Kent Island, Md
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Side-by-Side
Vessel Model: Endeavour44
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2
Powercat trawlers vs traditional Trawlers

My wife and I now have been living on board for 18 years. The first 14 we were sailing to various parts of the world. Since our mast was not very handy for inland routes and we decided to now just explore the coast and the Bahamas/Caribean we started to search for a trawler. There are so many choices....all of them with pros and cons. With a bit of cat apprehension we chose an Endeavour44 power cat. Wow, all those negative comments we got from the mono crowd! From structural concerns to, "it can flip over in a big wave" stuff. From “slips will cost more” to “you can't find slips at all.” The surprise was when we talked with powercat owners. We got a completely different picture. Stability, economy, fast if you want to go fast (we are perfectly happy going 7 knots), and seaworthy…I can only speak for the Endeavour44. We have found the boat stable, and fully capable in handling busy ocean. I hate it when asked “what kind of seas can she take?” I usually say that we are fine in BIG seas with the wind and when we are against the wind…big spray, but the boat is fine. The reality is that with prudent weather planning the Endeavour does a very good job in the ocean. What about the myth about slip availability and cost? It is true that many marinas do not have slips wide enough for the 18 foot beam of the Endeavour, but that said, we have never had a problem finding a slip (usually a T-head) and have never paid extra because we were a cat. In the 4 years living on our Endeavour we have had zero structural or construction issues. I think many of those issues brought up come from the early era of cats when manufacturers didn’t know quite how to make a sturdy cat. Not so now.

I am not at all against traditional trawlers. The looks and their proven record is unmatched. That is a matter of taste. But I do take issue with the myths about power cats. They can be considered another form of trawler with their pro’s and cons.

How about the pros?

For us, they significantly out weigh the cons. The interior is everything your mate could desire. Roomy (3 queen size staterooms in a 44ft trawler!), luxurious quarters and very economical twin hull efficiency (about 3gph at 8knots}. You really have to live aboard to appreciate the differences. A power cat is a roomy, seaworthy home on the water.

Wow, I am sounding like a trawler cat enthusiast!... which I guess I have become. Yes, we live on a cat trawler and just want to be accepted with the rest of you! By the way, after 18 years of living on-board age has, reluctantly, forced us to change chapters in our lives. We will be looking for a smaller trawler, cat or not, for week-end anchoring in the Chesapeake and the like. Any suggestions?

We did create a 15 minute video showing our Endeavour cat that we are selling for the downgrade. We think the video points out the features that you should consider when buying any trawler, cat or conventional, you plan for coastal/Bahamas, Caribean cruising. Take a look. Endeavourcatforsale's Photos | SmugMug.


TonyL
__________________
Advertisement

TonyL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 07:22 PM   #2
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,181
Tony: Yes, you do sound like a trawler-cat enthusiast. I have to say that the 44 Endeavour was one of our considerations when we bought our present boat. Draft, stability, space, and particularly the family-like atmosphere of Endeavour owners. I must have spent days photoshopping pilothouse mods on the 44 to smooth it out a little. It was great to see Bob Vincent at the the Miami show with a new re-styled 44. It's proud freeboard dwarfed the adjacent Leopard. While so many boat builders bit the dust, Bob Vincent did what he had to and brought Endeavour through the economic mess, even introducing an electric day boat in the process. That company can build boats. Good luck with the sale.
__________________

healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 07:23 PM   #3
Member
 
City: Rock Hall, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Caldonia
Vessel Model: Endeavour TC44
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 9
I spent about 4 years considering a TC44 before buying one last July. Prior to buying I was able to communicate with a number of TC 44 owners and have found they all love them.

I've spent a lot of time on your boat at the Annapolis Boat Show. If I had known it would become available, I might have waited.

Best of luck with selling your boat.
JohnG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 07:33 PM   #4
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,181
I was just looking through my Photobucket album and found this example of a 44 with a Endeavour 40 Pilothouse. I teased Bob that he must have considered it, but you can see why he didn't.

healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 07:43 PM   #5
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
I can't stomach a cat design for anything, power or sail. Other than perhaps a Hobie Cat which is certainly fun to sail. But outside of that I find multihulls (the trimarans aren't any better in this respect) too non-boat-like for my taste, particualrly aesthetically.

