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Old 08-22-2014, 02:03 PM   #41
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This is pleasure boating and there's no need to get to most any given place. Just go to a place closer if you lack the speed. The idea is to have fun ......... not to get to any given place.
The last time I looked up "pleasure" the definition did not exclude going fast. Some people, including me, enjoy going fast on the water regardless of the size of the boat. It's still "recreational boating" and it's still "fun." We like going long distances fast. Where is it written that the idea of fun boating is "not to get to any given place?"

Speed, at least to a degree, is something I want in my boating. Which is why we are going from an 8 knot boat to a 25 knot boat.

You can live by whatever set of guidelines you want in terms of your definition of fun, recreational boating. But don't go defining or condemning my or anyone else's definition of fun, recreational boating. We will define that for ourselves.
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:22 PM   #42
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OK Marin OK,
I'm just say'in it works if you want it to.

And you proved my earlier point by basically say'in speed is something you want and not something you need. And did you read what I really want is a 12 knot boat? I can have that in a twenty footer ... but not a 30'.

Yea speed is great but on the water it's usually a rough ride.

TAD,
"At any given speed" ..... One could actually compare efficiency if the speed/length ratio was used. For newbies that's a percentage of the hull speed that is dependent on the water line length. Compare a 50' at 12 knots to a 25' at 6 knots. But one could'nt compare efficiency of my 30' boat to a 50' boat at 12 knots. The problem I have w length now TAD is moorage!
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:29 PM   #43
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Tom:
You don't drive your carat 100 mph all the time do you? Likewise with boat speed. Use it if you want . Amazing to see people defend small engines by admitting they can't control themselves.
Cars go up hills otherwise they'd only need 10 or 20hp.
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:34 PM   #44
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I don't want anyone telling me how to have fun.

The tricky part comes when your fun frightens or disrupts someone else having fun. Like the kids on jet-skis who who love to do tight doughnuts around small becalmed sailboats, or those that run their generator most of the night in a quiet anchorage. Does that extend to social responsibility? Do we have a responsibility not to burn up all our grand-children's fuel oil?

Back to the topic...

A full displacement Krogen 42 will burn about 2.5 gph at 8 knots. A semi-displacement Atlantic 44 will burn 5 gph at 7.5 knots and 6.5 gph at 9 knots. Though their weights are probably close, the Atlantic has about 3 times the installed HP of the Krogen and (at a guess) about twice the accommodation space. It's difficult to compare apples and oranges.

The old Grand Banks 50 (full displacement) burned 7.3 gph at 8.1 knots, with the same 210 HP Cats as the Atlantic 44 above. And a Midnight Lace 44 burns 4.5 gph at 10 knots, it also has the smallest interor of the four boats.
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:34 PM   #45
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There isn't one if that's all the faster you can go.
It's quite obvious that Mark could buy and operate any number of boats that go much faster than 6 knots.

TAD well said.
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:35 PM   #46
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And you proved my earlier point by basically say'in speed is something you want and not something you need.
No, speed is also something we need. Given my work and travel schedule, which will continue for another few years, we don't have a lot of time for cruising. But we have lots of places we like to go, particularly in BC. In our current boat, it takes us three days if the weather cooperates to get to Desolation Sound. In the boat that will be replacing our current boat, we'll be able to get there in less than a day, weather permitting.

This makes much better use of our time, and incidentally is why manufactures like Grand Banks began putting bigger and bigger engines into their boats, which have semi-planing hulls. More and more buyers, with busy work schedules and limited vacation time, wanted to get somewhere fairly fast, and then spend their vacation leisurely cruising the area, and then get home fairly fast. That's what a big chunk of Grand Banks' market wants and can afford, so that's what they gave them.

The fact that you may not want to cruise this way is, to the people who do, irrelevant.
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:52 PM   #47
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Do I want to do a two-day round trip to Sausalito or do it in one day? Do I want a four-day round trip to Sacramento or do it in two days? If the main reason was to do something at those destinations, I could drive the car to them within an hour. If the voyage itself was important, a slow boat works for me, especially being retired.

Speed is a matter of perception. Six knots in the Coot seems like 21 knots in a cruise ship.

One thing I dislike of high-speed train travel: one can't appreciate the sights.
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:22 PM   #48
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As a sea kayaker, it still makes me giggle to rip along at 7 knots

Someone once asked what the most important technique or piece of equipment was needed for a long sea kayak expedition. My answer was, "Knowing when to get to shore, or when to stay on shore".

