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Old 07-13-2015, 12:50 PM   #21
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I appreciate all the advice and words of wisdom from everyone!

I have put a lot of thought into this actually, and I am aware it's not all glitz and glamor.

In my thought processes I have asked myself three questions in this order: Why? How? And what?
I don't know if any of you are familiar with Simon Sinek ( a smart guy in the industry actually turned me onto him) but that basically comes right from him.
So why do I want to get into the industry?
I love boats the sea and everything that goes with it. It brings me joy, the feeling I get when I see a beautiful boat or yacht, that is a feeling that I know others get including yourselves. I want to be able to provide that feeling for people. I want to be able to provide joy and happiness to possible future clients. I also want to be someone people trust in especially those seeking to buy and sell yachts. How do I intend to do this? Well by adding actual knowledge to the existing qualities I believe I already posses and building relationships as a lot of you have already talked about. That relational aspect is important for me, especially given my background, relationships and individuals were huge in my formation and a mission for my life. Finally the question of what? This question in a way gets answered through why and how, but, simply the position of broker is the what, and the individual hoping to buy or sell will simply work with me because of what I stated before. I don't mean to come off as arrogant saying it like that. But that is my goal. That is the "what" that I hope to reach.
I know this is all theoretical right now but for me I have to come up with a theory and a plan before I can actually do something so this is that.

Dean.
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Old 07-13-2015, 01:58 PM   #22
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Doesn't the Navy hire Chaplains? Would your masters in theology qualify you for that?
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Old 07-13-2015, 02:13 PM   #23
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Go take a few AYBC courses or check out the Landing School. It may show potential employers that you are serious.

Not in the boating industry, but seriously considered it 20 years ago.
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Old 07-13-2015, 03:38 PM   #24
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I know this is all theoretical right now but for me I have to come up with a theory and a plan before I can actually do something so this is that.

Dean.
I'm going to answer this from the viewpoint of an employer and I hope it does serve as useful advice.

First, what was your college major? Why did you study religion and psychology in grad school?

Here would be my concern. Why hire you when you can't make up your mind what you want to do, going to grad school even with no profession in mind.

Now, personally, I do think we push young people to decide on their life pursuit before they have the knowledge to do so. Still I'm not at all convinced just reading this that you'll stick with a plan. You mention needing a theory and plan. I'd say you need the right theory and plan for you and then you need to actually start executing it.

You talk about building your knowledge and then getting into a brokerage. Seems to me you've built a lot of knowledge so far and not using any of it. Do you know what it's like to work as a salesman in a brokerage? How long as a new salesman can you and are you willing to go with no sales and commission? Selling small boats for a lake is one thing, but selling larger boats in a coastal brokerage is much like real estate. There are a lot of dry periods, plus it's very difficult when new to compete with the brokers who are established and know everyone. The real money, just as in real estate, requires listings too. Half of the average broker's income is listing, not selling.

Do you know what the average broker makes? Not a lot. Successful make very good money. Average makes decent. But for every successful broker, there are many who aren't successful. What sales experience do you have? As a new broker you're dependent on walk in or call in traffic and that's a very small piece of the market. Now once you gather information on brokering, then if that's what you really want to do, set a plan specifically for that.

You say "I'm thinking that a marina or dock in the Area just needing general yard/dock hands is looking most likely." That's a college kid taking a summer job. That's not someone serious about being a broker. That's just wanting to be around the water. It's also not the sound of a very ambitious person. 5 to 6, maybe 7 years of college and you're talking about taking a job as a dock hand or yard man. Why am I making a point of this? Brokers, like any good sales people, must be ambitious to be successful. They must be driven to make sales. It's a competitive, performance rewarding business. In hiring someone into it, one would typically be looking for hunger...people hungry for success, for money.

If you want to get experience that might one day lead to brokering then get it in a field that you can grow in. As an example, you could go to Maritime School, get a job on a yacht as a deck hand, targeting becoming a captain. Actually easier to break in through the commercial route for many. But that takes time too. You need 360 sea days for a 6 pack and 720 sea days for a Master. Are you willing to commit 5 years to that pursuit?

If there's any aspect you'd prefer to discuss privately, message me.

