The Pod Parted

[Donsan]

If you lose it as a result of a covered accident or event, then yes.

Now the issue may come if you don't know what you hit. Then some policies allow the insurer to assert manufacturing defect and not pay. Everyone needs to make sure their insurance does not have exclusions like that.

Some policies also have clauses with implied warranties of seaworthiness. That would allow them to claim when your boat sinks in the ocean to claim it wasn't seaworthy and you had an implied warranty it was. Therefore, they aren't responsible.

But on a good policy, the lost pod would be covered.

I sure hope the insurance wizards put pod drive boats in a separate insurance pool.

 

[FF]

"Stern drives were a very popular drive system until outboards saw a resurgence around 2005 or so.."

That's about when modified 4 stroke auto engines of a good size began to be built on a OB lower shaft.

That made the OB about as reliable as the IO.

And a heck of a lot easier to change out.

 

[Art]

I believe Pods will always have a place in the mid-sized (say, 30' to 50') "new-build" pleasure boat market. Just not a very big place for the foreseeable future.

Upsides to Pods: For consumers they offer several unique and desired boat-handling features as well as taking care of other boating desires (such as reduced vibration and more bilge space).

Current down sides to Pods: Troubling questions about product-use-longevity (unproven as of yet – e.g. will Pods withstand multi thousand hour usage at high rpm or while experiencing load-stress?); as well, there are sinking-danger items (proven). Insurance coverage for all levels of Pod circumstances being another factor. Initial cost as well as maintenance costs are factors too. I wonder how well they will last submerged in salt water (or even fresh water)… for the long, long term… ya know… 10, 20, 30 or more years.

I imagine boat manufacturers like pods for ease of installation, reduced installation cost?? But, due to current Pod product cost I bet there is a fair markup needed on retail price.

Another interesting potential holdback mentioned in this thread relates to “what ifs”… regarding Pod manufacturers no longer producing same models and for some reason new Pod(s) become needed on an originally equipped boat that is then years old, with no replacements available. I don’t believe there will be a plentiful “used/refurbished” Pod market for at least sometime (if ever). It would be a bitch to have a Pod driveline in an aging boat where there is nothing ready to accommodate replacement needs for new Pods. That scenario would probably give rise to outboard motor placements… but, then, what to do with the inboards that powered the Pods?? For many, many layout and mechanical reasons of an originally Pod-equipped boat I doubt there would be opportunity to suddenly retrofit that boat with transmission, shaft, struts, prop, rudder etc, etc…

I'm confident pods will not anytime soon become a big player in retro-fitting/repowering of used pleasure boats. I’m equally confident that in ways/shapes and forms for some new boats Pod sales are here to stay.

BTW, do pods reduce or eliminate the need for trim tabs, such as outboards and outdrives can?

As I asked in post #86: “Any stats on how many pods have actually so far be sold to the pleasure cruising market for boats 50' and under?” I imagine the number is not too large in comparison to other driveline types.

Happy Driveline Daze! - Art

 

[bayview]

Interesting points about parts. We have all become accustomed to parts being available on the popular engines, at least, virtually forever. With Volvos poor reputation for not supporting older models that assumption becomes very questionable.

It doesn't matter to the new boat buyer many of whom keep buying new boats every few years to stay in warranty.

 

[BandB]

BTW, do pods reduce or eliminate the need for trim tabs, such as outboards and outdrives can?
]

Minimal reduction. Zeus comes with trim tabs. Many with IPS add them.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Pods = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[ranger58sb]

Pods = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I guess... but so far, above discussion hasn't (I think?) surfaced a complete in-depth comparison between an engine/pod set-up (which would include joystick and dynamic positioning, etc.) versus a standard inboard of comparable power* with gears, shafts, seals, logs, props, etc. plus joystick control with dynamic positioning.

(*accepting the claim that pods need less engine than straight shaft installations.)

-Chris

 

[hmason]

Update from the OP:

Friend's boat is on the hard. Insurance adjuster has seen the boat. Drive loss is covered by insurance. A diver could not locate the missing appendage. Now they are trying to "locate" a replacement drive unit. BTW, it is a Cummins Zeus drive. Once they locate a drive, they need to locate a Cummins crew that would be "available" to do the installation. Sadly the northeast boating season is slipping away and my friend is really upset by the whole thing. I believe we all can feel his pain.

Howard

 

[BlueYonder]

I doubt if the people buying new boats with Zeus or IPS drives are overly concerned with the extra purchase or maintenance costs. Pod drives are becoming standard equipment on many higher end cruising boats. Standard shaft driven drives are not even an option on new Sabres. There are three pod equipped boats on my dock, The owners seem to be happy with them and love the docking maneuverability. We had one boat try to sink this year and it was a failed dripless shaft seal on an older boat.

I have checked out the pod equipped boats on shore during the winter and have not seen much in the way of corrosion, some have a crop of barnacles just like many props, shafts and struts develop. The owners that have their drives coated with PropSpeed seem to do well at keeping growth off of the drives.