Point being, you don't need speed if you don't put yourself in a position where it's needed to get your ass out of a dangerous situation. Sometimes it's better to let it go and try another day, like Eric did.
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:30 PM   #49
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Thinking other people should live their lives like you is a very dangerous concept to what most people here I bet value in boating to begin with.
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:33 PM   #50
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Thinking other people should live their lives like you is a very dangerous concept to what most people here I bet value in boating to begin with.
What you smokin' there, Bozo?
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:43 PM   #51
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One thing I dislike of high-speed train travel: one can't appreciate the sights.
When we are running at 25-30 knots in the small boat we see everything we see in the big boat at 8 knots. Eagles in the trees, whales, porpoises, a funky float house tucked in along the shore, you name it. And if we see something we want to watch or explore, guess what? The throttle moves backwards, too!

The difference is, when we want to simply get somewhere, the throttle moves way forward.

I like having options. In our replacement boat we'll be able to loaf along all day on one engine at 8 or 6 or whatever knots if the mood strikes. But when we want to get somewhere, we can go 25 knots on all the engines.

On our current cruiser, we're limited to just one speed-- slow. Sometimes that's fine. But other times, like this weekend when we're joining friends out in the islands but I only have three days and we would like to maximize our time with them, 8 knots is very limiting. Or when the area we want to cruise and explore is a couple hundred miles away and we only have two or three weeks to do it, we don't want to spend half that time plodding through waters we already know like the backs of our hands.

We want the option to do what we need to do, and a slow boat doesn't provide them.
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:01 PM   #52
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Thanks for the education guys. It seems to boil down to getting a boat that fits YOUR type of boating. For me the speed is not what is important it is the operation of the boat. I love to navigate and drive and all the other things involved with moving through the water at whatever speed. If I am on the hook or tied to a pier I am board and can't wait to be moving again. But that is just me. As someone else here said YMMV.
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:19 PM   #53
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...
The difference is, when we want to simply get somewhere, the throttle moves way forward.
... we can go 25 knots on all the engines.
...
Watch out for stuff in the water!


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Old 08-22-2014, 06:21 PM   #54
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I would say it DOES somewhat fit your budget. For the last several ears and next several...the fuel tab and "calander tab" for me are in conflict.

I wish I had more time down south to tool around and the Bahamas so a faster boat and a bigger fuel budget would have been nice...but not in the budget and eventually the calendar issues will become less important so the 6.3 knot and possibly 6 knot speed towing a big dingy will be more OK.

Operation is operation, 5, 10, 35 knots...sure it's fun at any speed versus sitting in nowhere'sville, but after droning around a 6 knots when you want to get places for all kinds of reasons....even 8 knots is 33.33% faster.
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:24 PM   #55
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I sometimes push the Coot to 7.3 knots (top speed), especially when going against a strong current, doubling the fuel consumption rate.
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:51 PM   #56
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Boy Mark, I bet the wind really does a number on your hairdo at that speed
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Old 08-22-2014, 07:27 PM   #57
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Watch out for stuff in the water!
Absolutely correct on that, Mark, no question. On the other hand, hitting a deadhead at 8 knots has the potential to ruin your day every bit as much as hitting it at 25 knots (unless you've got a steel hull on your 8 knot boat)

We've been running our small boat for 27 years so far in these waters at 25-30 mph (not knots as I wrote previously), so we have both gotten real good at spotting stuff in the water out ahead of us.
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Old 08-22-2014, 07:30 PM   #58
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Boy Mark, I bet the wind really does a number on your hairdo at that speed
Winds are frequently strong in the SF estuary. Perla often complains of the state of my hair, but I respond "that's what sailors look like."
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Old 08-22-2014, 07:38 PM   #59
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Winds are frequently strong in the SF estuary. Perla often complains of the state of my hair, but I respond "that's what sailors look like."

Aptly named as that fine lady is a gem.
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Old 08-23-2014, 11:15 AM   #60
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.......... even planning hulls with big engines get very good fuel economy numbers when going slow enough...
Yes, most do but the boat is more costly to buy and in many cases has less interior room. Also, some planing hulls do not handle well at slow speed. They tend to wander.

In the end, like everything in life, you pays your money and you takes your choice. My boat is described as "semi planing". Well, it will go nearly twice hull speed but it takes far more fuel to do so it so I'll only ramp it up when absolutely necessary. To catch a bridge opening without waiting another hour comes to mind.
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