View Poll Results: Which of the choices best describes your insurance situation
I carry insurance on damage to my boat plus liability 122 89.71%
I don't have coverage on my boat, but I do have liability insurance. 9 6.62%
I don't have either. 5 3.68%
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Old 03-29-2017, 08:36 PM   #21
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We have liability only. Our boat is valued at $40K. We live in the Keys. Boat US wanted $6,200 per year for full coverage or $200 a year for $300K liability only. That's right it is not a misprint. $6K a year to cover my $40K boat. We decided to self insure. In six and a half years we would have paid for their entire exposure. Stupid! We have never had a claim and live on a mooring, I will take my chances. Gieco who owns Boatus was a little cheaper at $5K a year. No thanks. We have not had a hurricane in the Keys for 12 years. Give us a break, and yes I know we will get one sometime but 12 years of collecting premiums with no storms has to count for somethimg.
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:16 PM   #22
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Insurance is only a risk/benefit situation... a financial decision.

I could argue strongly it the premium is 2% of the hull, it makes no sense to cover the hull.

For the most part, liability is pretty cheap, and will pay for the defense, which is nice especially for frivolous law suits (which is most of them)

So, insure for what you feel your risk level is.
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Old 03-29-2017, 09:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by READY2GO View Post
We have liability only. Our boat is valued at $40K. We live in the Keys. Boat US wanted $6,200 per year for full coverage or $200 a year for $300K liability only. That's right it is not a misprint. $6K a year to cover my $40K boat. We decided to self insure. In six and a half years we would have paid for their entire exposure.
Certainly think you have a valid point. Just curious, as a hypothetical, what would you consider a reasonable percentage (not $ amount) of hull value for a premium to be?

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Old 03-29-2017, 10:11 PM   #24
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This is a hobby. Why would one need insurance on something they could easily afford to replace? If my boat burned and sank I just would not need to pay moorage anymore. And I could afford to replace the boat so I see no reason to carry insurance.

I'm amazed how many here are insuring their boats. Why? Probably because most are buying boats on credit and the banks require it. Can't relate to that either. That is buying boats on credit.
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Old 03-29-2017, 10:22 PM   #25
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Yes, I agree.
I think everyone should be required to have everything.
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Old 03-29-2017, 10:27 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
This is a hobby. Why would one need insurance on something they could easily afford to replace? If my boat burned and sank I just would not need to pay moorage anymore. And I could afford to replace the boat so I see no reason to carry insurance.

I'm amazed how many here are insuring their boats. Why? Probably because most are buying boats on credit and the banks require it. Can't relate to that either. That is buying boats on credit.
We insure our boats for the same reason we insure my cars, for the same reason we insure our home, for the same reason we have health insurance, for the same reason we have umbrella insurance, for the same reason we have business insurance. Sharing the risks with others to avoid a major unplanned expenditure. I'm willing to engage in a poor financial deal for leveling the expenses related to any of these policies. I like to have a good handle on what my expenses are going to be next year. Without insurance if I had no claims, my costs would be a moderately less amount. However, a claim could make my costs many times what the insurance costs.
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Old 03-30-2017, 02:57 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by O C Diver View Post
Certainly think you have a valid point. Just curious, as a hypothetical, what would you consider a reasonable percentage (not $ amount) of hull value for a premium to be?

Ted
OC,

My number is 2% of hull value.. depending. If I'm doing the loop running almost daily there's a lot more exposure, more reason to insure. At home port, running out weekly, much less.

I have different numbers for cars, houses and planes. But overall, I could argue strongly against hull insurance.
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Old 03-30-2017, 03:06 AM   #28
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We insure our boats for the same reason we insure my cars, for the same reason we insure our home, for the same reason we have health insurance, for the same reason we have umbrella insurance, for the same reason we have business insurance. Sharing the risks with others to avoid a major unplanned expenditure. I'm willing to engage in a poor financial deal for leveling the expenses related to any of these policies. I like to have a good handle on what my expenses are going to be next year. Without insurance if I had no claims, my costs would be a moderately less amount. However, a claim could make my costs many times what the insurance costs.
BandB,

Nothing wrong with that philosophy, but eventually you will loose and pay more premiums than you get in benefits, unless you're just an awful risk. I believe most of us want to be safe and take aggressive steps for that, and we will come out way ahead.

Liability is a bit different than hull, and could argue that anything that moves or has people on it or in it could be a liability risk. And even though one most likely ever get back in claims than premiums, one huge loss could take more than a life time to recover, whereas the hull insurance premium can break even in 10 to 20 years. It's just a matter of numbers. I've never insured a car for collision or comprehensive, and I've never had a claim. I could buy another car or two for what I've saved in premiums, so it does work. I rarely insure a boat, but have a partner that wants it. I'm trying to convince him to drop it as we are paying 2% of hull which is ridiculous.