 

[Art]

How much extra draft do Pods require by hanging off the bottom (if any) as compared to straight or V-drive I/B set ups. I imagine there are new hull designs with caverns so Pod can not need add too much draft'

 

[Marin]

From the side elevations I've seen of the GB41EU, the pods don't hang down as far as earlier twin GBs with conventional shafts, struts, props, and rudders.

 

[Moonstruck]

How much extra draft do Pods require by hanging off the bottom (if any) as compared to straight or V-drive I/B set ups. I imagine there are new hull designs with caverns so Pod can not need add too much draft'

I think the Zeus Drives need to be mounted flatly and vertically on the hull. This almost necessitates a "pocket" situation for anything but a purely flat bottomed boat.

Many straight drives have propeller pockets to reduce draft, and allow a more vertical line for the propeller. Moonstruck has this arrangement.

 

[BandB]

How much extra draft do Pods require by hanging off the bottom (if any) as compared to straight or V-drive I/B set ups. I imagine there are new hull designs with caverns so Pod can not need add too much draft'

On the boats I've seen that offered both straight and pods, the pods have had about 3" on average extra draft. However, I've also seen the exact opposite. On a Sundancer 510 the draft with V-drives is 49" and the draft with Zeus is 47". So it seems to be a boat specific situation.

 

[CPseudonym]

Moonstruck is a great boat to compare draft with as it is still in production at Sabre but only in pod drive now.

 

[Codger2]

Many straight drives have propeller pockets to reduce draft, and allow a more vertical line for the propeller. Moonstruck has this arrangement.

So does "Sandpiper".

 

[BandB]

Moonstruck is a great boat to compare draft with as it is still in production at Sabre but only in pod drive now.

Interestingly Sabre doesn't publish draft on their website. I found on Yachtworld draft shown as 3'9" is 440 Yanmars. Meanwhile I found a review with twin Cummins 380 hp Zeus at 3'4". They currently offer two choices in Zeus and two in IPS on that boat. Other sources seemed to confirm those numbers. I did not find one with IPS anywhere.

 

[Moonstruck]

Interestingly Sabre doesn't publish draft on their website. I found on Yachtworld draft shown as 3'9" is 440 Yanmars. Meanwhile I found a review with twin Cummins 380 hp Zeus at 3'4". They currently offer two choices in Zeus and two in IPS on that boat. Other sources seemed to confirm those numbers. I did not find one with IPS anywhere.

With my straight drives the draft loaded is 3' 9". So, probably very comparable. Mine has twin 500 hp.

Actually, the fuel figures quoted for both a pretty close. I'm a happy camper.

 

[BandB]

With my straight drives the draft loaded is 3' 9". So, probably very comparable. Mine has twin 500 hp.

Actually, the fuel figures quoted for both a pretty close. I'm a happy camper.

What is funny in their current offering is the twin Zeus 380 hp and twin IPS 500 (370 hp) perform and consume almost the same. However, the twin IPS 600 (438 hp) not only adds more than 6 knots in WOT speed and several knots per hour all the way through the range, it gets better fuel economy than the Zeus or the smaller IPS at every speed above 15 knots and about the same below that. At 2400 rpm, the larger IPS model gets 1.05 nmpg vs. 0.89 for the smaller engine. It's one of those situations that if you didn't see their performance reports you'd never think.

Sabre's website is one of the best I've seen. Detailed performance reports, good specifications (well, except draft), nice virtual tours, up-to-date News, Calendar and Events. I think of them as a quality company and their site reinforces that image.

I know some would say a website's not very important but I think it does reflect a company's attention to detail and professionalism. I'm not talking about fancy design features, but good information and current. I hate going to a site and they're announcing the 2012 boat show they'll be showing in and the latest news is 2011. Oh and kudos to their dealer search too. Not only easy to find dealers but they show the current dealer inventory and the boats on order.

 

[Moonstruck]

I have chatted with the management at Sabre. They are aware of increasing their internet presence. They are one of the best at putting virtual tours up for most of their models.

Engines sized properly for the boat will get better mileage even if it means the larger engines. We can cruise 26-27 knots at about 1 statute mpg. The reason in statute is that is what the ICW is marked. On a long trip it is easy to calculate fuel mileage between fuel stops. Of course, it includes some slow running, but not much. That is also with a full load of gear and passengers for cruising.

 

[hmason]

On August 4th I posted the original thread. It's interesting to note that as of today August 31st my friend's boat is still out of service as Cummins Zeus can't locate a replacement drive. It's concerning that a part that is designed to shear off cannot be replaced in short order. I would keep this in mind should you ever consider a boat with this propulsion setup. He's lost at least 1/3 of his boating season. With Labor Day weekend on the horizon he is rightfully p o'd.

Howard

 

[Sailor of Fortune]

If Sabre is only offering Zeus drives , I believe this will lead to there eventual downfall. 1MPG(statute mile) @26 kts is a very economical run. Sabre can tout Cummins/zeus drive , but the word will get out about parts availability and other problems . The straight drive set up is proven, why not offer it, as they had done for years? The market may prove me wrong.
I want to be the Zeus dealer in the Bahamas! No Problem Mon, wee have it here in a week.
Whats wrong with the proven straight drive setup, in half tunnels that the Sabres are known for?