In passing out resumes at dealerships and docks, I can tell you the first thought people get if they even look at them. "Overqualified." I assume you'll have a Master's when you graduate. They look and say, "Why is someone with a Master's applying for a job on a dock." Further thought, "he's desperate but as soon as he can find a better job, he's gone." I don't know what your cover letter says, but if it says dock job to build knowledge to be a broker, many businesses shy away from being used as a stepping stone.

With all your education have you gotten any professional career counseling, including testing of your likes and dislikes, aptitude, to help you determine what you'd really like to do? If not, I'd strongly recommend it. One place it can be excellent if you answer honestly is telling you if you're cut out for sales. You may well be a future sales star. I don't know. I'd just say you've done a lot of vacillating career wise and direction wise and it could be very helpful. You mention experience in manual work, administration and service. Three entirely different directions. Now, I recognize some may have been summer or afternoon jobs, but the question is which is right for you.

Now, I never believe education or the pursuit of knowledge is a waste, so I don't agree with the philosophy of many. But you go for a dock job or even an entry sales assistant of some sort and the reaction of many will be that you've either wasted your time getting the education or you're now wasting the education. You need a real understanding of how you've gotten to this point and then where you want to go. Then whatever you do can be directed toward that.

I do wish you the best of luck.
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Old 07-13-2015, 05:05 PM   #25
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Greetings,
Mr. dt. Let me guess. You were awarded a sports scholarship and took bird courses to remain on the team. Seriously? Religion and psychology? Mr. BB pegged the situation exactly "...where you want to go..."
Start a career in tel-evangalism.
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Old 07-13-2015, 07:22 PM   #26
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....I also want to be someone people trust in especially those seeking to buy and sell yachts. ...
Dean: Go on line and look at the qualifications of individual brokers. They usually post their resumes. How much time do you want to invest to be a successful broker? I admire your dream but ... Here's an example of a local broker's resume.

Growing up in Scituate, MA, T.... started a boat cleaning service at age 14 to pay for gas for his own boat. After attending Boston College. T..... was captain on many commercial vessels, including passenger, oceanographic research and oil exploration vessels, he then went on to private yachts. In between some of his sea time, T.... got involved in boat sales, starting full-time in 1984, working in new boat sales and brokerage. After returning to Florida in 1992, he started a business specializing in instruction for boat owners and continues to offer this service to his clients and their crews.

In April 2008, T.... received his designation as a Certified Professional Yacht Broker. This is part of a program affiliated with all of the major yacht brokerage associations in the US to increase professionalism in the industry and to show prospective buyers and sellers that a certified broker has achieved a level of professionalism and knowledge recognized by his peers. Currently in the US there are only 500 brokers who have achieved the designation of CPYB.
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Old 07-13-2015, 07:34 PM   #27
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I'm the same age as you. No masters degree; just a BA in political science.

I work in the marine industry as a cruising guide editor. I was in the right place at the right time to get the job. The summer after I graduated from college I took a 22' boat from Anacortes to Glacier Bay and back. Along the way I was put in touch with the guy who had recently purchased a well known boating guidebook for the area and he offered me a job based on my summer travels.

The money isn't great but I love the lifestyle. I'm currently on my boat in Port McNeill after guiding a group of boats to Ketchikan, then exploring Haida Gwaii and transiting the Central Coast of B.C. I'll be boating until after Labor Day. My summers are spent the same way I'd spend them if I didn't have to work.

Are there bad days? Sure, but it's mostly good. And it's really rewarding to hear from happy readers and to see the book that I update each year aboard just about every boat cruising these waters.

That said, the marine industry can be tough. Many of the mechanics, marina operators, brokers, and others rarely get out on boats. In economic downturns the boating industry usually gets hit particularly hard. The industry seems "cliquey" to me. And everyone seems to love to hate brokers.

Around here there are lots of young people that work as deckhands/naturalists on whale watching boats and charter boats. They get out on the water frequently but have to deal with sometimes difficult guests. If you're well spoken and patient perhaps that's a way for you to get on the water.
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Old 07-13-2015, 07:46 PM   #28
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To learn to be a broker, I think one should first learn how to sell used cars. Then buy some boat shoes, or maybe steal some like Oliver....

And you're there!!
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:14 PM   #29
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I spent about 10 months as a broker one year. I went back to IT.

I suggest you get into a well paying career and then buy yourself a boat. Even then you won't be able to use it that often. But definitely more than most of the people in the marine industry during the season. Off season, the water is frozen and you starve. Or you move to Florida where there is no off season.