It's just a numbers game... with some risk/tolerance. I'll bet on myself and spend the premium money on safety or loss prevention.
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Old 03-30-2017, 05:39 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by READY2GO View Post
We have liability only. Our boat is valued at $40K. We live in the Keys. Boat US wanted $6,200 per year for full coverage or $200 a year for $300K liability only. That's right it is not a misprint. $6K a year to cover my $40K boat. We decided to self insure. In six and a half years we would have paid for their entire exposure. Stupid! We have never had a claim and live on a mooring, I will take my chances. Gieco who owns Boatus was a little cheaper at $5K a year. No thanks. We have not had a hurricane in the Keys for 12 years. Give us a break, and yes I know we will get one sometime but 12 years of collecting premiums with no storms has to count for somethimg.
I am surprise that for the first time I see something more expensive in US than in Canada! My boat is valued to 65K$ in it current state and it cost me around 500$ per year for full coverage with 2M liability, and for 50$ more they I get extras like towing coverage, lodging if I am stucked somewhere and many other things. Maybe in your case the hurricane hazard is making your cost higher but I would nt have thought it would be such higher.

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Old 03-30-2017, 05:59 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
This is a hobby. Why would one need insurance on something they could easily afford to replace? If my boat burned and sank I just would not need to pay moorage anymore. And I could afford to replace the boat so I see no reason to carry insurance.

I'm amazed how many here are insuring their boats. Why? Probably because most are buying boats on credit and the banks require it. Can't relate to that either. That is buying boats on credit.

I have a friend who is a doctor with a small house on the beach. He only carries homeowners, not wind or flood. He can afford to rebuild the house from his bank account and invests the money he would have paid for those oh so high premiums. So far, he's already way ahead. Most of us can't do that. Most large companies self insure to a large degree for the same reason. They are depreciating stuff down on a schedule anyway.

Our boat is paid for but I would have a hard time getting my wife to co-sign the check to replace it if we didn't have insurance!
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Old 03-30-2017, 06:40 AM   #31
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Certainly think you have a valid point. Just curious, as a hypothetical, what would you consider a reasonable percentage (not $ amount) of hull value for a premium to be?

Ted
I think for the Keys, 3 or 4 percent would be fair. 15% is beyond ridiculous.

Geico had an "Actual Cash Value" policy that they would sell me for $2,600. I had them send me a sample policy so I could read how the depreciation would be calculated in the event of a claim. They depreciate 10% per year after the boat is 20 years old with a maximum depreciation of 80%. My boat is 28 years old and thus would incur the maximum of 80%. So in the event of a major mishap of say $20K they would take $16K off the top, then deduct the $2K deductible leaving a payout of $2K, not even one years premium. This is borderline criminal to me.

I think the $200 a year for $300K of liability exposure is just as ridiculous only the opposite way. Way to large an exposure for such a small premium. I am a claims adjuster for an independent claims company so we work with a lot of different companies. See lots of stupid stuff. Nothing with an insurance company has to make sense. It just is what it is.
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Old 03-30-2017, 07:44 AM   #32
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Why would one need insurance on something they could easily afford to replace?

I'm amazed how many here are insuring their boats. Why?

Without regard to funding source or financing or whatever...

I, for one, can't "easily afford to replace" a few hundred thousand $$$...

I would suspect may of us can afford to buy a boat, but couldn't afford to buy a second boat (replacement) if the first one suffers catastrophic loss.

Maybe that's a related poll question: How many could afford to walk away from a catastrophic loss? How many could also fund a replacement?

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Old 03-30-2017, 08:27 AM   #33
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I think for the Keys, 3 or 4 percent would be fair. 15% is beyond ridiculous.

Geico had an "Actual Cash Value" policy that they would sell me for $2,600. I had them send me a sample policy so I could read how the depreciation would be calculated in the event of a claim. They depreciate 10% per year after the boat is 20 years old with a maximum depreciation of 80%. My boat is 28 years old and thus would incur the maximum of 80%. So in the event of a major mishap of say $20K they would take $16K off the top, then deduct the $2K deductible leaving a payout of $2K, not even one years premium. This is borderline criminal to me.

I think the $200 a year for $300K of liability exposure is just as ridiculous only the opposite way. Way to large an exposure for such a small premium. I am a claims adjuster for an independent claims company so we work with a lot of different companies. See lots of stupid stuff. Nothing with an insurance company has to make sense. It just is what it is.
Is your risk adjusted according to location in FLA and hurricanes ?