The handful of people I have met over the years who have cats, power or sail, absolutely love them. The flip side of that is that in several decades of being involved with boats, here and in Hawaii, and in the last 14 years of being involved with cruising here in the PNW, the number of cat owners--- power and sail--- I have come across has been just that, a handful.

Thirty years ago I read articles and heard multi-hull enthusiasts preach about how in the not-too-distant future all boats would be multi-hulls. The pros simply far outweighed the cons, they claimed. Thirty years later, the number of multi-hull boats I see is just as miniscule as it was back then.

So I think it's a real niche design, favored by a few but largely ignored by the vast majority of boaters and boat manufacturers. And I expect it will continue to be this way. The few I've been on have not impressed me with their layouts or accomodations except in one respect. They all had absolutely mostrous main cabins for the size of the boat, and that was very nice. But everything else was too much of a compromise: small and in the case of some spaces, awkward to get to.

For people who really want the attributes a multi-hull offers, they are understandably popular. But that market, I think, is very, very small.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 08:01 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
deckofficer's Avatar
 
City: Northern California
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 409
healhustler and TonyL,

I've considered the Endeavour44 power cat and it exceeds my needs as it now does for TonyL. Although it has the hull efficiency that cats have, you know for my desire for solar-diesel-electric propulsion I need even more efficiency. Tony, this might be of interest to you as we both come from a sailing background. Did you know that Chris White, the guru of fast sailing cats and tris also designed a power cat that on just a pair of 140 hp diesels can run at 35 kt. The power cat is called the Buzzard's Bay and is 34' in length. Here is the site Buzzards Bay 34 power catamaran | Buzzards Bay Cats - Power Catamarans

Now if you want to down size even more but want hull efficiency and an extra $250K left in your wallet, here is a great new design brought to you by Larry Graf of Glacier Bay fame. Aspen Power Catamarans | Welcome This 28' boat I've crunched some numbers on, ask if your interested.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 08:04 PM   #7
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
I can't stomach a cat design for anything, power or sail. Other than perhaps a Hobie Cat which is certainly fun to sail.

Thirty years ago I read articles and heard multi-hull enthusiasts preach about how in the not-too-distant future all boats would be multi-hulls. The pros simply far outweighed the cons, they claimed. Thirty years later, the number of multi-hull boats I see is just as miniscule as it was back then.

For people who really want the attributes a multi-hull offers, they are understandably popular. But that market, I think, is very, very small.
(But am really getting tired of saying that!)
__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 08:41 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
deckofficer's Avatar
 
City: Northern California
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaHorse II View Post
(But am really getting tired of saying that!)
Just curious, does this boat have pleasing lines in your book, or too modern of lines for your taste?


This is the only picture I have of the stern.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 09:40 PM   #9
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,421
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
Just curious, does this boat have pleasing lines in your book, or too modern of lines for your taste?


This is the only picture I have of the stern.
It's a little more modern than I like.
__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 09:43 PM   #10
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,181
Well, you know what I think of it, Bob. Gimme my hybrid Aspen.
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 10:14 PM   #11
TF Site Team
 
FlyWright's Avatar
 
City: California Delta and SF Bay
Country: Sacramento, CA, USA (boat in Vallejo)
Vessel Name: FlyWright
Vessel Model: Marshall Californian 34 LRC
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,189
I've always liked the concept of the powercat. I especially like the layout of the 41 PDQ. If it's space, speed and efficiency you're longing for, it's hard to beat a cat.

