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Old 08-10-2015, 09:13 AM   #81
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A bit surprised no one has come up with a hybrid pod drive system yet. One large generator placed anywhere you want it, in a sound shield, any number of pod drives with electric motors. You would pick even more space from a smaller engine room. I realize Volvo is not going to go this route as they are selling the engine/pod package, but Zeus is just selling the drive coupled to any engine. Not sure I see what the advantage would really be, but then I don't really see the advantage of the pod in any event. I mean how many times do I really need to hold my boat completely still?
Answer to your question (regarding males only - [well, mostly these days, anyway - lol] )

Why to be "completely still": Well... why not while standing peeing in the head. Approx. 5 times per day.

Soooo... 5 times per day x average of 200 days boat use per year = 1000 times annually x 10 years = 10,000 +/- standing-still pee minutes per decade!

Then take the $10,000 (presumed) cost of a pod and divide it by a decade of pees... that = only $1 per pee to hit dead center. Greatly relieves splatter effects!!

Existence revolves around math... humans revolve around $$$ and ease of peeing! Life becomes astounding when broken down to its lowest denominators.
LOL
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Old 08-10-2015, 10:05 AM   #82
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The new boat buyers I have met are moving up from smaller day boats or none at all. They are not confidant in their ability to handle a big boat and neither are the insurance companies. Mostly they lean towards the modern euro style designs where the boats cost so much that any additional cost for pods is lost in the overall pricing.
These are people who want a boat in warranty so they don't have to know much or worry about repair costs.


Forget all the tradition and experience. New boat features are being driven by the makers. Pods are here to stay and the space savings and ease of assembly added to the ease of use selling point make them the future.
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Old 08-10-2015, 10:13 AM   #83
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A bit surprised no one has come up with a hybrid pod drive system yet.
Ever heard of an "Azipod"? They were invented by ABB and have been used since 1990.
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Old 08-10-2015, 10:15 AM   #84
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Anyone want to comment on the insurance aspects of pod drives. If you lose the drive, will insurance cover?
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Old 08-10-2015, 10:27 AM   #85
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I looked at the ER of a triple Volvo pod auzmut and was impressed by the compact neat design. The engines and drives just looked compact without all the usual auxiliary stuff hanging on or going to and from the engines. They may be a bear to work on but the look was elegant.
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Old 08-10-2015, 10:46 AM   #86
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Any stats on how many pods have actually so far be sold to the pleasure cruising market for boats 50' and under?
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Old 08-10-2015, 12:56 PM   #87
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Pods could replace stern drives in some areas/situations.

Stern drives were a very popular drive system until outboards saw a resurgence around 2005 or so...that a very loose statement what a high ranking Brunswick Corp officer was saying back then.

I still think out drives are more useful in shallow waters...
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Old 08-10-2015, 01:06 PM   #88
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One concern is that as boats age, they are quite restricted to THAT particular pod. Especially IPS where it is an engine/pod package. So lets say Volvo changes the design of the pod, and stops supporting old ones. Something Volvo has done before with their engines/gears!!!

Then that boat is really orphaned. Not easy then to adapt to something else. Time to whip out the sawzalls, glass and glue!!
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Old 08-10-2015, 04:58 PM   #89
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Anyone want to comment on the insurance aspects of pod drives. If you lose the drive, will insurance cover?
If you lose it as a result of a covered accident or event, then yes.

Now the issue may come if you don't know what you hit. Then some policies allow the insurer to assert manufacturing defect and not pay. Everyone needs to make sure their insurance does not have exclusions like that.

Some policies also have clauses with implied warranties of seaworthiness. That would allow them to claim when your boat sinks in the ocean to claim it wasn't seaworthy and you had an implied warranty it was. Therefore, they aren't responsible.

But on a good policy, the lost pod would be covered.
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Old 08-10-2015, 05:09 PM   #90
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If you lose it as a result of a covered accident or event, then yes.

Now the issue may come if you don't know what you hit. Then some policies allow the insurer to assert manufacturing defect and not pay. Everyone needs to make sure their insurance does not have exclusions like that.

Some policies also have clauses with implied warranties of seaworthiness. That would allow them to claim when your boat sinks in the ocean to claim it wasn't seaworthy and you had an implied warranty it was. Therefore, they aren't responsible.

But on a good policy, the lost pod would be covered.
The good ol' "F-U" ins policy factor. If not careful when having policy written so that ins coverage works best to meet "U're" needs... Then, an ins co's quick flash of typed words on the policy can have several "F-U" factors coyly inserted. So that "U" just might get "Fcked"... in the end.
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Old 08-10-2015, 05:13 PM   #91
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If you lose it as a result of a covered accident or event, then yes.

Now the issue may come if you don't know what you hit. Then some policies allow the insurer to assert manufacturing defect and not pay. Everyone needs to make sure their insurance does not have exclusions like that.

Some policies also have clauses with implied warranties of seaworthiness. That would allow them to claim when your boat sinks in the ocean to claim it wasn't seaworthy and you had an implied warranty it was. Therefore, they aren't responsible.

