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Old 11-01-2013, 02:04 AM   #61
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Another definition

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Recreational trawlers are pleasure boats which resemble fishing trawlers. They can also be called cruising trawlers or trawler yachts. Within the category, however, are many types and styles of vessels.
A fishing trawler for example, always has a displacement hull for load-carrying capacity. Recreational trawlers, on the other hand, are as likely to have a semi-displacement hull. However, with the rising cost of fuel and the lower fuel consumption (though also lower speed) offered by displacement hulls, they are gaining popularity among some buyers. These displacement models typically have a cruising speed of 7-9 knots depending on the boat length. Their maximum speed is often no more than 10-12 knots, whereas semi-displacement hulls can attain 14-20 knots.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:17 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Parmenter View Post
No. Several of those vessels are aimed at 8 knot cruise
Can you show me where it is written that a trawler must be slow? ...

If you really want to go by definition how do any of the vessels on this forum fit this description?

Do any of these liveaboard trawlers get used for trawling (fishing)?
Page 29 of the 66th edition of Chapman -- Piloting and Seamanship:

"Within the commercial fishing community, the word "trawler" has a specific meaning relating to a style of fishing, but in recreational boating the term is used much more loosely. In general, a cruiser that does not have sufficient horsepower to get into a planing mode is known as a TRAWLER.

"The trawler's hull is a displacement design to ride through and not over the water ... Speed is normally limited to hull speed; the engine can be either single or twins. These craft have very modest fuel consumption characteristics and are popular for traveling at speeds of 7 to 10 knots over long distances. There are available so-called "fast trawlers" capable of speeds up to 25 knots, but the term is really an oxymoron and incorrect."

My boat is capable of 7.3 knots but I usually travel at a more efficient 6.3 knots. This means leaving earlier than my friends' (who are TF members) faster boats when we're on a common journey.

Here leading my faster friends through the shallow Petaluma River (a slough); they passed me later on San Pablo Bay. We subsequently arrived at the Vallejo Marina in 10-minute intervals.



Postscript: I don't fish.
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:13 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Page 29 of the 66th edition of Chapman -- Piloting and Seamanship:
One persons opinion
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The trawler's hull is a displacement design to ride through and not over the water ... Speed is normally limited to hull speed; the engine can be either single or twins. These craft have very modest fuel consumption characteristics and are popular for traveling at speeds of 7 to 10 knots over long distances.
So those powercat trawlers tick all those boxes so obviously they must be a trawler
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My boat is capable of 7.3 knots but I usually travel at a more efficient 6.3 knots.

Song Saigon is capable of 13.5 knots but she usually travels at a more efficient 8 knots.


Bamba 50 is capable of 15 knots but she would usually travel at a more efficient 8 knots. (150hp x 2)

Brady 52 is capable of about 12 knots but she would usually travel at a more efficient 8 knots. (90hp x 2)


Sher Khan is capable of about 13 knots but she would usually travel at a more efficient 10 knots. (200hp x 2)

Seems pretty obvious to me they are all trawlers

They are displacement design
They travel at modest speed
They have modest fuel consumption
They are capable of travelling at 7 to 10 knots over long distances
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Old 11-01-2013, 03:19 AM   #64
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No. While they might often travel at or less than hull speed, they are capable of moving much faster. Let's just say they can enjoy moving at trawler pace. (Love the sails on the Brady 52.)

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Old 11-01-2013, 03:28 AM   #65
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No. While they might often travel at or less than hull speed, they are capable of moving much faster.
What a nonsensical argument

They don't move much faster because they can't move much faster due to hull shape and engine size.

Equally as nonsensical would be to say your boat is a fast express cruiser because I could strap 10,000hp in it making it faster that your "Trawler speed" window.

If you were to cross a fast running bar in yours and all conditions being favourable, fell down the mine and you saw double figures on the log, would you now claim that it was not a trawler?

May I also remind you of the guidelines that you stipulated, which these vessels meet?
Quote:
The trawler's hull is a displacement design to ride through and not over the water ... Speed is normally limited to hull speed; the engine can be either single or twins. These craft have very modest fuel consumption characteristics and are popular for traveling at speeds of 7 to 10 knots over long distances.
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:49 AM   #66
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Real commercial trawlers are displacement vessels , linited in speed by their hull shape and weight and usually gear ratio.

As a heavy boat hull depth is no problem so a 4-1 to 6-1 gear is used and this allows a huge diameter propeller.With a target shaft speed of under 500 RPM going from 1500 to 2100 adds a huge amount of thrust , but does little for speed.

The rec trawlers are usually more a deck house style stuck on a yachty style hull.

These can be low powered or over powered as the customer desires , the game is to use the same mold for as many hulls as can be popped.

The most efficient displacement boat will have a displacement hull, round bilges .

The difference in drag can be 10-20% higher for the semi plaining boat at slow speeds , but going from 3GPH to 4 GPH at trawler crawl doesnt change the years boat bill by much.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:06 AM   #67
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There's no way to win (or loose) a debate of opinion. The standards of traditional trawlers have been so compromised that the nomenclature no longer relates to fact. Who cares. Marks boat is probably the closest to the fundamental trawler design we have on the forum. Planing hulls are probably the furthest away. In between are all the other adaptations of the design. So what.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:44 AM   #68
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WHO CARES!

Really the term we all should use is passagemaker.

Dashew doesnt call those tin cans he builds "trawlers".. they are fast pasysage makers.
Mark is dead wrong that a cat cannot be a passagemaker..we are reffering here to displacement speeds are we not.
Cats can be driven by small diesels at displacement speeds due to waterline length.
The side bonus is not needing to be stabilized.
The real bonus is space.
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Old 11-01-2013, 09:46 AM   #69
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How does that aft mast design work? Does the staysail pull from the lower point and not equally from the mast? If equal then wouldn't that rig give you an absurd amount of weather helm?
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:00 AM   #70
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Hopefully we are done with the "what defines a trawler" argument!!! We have beaten that dead horse over and over. And if you want to look at the corpse, please use the search button.