We have Boat US insurance liability only, I think is at least $500,000 and costs us about $400 per year, that is it. Had to get surveyed years ago and I never dropped coverage.
Boat is in Seaford Va on Chisman creek part of the Chesapeake Bay.
No point having comprehensive for my boat built in 1970. If anything goes wrong with it, I just fix myself. I have never had a claim.

Our policy years ago was a lot less money, then got a letter saying due to all the hurricane payouts that upped their costs, they were upping our costs to compensate.
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Old 03-30-2017, 09:25 AM   #34
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BandB,

Nothing wrong with that philosophy, but eventually you will loose and pay more premiums than you get in benefits, unless you're just an awful risk. I believe most of us want to be safe and take aggressive steps for that, and we will come out way ahead.
Yes, odds are heavy I will lose. I hope to lose. And, no, it has nothing to do with just my being a good or awful risk. It only takes one time of a marina fire started by someone else or of the bridge tender dropping the bridge before I've cleared it (yes, this did happen in our area a couple of years ago, millions of damage to the boat and the owner's insurance had to pay as the government entities fought over responsibility) or one bunch of drunks out at night ramming into my boat while it's at a transient dock.

I try to be safe and take aggressive steps, but I can't protect against every possible thing that can happen.

Let me ask you this. If your boat was a 78' Nordhavn that cost $4 million used, would you still feel the same, be willing to take the chance and play the odds?

I don't control the odds on the actions of others.
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:06 AM   #35
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Hard to imagine one extended so far that they can't afford to loose their yacht.
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:29 AM   #36
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Hard to imagine one extended so far that they can't afford to loose their yacht.
Just because one can afford it, doesn't mean one wants to subject themselves to that risk.
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:41 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
This is a hobby. Why would one need insurance on something they could easily afford to replace? If my boat burned and sank I just would not need to pay moorage anymore. And I could afford to replace the boat so I see no reason to carry insurance.

I'm amazed how many here are insuring their boats. Why? Probably because most are buying boats on credit and the banks require it. Can't relate to that either. That is buying boats on credit.


I understand the sentiment and generally agree with it. However, I have a loan on my boat simply because I didn't want to tie up that much cash. I also couldn't easily afford to replace the boat if it was severely damaged or sustained a total loss. Hence, I have it insured. At some point, I will drop the comprehensive but of course still keep the liability.

Insurance, of any kind, is there to protect us from losses that we can't afford or chose not to bare the risk ourselves. My house is insured, one car is insured. My commercial real estate is insured. Those are potential losses which would be tough to absorb.
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:46 AM   #38
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BandB,



Nothing wrong with that philosophy, but eventually you will loose and pay more premiums than you get in benefits, unless you're just an awful risk. I believe most of us want to be safe and take aggressive steps for that, and we will come out way ahead.

I don't think you will find much disagreement there. Again, we insure against risk that we can't take, or chose not to take. If your dirtside house burned down, you could afford to find a place to live, but do you have fire insurance on your house anyway? If so, it is because it is a risk that you chose not to take. The same is true, at the moment, on my boat. I would be hurt financially if I needed to replace the boat. That means either I get out of boating, or I jeopardize my retirement.

Of course I will pay more in premiums than I will get back in paid claims! Only an idiot would hope for the opposite.
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Old 03-30-2017, 11:17 AM   #39
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I don't think you will find much disagreement there. Again, we insure against risk that we can't take, or chose not to take. If your dirtside house burned down, you could afford to find a place to live, but do you have fire insurance on your house anyway? If so, it is because it is a risk that you chose not to take. The same is true, at the moment, on my boat. I would be hurt financially if I needed to replace the boat. That means either I get out of boating, or I jeopardize my retirement.

Of course I will pay more in premiums than I will get back in paid claims! Only an idiot would hope for the opposite.
The policy I most hope is a bad investment is life insurance. I hope to live well beyond the actuarial estimates they've used to determine what to charge me.
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Old 03-30-2017, 11:18 AM   #40
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Hard to imagine one extended so far that they can't afford to loose their yacht.

"Extended" has nothing to do with it.

Using B&B's earlier query to somebody, if your boat was a $4M 78' Nordhavn... free and clear ownership... would you be OK with a total loss?

That's similar to maybe being OK with tearing up and burning a $4M bill (if there were such a thing).

Happens I can't afford to do that but even if I could, I wouldn't want to take that risk...

I don't see the question as any different from home, auto, life, or health insurance. Our boat insurance doesn't have anything to do with "hobby" status, only with how much risk I'm willing to accept. On anything.

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