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Old 09-24-2014, 07:11 PM   #21
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I call it ECAD. Estimate Closely And Double.
Excellent system for boat budgeting, just to remember to round up generously after you double. And anything you don't spend, put into the reserve fund for stuff you never thought of or thought would never happen. I always felt the reserve fund should initially be the cost of an engine blowing up. This approach cuts down the financial anxiety level to zero.

Get a generator that will power everything running full blast at once, the price difference is very little and as others have pointed out the cost per kilowatthour is virtually the same at any given level. The whole "loading it right" stuff is mostly urban legend, as long as periods with no load are avoided.
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:20 PM   #22
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Ski in NC touched on the increased "start up" demand of electrical equipment, it can be 2-3 times more than the specified draw. When we replaced the compressor unit for the eutectics, the frig guy said have nothing else drawing on the 6.5KW Onan when starting the compressor.
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Old 09-24-2014, 09:42 PM   #23
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All electric boat...Our 7.5 Kohler runs 1 hr +/- am / 1.5hr +/- pm. All needs on board stay well supplied. Figure we use approx 1.75 gal gasoline per day. Have AC - don't need it. I do lots of evening BBQ and love cooking that way.

When needed in colder weather (SF Delta seldom goes below + 35 f) we heat with "HeatMate" non pressurized alcohol heater. Super easy to use and very safe. Can be used to heat pot of coffee water too.

Heatmate 5200 Portable Non Pressurized Alcohol Heater Stove Steve | eBay
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Old 09-25-2014, 06:01 AM   #24
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Any unvented fuel burning heater will dump water into the air.

Alcohol or propane the walls may run with water depending on the Delta T.
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Old 09-25-2014, 08:54 AM   #25
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Any unvented fuel burning heater will dump water into the air.

Alcohol or propane the walls may run with water depending on the Delta T.
None of that noticed using HeatMate. Of course, we don't need to let it run wild. During day, it's not on for more than three to six hour intervals and not always on high. Then off for hour or two. Never leave it on while sleeping. The moderate climate on water in in SF Delta offers reduced need for heat (winter day usually 35 to 50 f /night 30 to 38). Also leave couple windows cracked while heater is on.

HeatMate sold in 2000's is the same exact heater (I do mean exact) that my family used on boat in NY during the 60's

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Old 09-25-2014, 11:08 AM   #26
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Interesting that those numbers all work out to about .083 GPH per KW
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Old 11-07-2014, 06:51 AM   #27
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Hi,

I'm moving from 50+ years of sailing to a Trawler, currently looking at a Ranger 29. My question is about total power usage:

She is equipped with a 16kBtu/hr and a 10 kBtu/hr reverse cycle, electric stove, microwave, hot water, and small electric space heater. This is far more power consumption than the two 30 Amp power cords or the 5kW genset will supply.

It seems that to cook on a hot day, I have to cool the boat, turn off the a/c and hot water, cook the food, and turn the a/c back on.

Is this typical of the drill?

Seems strange coming from an all-solar sailboat with propane heat, hot water, and cooking.

Should I covert to propane, pass on this boat, or eat cold food?

Thanks
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Old 11-07-2014, 07:05 AM   #28
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Hi,

I'm moving from 50+ years of sailing to a Trawler, currently looking at a Ranger 29. My question is about total power usage:

She is equipped with a 16kBtu/hr and a 10 kBtu/hr reverse cycle, electric stove, microwave, hot water, and small electric space heater. This is far more power consumption than the two 30 Amp power cords or the 5kW genset will supply.

It seems that to cook on a hot day, I have to cool the boat, turn off the a/c and hot water, cook the food, and turn the a/c back on.

Is this typical of the drill?

Seems strange coming from an all-solar sailboat with propane heat, hot water, and cooking.

Should I covert to propane, pass on this boat, or eat cold food?

Thanks
Yes.....juggling electric loads seems to be a lot of people's hobby as they think I am crazy for upgrading to a 50A 125/250 cord which allows me to run 2 more electrical appliances than 2-30A cords and is heavier duty for constant live aboard/cruising use.

I also converted to propane yet kept one of my really nice electric hotplates as it comes in handy for the odd times of not opening up the burnertop.

Ultimately if you are a non-marina type cruiser...I see the advantage of working as many systems as possible towards 12 or 24V...especially as more and more marinas charge outrageous prices for electrical service. But having the service available and convenient doesn't mean it was a waste if you use it sometimes. (Though expensive to upgrade...better do easy the original install).
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Old 11-07-2014, 07:55 AM   #29
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Have you talked with Ranger about this? If a used boat, did a PO add some of these things (the little space heater, probably) Have you confirmed how many watts each of those is? Actually the two 30s, with a total of 7200 watts, should come fairly close, but that's a totally blind guess. A properly designed boat should have shore power and genset capacity to each power the whole thing. If not, makes you wonder what else they skimped on. Personally I wouldn't buy such a boat.
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:03 AM   #30
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As our control panel is easily accessible in salon, next to pilot station; I find no problem to jockey breakers on and off for limiting load on entire system; whether on shore or gen set power. Jockeying breakers for use sequences is only wise... I've seen what can happen when a boat's electric system gets way overloaded and its main breaker unexpectedly malfunctions (i.e. it actually melted - not supposed to, but it did!)... can we spell F-I-R-E!! Boat and house electrical systems are not the same animals; IMHO, both should be given the respect each deserves.