But on a good policy, the lost pod would be covered.
I sure hope the insurance wizards put pod drive boats in a separate insurance pool.
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Old 08-11-2015, 06:40 AM   #92
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"Stern drives were a very popular drive system until outboards saw a resurgence around 2005 or so.."

That's about when modified 4 stroke auto engines of a good size began to be built on a OB lower shaft.

That made the OB about as reliable as the IO.

And a heck of a lot easier to change out.
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Old 08-11-2015, 08:28 AM   #93
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I believe Pods will always have a place in the mid-sized (say, 30' to 50') "new-build" pleasure boat market. Just not a very big place for the foreseeable future.

Upsides to Pods: For consumers they offer several unique and desired boat-handling features as well as taking care of other boating desires (such as reduced vibration and more bilge space).

Current down sides to Pods: Troubling questions about product-use-longevity (unproven as of yet – e.g. will Pods withstand multi thousand hour usage at high rpm or while experiencing load-stress?); as well, there are sinking-danger items (proven). Insurance coverage for all levels of Pod circumstances being another factor. Initial cost as well as maintenance costs are factors too. I wonder how well they will last submerged in salt water (or even fresh water)… for the long, long term… ya know… 10, 20, 30 or more years.

I imagine boat manufacturers like pods for ease of installation, reduced installation cost?? But, due to current Pod product cost I bet there is a fair markup needed on retail price.

Another interesting potential holdback mentioned in this thread relates to “what ifs”… regarding Pod manufacturers no longer producing same models and for some reason new Pod(s) become needed on an originally equipped boat that is then years old, with no replacements available. I don’t believe there will be a plentiful “used/refurbished” Pod market for at least sometime (if ever). It would be a bitch to have a Pod driveline in an aging boat where there is nothing ready to accommodate replacement needs for new Pods. That scenario would probably give rise to outboard motor placements… but, then, what to do with the inboards that powered the Pods?? For many, many layout and mechanical reasons of an originally Pod-equipped boat I doubt there would be opportunity to suddenly retrofit that boat with transmission, shaft, struts, prop, rudder etc, etc…

I'm confident pods will not anytime soon become a big player in retro-fitting/repowering of used pleasure boats. I’m equally confident that in ways/shapes and forms for some new boats Pod sales are here to stay.

BTW, do pods reduce or eliminate the need for trim tabs, such as outboards and outdrives can?

As I asked in post #86: “Any stats on how many pods have actually so far be sold to the pleasure cruising market for boats 50' and under?” I imagine the number is not too large in comparison to other driveline types.

Happy Driveline Daze! - Art
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Old 08-11-2015, 08:58 AM   #94
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Interesting points about parts. We have all become accustomed to parts being available on the popular engines, at least, virtually forever. With Volvos poor reputation for not supporting older models that assumption becomes very questionable.

It doesn't matter to the new boat buyer many of whom keep buying new boats every few years to stay in warranty.
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Old 08-11-2015, 09:51 AM   #95
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BTW, do pods reduce or eliminate the need for trim tabs, such as outboards and outdrives can?
]
Minimal reduction. Zeus comes with trim tabs. Many with IPS add them.
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:39 AM   #96
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Pods = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Old 08-11-2015, 10:49 AM   #97
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Pods = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I guess... but so far, above discussion hasn't (I think?) surfaced a complete in-depth comparison between an engine/pod set-up (which would include joystick and dynamic positioning, etc.) versus a standard inboard of comparable power* with gears, shafts, seals, logs, props, etc. plus joystick control with dynamic positioning.

(*accepting the claim that pods need less engine than straight shaft installations.)

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Old 08-11-2015, 11:08 AM   #98
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Update from the OP:

Friend's boat is on the hard. Insurance adjuster has seen the boat. Drive loss is covered by insurance. A diver could not locate the missing appendage. Now they are trying to "locate" a replacement drive unit. BTW, it is a Cummins Zeus drive. Once they locate a drive, they need to locate a Cummins crew that would be "available" to do the installation. Sadly the northeast boating season is slipping away and my friend is really upset by the whole thing. I believe we all can feel his pain.

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Old 08-11-2015, 11:28 AM   #99
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I doubt if the people buying new boats with Zeus or IPS drives are overly concerned with the extra purchase or maintenance costs. Pod drives are becoming standard equipment on many higher end cruising boats. Standard shaft driven drives are not even an option on new Sabres. There are three pod equipped boats on my dock, The owners seem to be happy with them and love the docking maneuverability. We had one boat try to sink this year and it was a failed dripless shaft seal on an older boat.

I have checked out the pod equipped boats on shore during the winter and have not seen much in the way of corrosion, some have a crop of barnacles just like many props, shafts and struts develop. The owners that have their drives coated with PropSpeed seem to do well at keeping growth off of the drives.
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Old 08-11-2015, 04:25 PM   #100
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How much extra draft do Pods require by hanging off the bottom (if any) as compared to straight or V-drive I/B set ups. I imagine there are new hull designs with caverns so Pod can not need add too much draft'
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