One thing I've wondered, do you have enough rudder for it to be controllable in one engine at normal cruise power?
__________________
Al

Custom Google Trawler Forum Search
FlyWright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 10:53 PM   #12
Member
 
Ataraxia's Avatar
 
City: Cape Town
Country: South Africa
Vessel Name: Ataraxia
Vessel Model: Passagemakerlite by Tad Roberts
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 13
Send a message via Skype™ to Ataraxia
I personally prefer my own Passagemakerlite monohull trawler designed by Tad Roberts, but I am aware that lots of people prefer powercats for reasons of space and movement. On movement I also prefer the rolling of a monohull than the to me unnatural movement of a multihull, but again that differs from person to person. So for my job I build Power cat trawlers here in Thailand. We are presently busy with a 62 footer designed by Albert Nazarov of Albatross marine, we will launch in about 6 month and then hopefully start with the new design, the Astrolab, or the smaller 45 footer. With a European-South African management with deliver custom build boats at a competitive price.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20M...it?usp=sharing


https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20M...it?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B20M...it?usp=sharing
Ataraxia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 10:55 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
deckofficer's Avatar
 
City: Northern California
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 409
Al, go to the site and bring up "Media" and read the reviews. Larry tries to plan for journalists to test that little 28 footer when the wind is blowing and the chop is high. If it isn't crazy weather they go seek out the ferry wakes.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 10:59 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
deckofficer's Avatar
 
City: Northern California
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaHorse II View Post
It's a little more modern than I like.
Would you like it more if you knew it can run 6.25 kt on less than 5 hp? Or on a modest 150 hp breaks 20 kt.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 11:06 PM   #15
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyWright View Post
One thing I've wondered, do you have enough rudder for it to be controllable in one engine at normal cruise power?
Can't wait to hear the feedback on this question from cat owners, but I should say that in the case of the PDQ 34, the longtime PDQ broker Dick Tuschick here in Stuart had a favorite trick where you'd be moving along at speed and he'd just pull one throttle back to zero and no steering compensation was needed. Many PDQ owners do run on one engine at a time on long hauls, but I bet single engine docking must be a challenge on any cat.

Bob: Positive feedback from the most prolific forum membership usually demand forward raked windows like this Aspen C-90 North-Sea. I hope Larry doesn't mind my playing with his design.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	C90-North Sea.jpg
Views:	204
Size:	79.2 KB
ID:	18928  
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2013, 11:54 PM   #16
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Mea Culpa

Hey all,

Gotta fall on my sword here. The OP posted by Tony L was originally submitted as his first of two total posts. As most of you longtime forum members know any post from a newbie containing a hyperlink automatically get redirected by our forum spam controls for us mods to have a peek first and decide if it's spam or not.

I read his post and noticed he mentioned the boat was for sale and the link lead to his video about it. I made the decision that it would be better off in the classified section so re-assigned it here. Without going into detail, which would be inappropriate for me to discuss, some feelings got bruised that normally would not be.

I am moving this thread to the General section so you guys can carry on as if it was a normal thread and I will PM the OP and suggest he post an ad in the classified section if he desires to advertise it here.

I apologize to all involved for any confusion this caused and to the OP for taking the liberty for putting this in the Classified.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 12:03 AM   #17
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Healhustler--- Your skills continue to amaze me (seriously). And I must say that in this case, what you have done has actually improved the look of the boat. You know my feeling about wannabe windows but in this case the original design aesthetics of the boat are so poor (in MY opinion) that your alteration has actually added interest to the look of the boat.

We had a helicopter pilot in Hawaii who in describing the inexpensive, unreliable helicopter he was forced to fly, used a phrase I had never heard before: "You can only polish a turd so much." Well, I think your alteration has polished it a little bit more.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 12:35 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
deckofficer's Avatar
 
City: Northern California
Country: US
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 409
Never herd of polishing a turd? I'll bet you heard of making a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
__________________
Bob
USCG Unlimited Tonnage Open Ocean (CMA)
deckofficer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 12:43 AM   #19
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
Never herd of polishing a turd? I'll bet you heard of making a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
This was many years ago and I had not heard the polishing a turd phrase before. The silk purse/sow's ear, yes, I've known that one all my life it seems.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2013, 01:39 AM   #20
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,181
Thanks, Marin. After your comment, I had to go back and look at it myself. Maybe you're right.....maybe it's one of those times the forward rake works. Still, one could GB the boat a bit....you know, like this Aspen "Classic". Looks a bit like a Rosborough now.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	GB'd Aspen.jpg
Views:	134
Size:	79.3 KB
ID:	18929  
__________________

healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012