Not that it is needed; system could withstand greater load. However, for sanity and safety sake I keep our load at or below 25 amps. Once water is hot it stays as such for fair piece of time. Elect stove/oven can be but does not need to be used at same time as microwave. Fridge/freezer stays cold for up to hours so turn off at breaker for a while poses no problem. Not too many electric lights needed on at same time. C-phone/computer charge is little draw and batt-bank charger draws little too. Luckily our climate requires limited need for air conditioner or heaters. And, for long duration need of heat while on hook I have a fool proof alcohol heater that can also be used to heat coffee water or even cook on if desired...

http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/brow...FRFlfgodSUoA9Q

Soooo - On hook (which we luv to be) gen set need not often run for long period. I see no need for inverter. We manage fine with batt 12v set up and ac power availabilities. Also, have solar panel that keeps gen set starter batt up. And, I keep a brand new starter/deep-cell combo batt isolated and fully charged in its own batt box... just in case emergency might arise for extra 12v power.

We B Happy!!
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:39 AM   #31
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How are the loads divided between the cords? If both A/Cs are on one cord than it doesn't matter whether one or both are on when you are cooking.

When on the Genset just turn one A/C off, the water heater off so it doesn't kick on unexpectedly. And perhaps use the microwave when the stove or oven are shut off. Even if you just turn them off for the short time you want to run the microwave and then turn them back on to finish cooking something. Use a fan to move around the cool air from the one A/C while you cook.

If you go to survey with the boat have the surveyor load the Genset up see what happens. It may handle your intended cooking load better than you think.
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Old 11-07-2014, 04:51 PM   #32
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Art, great boat and all, but frankly IMO that's just too much work and thinking. Big advantage of a properly powered, wired and paneled boat is you, and especially other members of the crew, don't have to worry about any of that stuff.
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Old 11-07-2014, 11:41 PM   #33
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Art, great boat and all, but frankly IMO that's just too much work and thinking. Big advantage of a properly powered, wired and paneled boat is you, and especially other members of the crew, don't have to worry about any of that stuff.
Keeps me on my toes! And, I like it that way!!
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Old 11-08-2014, 03:49 AM   #34
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Once you put an electric stove and two air conditioners into the picture power management becomes a must for all but the boats with the largest power supply. If a 29 ft boat's genset could handle everything you have at the same time then the genset would be too large for the 95% of the time that you would not be running everything.

With an 8kw genset on a 42 ft boat we exercise power management all the time, and we haven't run the air conditioners in years, and have a propane stove.
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Old 11-08-2014, 06:52 AM   #35
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>t seems that to cook on a hot day, I have to cool the boat, turn off the a/c and hot water, cook the food, and turn the a/c back on.<

With low cost and only a tiny bit of wiring load shedding can be automatic.

A $60 relay can shut off the HW heater when the stove goes on, you wont miss it.

Matching the loads to your use is fairly easy , as you probably already do what is required manually.

A frequent hassle is the total load is OK, but the Starting load of a large motor is too large.

Selecting a pass thru inverter will allow the batt bank to help for that second or two, and recharge the house when it can.
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Old 11-08-2014, 08:53 AM   #36
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Once you put an electric stove and two air conditioners into the picture power management becomes a must for all but the boats with the largest power supply. If a 29 ft boat's genset cold handle everything you have at the same time then the genset would be too large for the 95% of the time that you would not be running everything.

With an 8kw genset on a 42 ft boat we exercise power management all the time, and we haven't run the air conditioners in years, and have a propane stove.
Obviously, gotta disagree with you there Marty. Plus "not running the air conditioners in years" and having a propane stove is cheating for the sake of this convo (do they still work, by the way?) and the OP and the laods aboard the subject boat. The generator is going to be quite happy at a quarter or half load. It will be happy when surge loads come on line. Now, I do have to qualify that having an inverter makes this all easier, as the "base loads" can be handled by it. Then the genset comes on to recharge batteries, cook, cool things down, etc. And there are days when you really would like to run virtually everything, so why not be prepared?
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Old 11-08-2014, 09:31 AM   #37
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Hi,

My question is about total power usage:

She is equipped with a 16kBtu/hr and a 10 kBtu/hr reverse cycle, electric stove, microwave, hot water, and small electric space heater. This is far more power consumption than the two 30 Amp power cords or the 5kW genset will supply.
The space heater wont be used while the AirCon is on so kick that out.

As previously stated the Air Con units are usually on separate 30A from the other stuff. When running the genny, just turn one cabin AirCon to fan only while you are cooking.

The water heater would normally be up to temp and cycling infrequently.

The microwave used at the same time as one burner should be ok.

All and all you should be ok with possible minor manual load management.
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Old 11-08-2014, 10:18 AM   #38
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Once you put an electric stove and two air conditioners into the picture power management becomes a must for all but the boats with the largest power supply. If a 29 ft boat's genset cold handle everything you have at the same time then the genset would be too large for the 95% of the time that you would not be running everything.

With an 8kw genset on a 42 ft boat we exercise power management all the time, and we haven't run the air conditioners in years, and have a propane stove.
Marty, Thank You!

In my book...You have stated "mariner common sense"!

That said; if it's a new, big expense boat that came from factory with electrical set up that can more than amply handle all and any power usage from all utility products / appliances running simultaneously... then treat it like a well electrically setup dirt building... i.e. house, office, factory etc. Or, if it's an older boat that's been completely electrically re-setup to handle any loads from whatever may be aboard... then worry not and blithely utilize any/all appliances to your heart's content.

BUT... If it is an older boat that did not begin life in the million dollar plus/plus range with basically same electric set up as when it was built - then - in my estimation, power management aboard is a really good and wise idea.
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Old 11-08-2014, 10:31 AM   #39
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FF "Selecting a pass thru inverter" ? I have an inverter but not sure about the pass thru?
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Old 11-08-2014, 01:09 PM   #40
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Again some live aboard advice will be different than non-liveaboard...adjust accordingly.
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