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Old 02-01-2016, 02:47 AM   #1
City: Vancouver,BC
Country: Canada
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 23
Please Help with Advice

Hi, I am new here and already asking for advice.
I am just about to sign an offer to purchase a 37 years old 41ft Europa and got hold on 2 years old survey.
The boat is in fantastic condition maintained to the highest level except...

The surveyor found some water entry under teak decks by means of hammer testing. Mostly foredeck and some on stern deck and cabin roof (all teak). He did not find any staining or deterioration below decks, but of course he did not remove any headliners to inspect.

Hammer testing of the bulwark liner showed to him that the plywood under the surface was badly deteriorated on all the foredeck and one side of the transom. (I noticed nothing untoward when looking at the boat but my boat knowledge is non existent).

The small areas of softness (approx. 3 inch size) were found on trunk cabin sides and roof. Occasional small diameter spots (1 inch) in various locations around the superstructure.

I love this boat but I do not want my emotions affect the common sense.
Do these findings disqualify the boat ? Is there a structural concern?
There is no smell and nothing is wet or moist inside, but the boat is kept in the boathouse when not used.

Should I go ahead and proceed with my own surveyor or it is a waste of time and money? I do not want to end up with expensive an troublesome repairs soon.
Please help with advice,

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Old 02-01-2016, 03:25 AM   #2
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From my little experience so far what ever you find wrong on a 40yo boat you have most likely missed the other 60% and what ever you think it will cost to repair quadruple $ it and add a little more.

I was once in love with a boat that needed extensive repairs I offered 1/3 of the asking price and my offer was quickly excepted I still ran like Forest Gump go with open eyes and listen to you gut feeling

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Old 02-01-2016, 05:03 AM   #3
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I have repaired soft decks before. That 3 inch soft spot is about 3 foot once you start digging. If you are handy and have plenty of time, it may be worth it if the price is right. IMHO, once there has been water intrusion; it spreads to places you can't see or tap with a hammer and is always more, never less, than you expect. Get prices for the 'worst case' repair and double it.
I now have a composite cored vessel for a good reason. I actually have time to use it now.
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Old 02-01-2016, 05:21 AM   #4
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While I don't know the price of the boat, based on it's size and age, if you can't do the repairs yourself, you may spend as much on the repairs as the purchase. Jobs like those are time and materials. Estimates are worthless as there is no accurate way to determine the extent of damage until it's opened up. Buying it and doing nothing, keeping it in a covered slip is an option, but resale value later will be almost nothing. Because of age, condition, and market value, I'd walk away.

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Old 02-01-2016, 07:55 AM   #5
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My first question would be what was done to remedy the findings in the 2 year old survey. If they weren't addressed, the situation has probably gotten worse. Get more information from the broker.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:30 AM   #6
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Get a new survey. A lot can happen in two years.

IMHO, If you love the boat and the price is right (whatever that means to you) and you go in with your eyes open knowing the possibilities listed above (more repairs, higher expenses, lower resale value) than do it. It's your boat and your money.

IF you're looking to own it for two years to do the loop and then sell it to get your money back. Then, probably run away.

IF this is one of the very first boats you've looked at and fell in love, then maybe you keep looking. IF you've looked and looked and looked and still love this one above all others then maybe you do it if you know what you're getting into and willing to take the risks.

IF you don't have a buyer's broker. Get one.

Others will disagree. :-)
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:52 AM   #7
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I agree with virtually all that has been said before. But what you do depends a lot on the price of the boat. If it is US$50,000 I wouldn't repair anything. The softness will progress, but soft decks rarely, if ever makes a boat unsound structurally.

But if the price is $200,000 then it probably makes sense to spend many thousands of dollars to fix it. No survey, either the 2 year old one or a current one will tell you with any accuracy what it will take to fix it. It is a pure guess.

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Old 02-01-2016, 09:52 AM   #8
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If you are considering a buyer's broker I recommend Brian Kell at Grand Yachts in Coal Harbor Quay.
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Old 02-01-2016, 10:06 AM   #9
City: gulf coast
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I have been boating and fixing boats for a long time. Problems such as those are expensive and time consuming to fix. IMO this is not for the inexperienced.

There are plenty of boats in good condition. Buy one of them and learn to enjoy boating not fixing.
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Old 02-01-2016, 07:53 PM   #10
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I am just about to sign an offer to purchase a 37 years old 41ft Europa and got hold on 2 years old survey.

Enough said by others about the pitfalls you are facing.


Find and talk to some shipwrights/yards with experience with these types of repairs. Do not sign anything YET untill you have done so. This kind of repair can be dealt with but do not go by any 2 yr old survey and do not believe the sales broker. Even good ones will take an optimistic view of repairs that is not to your favour.

Further, even if you pass on this boat you need to start looking NOW for a good surveyor of YOUR OWN. Also find a good diesel mechanic of YOUR OWN for the mechanical survey.
Line these up before looking for the next boat.

Keep in mind what they tell you will be opinion but based on lots of experience. [Good ones]

If you really want to pursue this boat then get your own surveyor NOW before any signature goes on paper.

I know people who have done core repairs. There are many on this forum who have done them. It can be done successfully by owners BUT not if you also want to use the boat once repairs are started. It also takes some guidance and maybe experience.

A couple fellows I knew hired a shipwright to guide them and then at certain stages take over , then leaving the owner to carry on, untill the next critical stage. It worked well. Sweat equity but when some real skill/ knowledge was needed the shipwright was available.
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Old 03-13-2016, 10:03 AM   #11
City: Vancouver,BC
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Originally Posted by bayview View Post
There are plenty of boats in good condition. Buy one of them and learn to enjoy boating not fixing.
This is exactly what I did.

But first I'd like to thank everybody for advice.

So, finally I bought 1982 Ocean Alexander Europa with a single 360hrs Perkins 225 HP engine installed factory new in 2011.
The mechanical and hull surveys declared the boat in good condition. All decks except cockpit and covered side decks were redone and teak removed.
So, looking forward to boating not fixing.

I pick the boat next week.
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Old 03-13-2016, 10:32 AM   #12
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Congratulations!!!! Looks like a fine vessel!!!!
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B
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Old 03-13-2016, 10:38 AM   #13
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Nice looking boat, I like the hull, congratulations !
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Old 03-13-2016, 10:39 AM   #14
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Congratulations! We were very interested in the 42' OA Europa. They are very nice boats if in good condition.

Walking away from that other boat was the correct decision.

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Old 03-13-2016, 10:55 AM   #15
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Looks nice from here!



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