Brokerage has little to do with boats - it's all about selling. Are you a good salesman? Like used car salesman good? Do you like driving? Do you like arguing? Do you like talking on cell phones all day and all night? Do you like browbeating customers into buying more than they can afford just so the 'pyramid' you built doesn't collapse when someone in the middle gets cold feet?

The guy who owned the brokerage I worked at could sell ice cubes to Eskimos. - he just couldn't deliver snow in Alaska. He is out of jail now and is back in the used car industry where his talents are appreciated.

Yacht brokerage is like selling real estate - with the possibility of drowning.
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:37 PM   #30
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W

This guy had a unique skill in that he came in dressed in Khakis and a nice clean shirt. And left still clean!!! He got as much work done as the rest of us, too.

I left looking like I rolled around in a shrimp boat bilge.

I think he had it figured out, on many levels. Happy dude, too. Never bitched.
I miss my mechanic that was like that. He would always leave the boat cleaner than he found it. He always looked neat, but was one of the best diesel mechanics I've ever met. I, on the other hand, probably looked very similar to what Ski described. I can't figure out how they do it.
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:51 PM   #31
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I am looking for a job in the marine industry...Have very little experience in the industry, however, I did grow up around boats in Minnesota and I have plenty of experience in manual work, administrative, and service.
In our harbor there is a pretty good-sized boatyard. They work on everything from recreational power cruisers and sailboats to big commercial limit seiners, gillnetters and crabbers to yachts (80-100' long) and so forth. They work on wood boats as well as the more common fiberglass, aluminum, and steel vessels. I suspect it's a pretty typical yard for one of this size so there will be similar ones all around the US coast.

They have a number of specialists on the payroll in areas like engine mechanics, electrical work, Travelift drivers and so forth. They also have some general laborers. Guys who powerwash boats as they come out of the water and act has helpers to the other employees.

From my observation the general helper work does not require a lot of experience. However, if one gets hired for one of these positions--- which may well be part time--- if one has an interest and aptitude for some more specialized aspect of boatyard work it's a great way to get one's foot in the door. Once in, one can then work their way up into what one really wants to do.

Or....... it's a great way to find out that this kind of industry is not what one really wants to be in.

The few brokers I know personally seem to have gotten into it by first getting some experience in sales. Furniture, cars, washing machines, one has to have an aptitude for making the kind of positive albeit temporary relationships with people that help convince them that the product one is selling is the product they want.

And.... one has to develop the knowledge base to be able to "present" the product in a credible manner to the customer. In other words I don't think it's enough to simply have an interest in boats. I think a person has to be motivated to learn a lot about boats in great detail--- makes, models, characteristics, attributes, and so forth. You can't sell a product to a customer, particularly an expensive product like a boat (or a house), if you don't have an intimate knowledge of the product itself and how to use it.

Another potential route might be to get a job as "dock boy" at a big charter company. Particularly a charter company that also is a boat dealer or brokerage. Cleaning boats, helping the maintenance person or people with repairs and whatnot. Basically being a "gofer."

It seems to be a hard concept for people graduating from college or entering the workforce these days, but the old rule of thumb, "start at the bottom and work your way up" still applies. Sure there are exceptions. The son of one of my directors of videgraphy graduated from the University of Washington with a bachelor's degree in computer science and was promptly wooed by Amazon, Google, and Facebook. He went with Google at a starting salary of $100,000 a year with a $70,000 signing bonus. But..... this guy has been intimately involved with computers since he was a little kid and had built a reputation as an absolute whiz at things like computer programming and security by the time he finished middle school. So not your average career path.....

For the majority of folks it's get your foot in the door in a business, industry, or field you really like or think you'll like and start slogging up the path.

Interestingly, the people I've met who have achieved greatness in their fields, particularly in the industry I'm in which is aerospace, never started out with the goal of being great. They started out with a passion for their chosen interest and got so engrossed in it it was a bit of a surprise to them when one day there they were at the top.

Last year I interviewed at length a remarkable woman who started at rock bottom working in an airline reservations office in London after fleeing as a teenager the violence of Northern Ireland and who is today the CEO of one of the most successful airlines in the package tour industry. I was interviewing her because she was one of the very first people in the airline industry to make the decision to order the 787 long before it even existed.

