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Old 05-17-2019, 11:10 AM   #1
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Power refit plan (12v)

Hello fellows!
I know I already post questions on the subject but redoing my 12v install aboard here is another one.
Thinking about what I plan I came up with the following schema:

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On the drawing only positive cables are shown and all cables are of the same size 2/0.

I think I covered everything regarding fuse and/breaker. I intentionally left the starter non protected as well as alternator.

To distribute alternator power I am not sure yet if I will reuse the isolator/splitter I already have (that was used in the original setup) or if I will add another ACR (better option).

Any comment about that schema? Anybody see anything wrong?

As usually any input will be very welcomed.

L
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:13 PM   #2
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Some of the lettering is a little tough to read. Not sure if I'm seeing a fuse and / or switch between the battery banks and the busses. Single engine? How big is the alternator(s)?

Ted
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:20 PM   #3
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Some of the lettering is a little tough to read. Not sure if I'm seeing a fuse and / or switch between the battery banks and the busses. Single engine? How big is the alternator(s)?

Ted
Sorry for my bad writing, it is Bkr for breaker (was thinking to bluesea 285 serie or something like that).
Single engine, curently 60amp alt (a bit small but for my usage it would be ok for now, almost never spend more than 2 days in raw away from dock power at this point).

L
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Old 05-17-2019, 03:33 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Lou_tribal View Post
Sorry for my bad writing, it is Bkr for breaker (was thinking to bluesea 285 serie or something like that).
Single engine, curently 60amp alt (a bit small but for my usage it would be ok for now, almost never spend more than 2 days in raw away from dock power at this point).

L
Is "in raw" another form of bare boating?

You ought to consider adding a second alternator with some real output, to your engine. It's really not tough to do; will give you some redundancy; definitely simplifies your new wiring.

Ted
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:06 PM   #5
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Lou,
If isolator is original / diode type I would replace w any of many better options.
If interested I have details of what I did w both AC and DC charging system on my MS 34HT. Look in Projects section for Charging System Mods.
I'm not real happy w how MS set up their DC electrical system and may consider addnl mods in the future but so far very happy w the charging sys mods.
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
Is "in raw" another form of bare boating?

You ought to consider adding a second alternator with some real output, to your engine. It's really not tough to do; will give you some redundancy; definitely simplifies your new wiring.

Ted
LOL maybe that is a symbolic typo

My main concern with adding a second alt is where ti fit it, space is quite small but I already think about replacing the one I have with a more beefy one.
Thank you for your input Ted!

L
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Old 05-17-2019, 04:22 PM   #7
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Lou,
If isolator is original / diode type I would replace w any of many better options.
If interested I have details of what I did w both AC and DC charging system on my MS 34HT. Look in Projects section for Charging System Mods.
I'm not real happy w how MS set up their DC electrical system and may consider addnl mods in the future but so far very happy w the charging sys mods.
Yes the original isolator is diode based this is why I think to replace it with an ACR like I did between main house bank and start battery.
Either this or fit a ProIsoCharge that would split alt output between main and secondary house bank. An ACR would be simpler and cheaper.

Thank you for your input!

L
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:05 PM   #8
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That diagram as best I can tell shows two combiners, an acr and a diode isolator serving a starting battery a house battery and a second house battery (maybe just for the thruster).


My advice is to hire a marine electrician to figure it out for you.


David
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:07 PM   #9
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Add a disconnect on the thruster circuit too. Will come in handy if it hangs up or you need to work on it.
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmarchand View Post
That diagram as best I can tell shows two combiners, an acr and a diode isolator serving a starting battery a house battery and a second house battery (maybe just for the thruster).


My advice is to hire a marine electrician to figure it out for you.


David
Indeed two combiners to allow to combine main house and start in case of need to start engine, second to combine secondary house and main house in case of need (knowing that secondary house would mainly be dedicated to thruster but if by any wa I need more juice for house I would like to combine the two banks). One ACR between main and start, and shown isolator/splitter from alt to the two house. I will certainly replace this by an ACR so alt will charge main and ACRs will link to start and secondary.

Do yo see any issue with this?

L
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:27 PM   #11
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Add a disconnect on the thruster circuit too. Will come in handy if it hangs up or you need to work on it.
Good point so this comfort me to use a breaker for the thruster instead of a fuse.