Now, I have always been cat curious. There are a lot of advantages. My only negative is the "compartmentalization" of the space. Every area is a compartment. The bigger you get, the less truth there is to that. Also in a boat like the PDQ 34, your sleeping space is no better than a small sailboat v-berth. I guess I want something a bit more comfy for $300k. BTW, I am a big fan of the PDQ. Of the Lagoon 43 as well. It seems you have to get over 50 feet before they open up in space.
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:04 PM   #71
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Just Listed for Sale, 62' Powercat

This 62 Powercat that I posted at the beginning of this subject thread is owned by a friend of mine. He just informed me that he was going to sell the vessel as his treasure hunting days are limited.

Here is the listing along with photos I didn't have.
1999 Catamaran Malcolm Tenant Cat Craft Custom Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale

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$750K...a good deal by todays std's to build a new one


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Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
I was reading thru another subject thread that had a similar title, but it appeared to have gotten way off track in its discussions.
Powercat trawlers vs traditional Trawlers
So I thought I might start a new subject thread.

I'll open it up with very nice trawler style 62 footer that was designed by the late Malcolm Tennant of NZ. This was a custom built boat by an owner of several previous sailing-charter cats, that now wanted a powercat for cruising the Bahamas and beyond. that owner/builder subsequently sold it to a good fried of mine who had also previously owned a large sailing cat.

aware of...several of them being production mono-hulls. But as I read my own words, I can't help but think of this wonderful vessel I just spent a few days aboard in Palm Beach. It was recently grabbed up (purchased) by a good friend of mine for his own liveaboard & treasure hunting purposes, so it is not available. I'll present a few details and photos as an example of what I consider a really nice liveaboard cruising vessel that is not too audacious while accomplishing most of what you have in mind plus a few extras...great dive and explore boat.

I'll post some pics I took while visiting a year ago. Look at the interior room available in this vessel,....and that great galley and big saloon. One master stateroom in one hull, and two guest staterooms in the other.
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Then how about the great aft deck and its additional galley, outdoor grill, and dining area.

This vessel drafts 3... feet, and is powered by two 6 cyl Cummins engines of 210HP . It will do 17 knots while using a fraction of the fuel of many yachts this size. It is highly maneuverable with those twin props widely spaced apart. Its easy to get on and off the tender from those swim platforms, and in fact could easily carry two tenders (his and hers), or other water toys. It has a generator and a watermaker, and a highly insulated refrig box and freezer that only requires running one engine once every two days. Its self-sufficient. The cost...less than $1M. I envy his choice.
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:23 PM   #72
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How does that aft mast design work? Does the staysail pull from the lower point and not equally from the mast? If equal then wouldn't that rig give you an absurd amount of weather helm?
Don't know that I understand exactly your question, but you might have a look here, and then ask any questions.
Sail Propulsion - Revisiting a Mast-Aft Sailing Rig

....and this forum posting
Aftmast rigs??? - Page 7 - Boat Design Forums
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Old 11-01-2013, 12:37 PM   #73
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What a nonsensical argument
You didn't read my posts carefully enough.
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Old 11-01-2013, 05:56 PM   #74
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Hollywood wrote;

"Really the term we all should use is passagemaker"

Since we are a trawler forum "passagemaker" should rarely be seen here. Generally I don't care to discuss them.

Quote from parmenter's quote (no reference given).

"Recreational trawlers, on the other hand, are as likely to have a semi-displacement hull". But it should have said "are much more likely" ....

Then Chapman (as quoted by Mark) says;

""The trawler's hull is a displacement design to ride through and not over the water ... Speed is normally limited to hull speed".

On most trawlers speed is NOT "limited to hull speed" even though most do run at hull speed. Almost always people seem to forget full disp boats do NOT run at hull speed but about one knot slower. And at some point probably before hull speed is reached a vessel is partly riding up over the wave it generates. So in trawlerdom there is as much riding up over the water as riding through the water. Perhaps or most likely more as I believe an increase in angle of attack occurs below hull speed.

Mark's quoting Chapman;

""Within the commercial fishing community, the word "trawler" has a specific meaning relating to a style of fishing, but in recreational boating the term is used much more loosely. In general, a cruiser that does not have sufficient horsepower to get into a planing mode is known as a TRAWLER"

The above last quote is (I think) a fairly good description of what a recreational trawler is.
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:27 PM   #75
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Mark's quoting Chapman;

""Within the commercial fishing community, the word "trawler" has a specific meaning relating to a style of fishing, but in recreational boating the term is used much more loosely. In general, a cruiser that does not have sufficient horsepower to get into a planing mode is known as a TRAWLER"

The above last quote is (I think) a fairly good description of what a recreational trawler is.
As none of those powercat trawlers get on the plane, no matter how much HP you throw at them, I win the internets
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Old 11-01-2013, 07:34 PM   #76
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As none of those powercat trawlers get on the plane, no matter how much HP you throw at them, I win the internets
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:25 PM   #77
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LOLROF
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:36 AM   #78
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Another new Powercat, Maltese 52

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...tml#post197067
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:46 AM   #79
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Just checking in - great thread!

Our power cat, "Sunshine," is able to get about infinate/mpg at 4 to 5 knots!
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:35 PM   #80
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Indikon Catamaran

Another new powercat. I saw a model of this one down at the Annapolis Powerboat Show this past fall. I think they are making the whole round of boat shows this fall/winter/spring

p4 Powercat | Indikon Boat Works | Indikon Boat Works
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