Before interviewing her I tried to learn as much as possible about her. One of the things I read in my research was an interview she had given to the London Times (I think) about the importance of passion in one's work and how hard it is these days to find people who have the kind of passion it takes to really contribute to their and their company's success. I opened my interview by asking her to elaborate on her belief in the importance of passion and how it related to the success of her airline.

While I have never been able to express it as eloquently as she did, I have long believed that having a passion for what one does is the key to achieving success, be it running an airline, writing a book or helping other people get into boating.

The broker who found us our boat is a great example. He loves boats, particularly this particular brand, and his interest--- passion if you will--- has led him to learn and retain a huge amount of knowledge about not just this particular brand but about all sorts of boats. Most important of all, his passion for this comes through to his customers (like us). He's not just a salesman trying to make a buck or meet a quota. He genuinely loves what he does and what he sells and helping people acquire what they need to make their own dreams become a reality. This in term gives him tremendous credibility with his customers.
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:30 PM   #32
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If your looking for a bit of adventure get your stcw 95 and head for Ft Lauderdale. A friends son graduated college with a bad case of wanderlust and followed that track. Crewed around as a deckie for a couple years and now is a surf instructor in Costa Rica. No regrets.

Damn, Costa Rica is sounding better all the time

Don't let any of us old farts with feet of clay pee on your charcoal.
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Old 07-14-2015, 01:04 AM   #33
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I've been studying religion and psychology. I know....completely unrelated to the industry.
One of my favorite shipmates has a couple of master's degrees in religion. One of the smartest and most interesting fellas I've ever sailed with. He's been sailing on tugs, dredges and freighters as a deckhand and Able Seaman for decades. Sometimes when we're shoveling big piles of dirt off the deck, the running joke is 'Hey Bill, how many college degrees does it take to shovel a ton of rocks?'

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In the future you wont want to spend extended periods away from home, at sea.
I do spend extended periods of time away from home. I'm generally gone for 7 months out of the year. I don't entirely disagree with your statement. Being away from home as much as I am is by far the biggest drawback of the career I've chosen. It makes a love/family life quite difficult. A lot of people are able to make it work, though, and the flip side of being away for 7 months is the fact that I'm home for 5 months a year. That's not bad.

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In my opinion, the best way to get on the water is on your own terms, which means having your own boat - and earning your living elsewhere.
I think this is a good point. When you make a career out of a hobby, it may take the joy out of it. Or, you may end up as one of those lucky few who 'never work a day in their life.'

Also, like others have said, I think the best kind of experience you could have going into brokerage would be sales. My step father sold boats for a few years after he retired. He was pretty good at it, too. The only reason he stopped is because he realized that the guy running the shop was a gold plated crook. The business shut down a year after he left. My stepfather had worked in sales and purchasing for thirty years prior to that gig, and I think that was the key to his success.
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Old 08-02-2016, 04:55 AM   #34
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One of my favorite shipmates has a couple of master's degrees in religion. One of the smartest and most interesting fellas I've ever sailed with. He's been sailing on tugs, dredges and freighters as a deckhand and Able Seaman for decades. Sometimes when we're shoveling big piles of dirt off the deck, the running joke is 'Hey Bill, how many college degrees does it take to shovel a ton of rocks?'



I do spend extended periods of time away from home. I'm generally gone for 7 months out of the year. I don't entirely disagree with your statement. Being away from home as much as I am is by far the biggest drawback of the career I've chosen. It makes a love/family life quite difficult. A lot of people are able to make it work, though, and the flip side of being away for 7 months is the fact that I'm home for 5 months a year. That's not bad.



I think this is a good point. When you make a career out of a hobby, it may take the joy out of it. Or, you may end up as one of those lucky few who 'never work a day in their life.'

Also, like others have said, I think the best kind of experience you could have going into brokerage would be sales. My step father sold boats for a few years after he retired. He was pretty good at it, too. The only reason he stopped is because he realized that the guy running the shop was a gold plated crook. The business shut down a year after he left. My stepfather had worked in sales and purchasing for thirty years prior to that gig, and I think that was the key to his success.
yep, you're right.
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Old 08-02-2016, 05:04 AM   #35
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"Thee are some remaining ship builders in the area including Electric Boat in Groton CT. ."

The area doesn't matter as much as the skill set.

IF you can go back to skool and get certified as a welder , you can work anywhere in the USA.

Nursing is lower paid but in demand everywhere.
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