L
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:11 PM   #12
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Lou
I'll offer my thoughts as it relates to my current set up that I'm considering further mods.
And a caveat- I'm no expert and plan to consult w an ABYC Electrician before I finalize any plans for further mods.
My MS had two 8Ds that serve both star & house w a 2,2, all, off SW. A 3rd 8D for thrusters only and a separate GP 24 gen start batty.
I currently leave hose / starts on All so any use minimizes the draw down and maxes the SOC before recharging (better for batty health & longevity).
My current thoughts are when time to replace battys...
It might be advantageous to combine start & thrusters and utilize a starting type batty bank... both hi amp lo duration & if I cant start dont need thrusters after start alt helps supplement and draw down due to starting.
Build a true deep cycle house bank separate from other hi amp draws.
My point is... why separate house banks vs one large? Only benefit I can envision and may leave in my house bank... a selector SW would allow isolating a portion of the house bank if a portion fails. I could fo the same by removing a few cables w a little more effort / time.
I consider my gen as backup in case start bank lets me down.
Just send thoughts & reaction to spit house bank and using house for thrusters... why?
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Lou
I'll offer my thoughts as it relates to my current set up that I'm considering further mods.
And a caveat- I'm no expert and plan to consult w an ABYC Electrician before I finalize any plans for further mods.
My MS had two 8Ds that serve both star & house w a 2,2, all, off SW. A 3rd 8D for thrusters only and a separate GP 24 gen start batty.
I currently leave hose / starts on All so any use minimizes the draw down and maxes the SOC before recharging (better for batty health & longevity).
My current thoughts are when time to replace battys...
It might be advantageous to combine start & thrusters and utilize a starting type batty bank... both hi amp lo duration & if I cant start dont need thrusters after start alt helps supplement and draw down due to starting.
Build a true deep cycle house bank separate from other hi amp draws.
My point is... why separate house banks vs one large? Only benefit I can envision and may leave in my house bank... a selector SW would allow isolating a portion of the house bank if a portion fails. I could fo the same by removing a few cables w a little more effort / time.
I consider my gen as backup in case start bank lets me down.
Just send thoughts & reaction to spit house bank and using house for thrusters... why?
Main house bank is made of 4 new gc2 batteries (give 420Ah) while secondary is made of 2 old (mean currently in use) group 31 (give 210Ah).
My goal is to still use the g31 for thruster and (if needed for some reason) add some juice to house bank. Even if used for 4 years now they still have plenty of amps to provide and some more years of life expectancy and I don't like the idea to throw away something that still can be used ( call me cheap I would better say I hate to add any junk to the dump for no reason).
The ultimate goal is to be able to roll batteries so when the g31 will be toasted I will replace them with the main bank and will replace the main with brand new batteries etc...

Thank you for your thoughts they are much appreciated and very welcome, keep them coming !

L
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Lou
If I can't start don't need thrusters. After start alt helps supplement and draw down due to starting.
Build a true deep cycle house bank separate from other hi amp draws.
My point is... why separate house banks vs one large? Only benefit I can envision and may leave in my house bank... a selector SW would allow isolating a portion of the house bank if a portion fails. I could do the same by removing a few cables w a little more effort / time.
I consider my gen as backup in case start bank lets me down.
Just send thoughts & reaction to spit house bank and using house for thrusters... why?
Won't your thrusters get most of their use just before you shut down the main engine? In which scenario your alternator is not going to recharge the start/thruster bank but will leave it drawn down. Thus leaving the thrusters on the house side may be better.
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Old 05-17-2019, 11:19 PM   #15
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Won't your thrusters get most of their use just before you shut down the main engine? In which scenario your alternator is not going to recharge the start/thruster bank but will leave it drawn down. Thus leaving the thrusters on the house side may be better.
I agree, I am rarely using my thruster, maybe less than 5 times in a season, and it is always while docking or locking so minutes before shutting the engine down. This is a reason why I plan to connect it to the secondary bank, will not deplate the start batt. and be a potential issue to start and will not deplate main house and reduce "normal" available capacity. This makes secondary house as an extra if needed.

In fact my whole question is more related to circuit protection as I do not want to introduce fuse and/or breaker where not needed and keep things simple.

L
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Old 05-18-2019, 05:16 AM   #16
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Won't your thrusters get most of their use just before you shut down the main engine? In which scenario your alternator is not going to recharge the start/thruster bank but will leave it drawn down. Thus leaving the thrusters on the house side may be better.
Keith
A good point and I need to give that more thought.
When docking at home shore charger takes care of it.
If anchoring or tieing up w/o power that's another story?

Louis
I now better understand your rationale for 2nd house bank and don't disagree w your points.
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:48 AM   #17
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Add a disconnect on the thruster circuit too. Will come in handy if it hangs up or you need to work on it.
I agree. My boat has a master on the thruster. It will give you some added protection.
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