 

[THD]

I find it amazing that replacement drives are not readily available and on short notice. Zeus is Mercury Marine, not exactly a small or startup company. As far as I am aware, most of Mercury's manufacturing is in this country. If a company like Mercury cannot deliver replacement parts, including the entire drive, in just a few days, it does not bode well for there future. Hell, you can buy OEM as well as aftermarket lower units for just about everything Mercury has ever made, pretty much off the shelf.

 

[Art]

Not to hijack this thread from pod discussion... but...

In general similarity, regarding pleasure boat unique propulsion system choices: What happened to jet-drives?

Is it that straight drive is simply the best yet... I think maybe!

 

[hmason]

I just learned that the techs from Mercury arrived yesterday to install the new drive. Oops, they were missing a part so it was a no go. Talk about disappointment. Even the travel lift operator was standing by. Still a few days until Labor Day weekend so there's still a chance.

 

[sunchaser]

On August 4th I posted the original thread. It's interesting to note that as of today August 31st my friend's boat is still out of service as Cummins Zeus can't locate a replacement drive.
Howard

One month seems pretty fast for a low volume mechanical unit. The rest of the story sounds salacious, why did he hit a rock? Who knows, maybe his boat would have sunk had he straight shafts.

 

[hmason]

One month seems pretty fast for a low volume mechanical unit. The rest of the story sounds salacious, why did he hit a rock?

Why does anyone hit a submerged object? I'm pretty sure it wasn't because he wanted to. As to parts availability, a big company entering the market with a new and expensive product should be prepared to support that product. They should have pulled a drive off an existing unsold boat and pleased a customer that bought a boat with their drive. A good business doesn't sully their reputation with poor customer support. The only good side to this disaster is that it happened close to home. I'm can only imagine the inconvenience had he been doing the loop or be heading somewhere far from home.

 

[Art]

One month seems pretty fast for a low volume mechanical unit. The rest of the story sounds salacious, why did he hit a rock? Who knows, maybe his boat would have sunk had he straight shafts.

"...sounds salacious, why did he hit a rock?"

I no comprender... might have to ask the wife... on second thought, better not!

 

[sunchaser]

They should have pulled a drive off an existing unsold boat and pleased a custormer that bought a boat with their drive. A good business doesn't sully their reputation with poor customer support. .

If it were my vessel I'd be grateful for a one month turnaround for a skipper induced oops on a new design assembly. Had the drive failed "on its own" there may well have been a quicker response. I don't believe Sabre builds many boats on spec, so a spare unit may well have been not there.

Hamilton jet drives had early day repair part issues as their units were subjected to torturous duty in the Snake River. They lacked the cash reserves to build up spare inventory, Sabre is no different in this tough boating market. Don't blame Zeus, they are sold forward.

Was the rock on charts?

 

[hmason]

If it were my vessel I'd be grateful for a one month turnaround for a skipper induced oops on a new design assembly. Had the drive failed "on its own" there may well have been a quicker response. I don't believe Sabre builds many boats on spec, so a spare unit may well have been not there.

Hamilton jet drives had early day repair part issues as their units were subjected to torturous duty in the Snake River. They lacked the cash reserves to build up spare inventory, Sabre is no different in this tough boating market. Don't blame Zeus, they are sold forward.

Was the rock on charts?

Let's not taint Sabre as the boat is a Meridian. And, although Mercury sells the part "forward" Meridian also has a responsibility to the customer that purchased its product. One of the real issues in the boating world is the boat manufacturers' ability to hide behind the warranties of the equipment manufacturer. Granted, this is not a warranty issue, but you did raise the subject tangentially. Were this an automobile, the owner would be dealing with the dealer that sold the car, not the manufacturer of the transmission.

Whether or not the rock was on the charts is not relevant to the issue at hand. What we are discussing is a manufacturer's responsibility and responsiveness to a customer. Let's remember that one of the selling points for the pod drive is it's ability to shear off if hit. This benefit is negated if one cannot get the replacement part in a reasonable time frame. A month is not, in my view reasonable. It appears that you do your boating in AZ. I think you would feel differently if your season was only 5 months long as it is here in CT. One month represents 20% of the boating season.

Howard

 

[Cottontop]

If it were my vessel I'd be grateful for a one month turnaround for a skipper induced oops on a new design assembly. Had the drive failed "on its own" there may well have been a quicker response. I don't believe Sabre builds many boats on spec, so a spare unit may well have been not there.

Hamilton jet drives had early day repair part issues as their units were subjected to torturous duty in the Snake River. They lacked the cash reserves to build up spare inventory, Sabre is no different in this tough boating market. Don't blame Zeus, they are sold forward.

Was the rock on charts?

This is not a warranty event; not sure why Sabre would be in the mix.

Nor are Zeus drives new; they've been out for years.

If the "normal" time it takes to get a drive replaced is more than one month, I won't buy the product.