Planes, Trains & Automobiles Thread Split

[Art]

I was told by one of the brokers at dealership that the stabilizers had to be on at all times when the boat was underway.

The way-heavy flying bridge house was not Grand Bank's idea. The buyer of hull #1 insisted on it, and the buyers of hulls 2 and 3 liked it so much they wanted it too. You would have thought Grand Banks would have known better, but apparently they didn't.

Only the three were made. One of them, on a GB-sponsored cruise to Alaska, tore one of the stabilizers off on a rock north of Prince Rupert and nearly sank. I saw this one in the Seaview North yard being repaired after it had limped back to Bellingham.

As you know better than most Marin... even top performing companies such as Boeing and GB can at times put out a real turd! I.e., Ford's Edsel

 

[Marin]

So far as I know, the Edsel was a good car from a mechanical aspect. No different than the other Ford cars of the time. But it had a horrible image, partly because of it's dorky name and largely because of its somwwhat unconventional styling. In an era where every car model looked very different than every other car model (as opposed to today when everything looks like a Honda), external styling made a huge difference. And the Edsel was just too "weird." I was a little kid when the Edsel came out and I remember thinking, just like everyone else, what an ugly car. I see one today and it's actually rather nice because it is different. I like the front end treatment.

BTW, I'm writing this as I sit in a Ford dealership waiting for my pickup to come out of a routine service. There is a 2015 Mustang on the floor here, and as far as I'm concerned, it's the first time in decades I've seen an American car with good styling. The only other time was the Studebaker Golden Hawk. A cell phone photo of the Mustang sitting next to me is below. I find all American cars to be supremely ugly and always have, even as a kid. The new Mustang is the second exception (probably because the designer "borrowed" some styling elements form Aston Martin, which until recently was owned by Ford (Ford still has a minor interest in it.)

The only turd I'm aware that Boeing has ever made was an Army ground attack plane we built in (I think) the 1920s. It was an armored biplane with a big gun on it, and besides being staggering ugly, it could barely get out of its own way it was so heavy. A total flop. We built two of them. They were conceived and designed by the US Army; Boeing simply built them (we needed the money back then). I tried to find a photo on the web but had no success. But it was an absolutley horrible airplane.

 

[BandB]

From Studebaker until 2015? That is one long dry spell.

 

[Marin]

From Studebaker until 2015? That is one long dry spell.

Yes it was. American cars basically suck in terms of aesthetics as far as I'm concerned. Bloated, square, and boring. Even the Corvette looks like a Tonka toy of a car.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Marin have you ever done bias?

Seems to me you'd pick on it handily.

PS I like most Buicks.

 

[Marin]

Marin have you ever done bias?
.

You'll have to explain your question.

PS- I just sat in the 2015 Mustang at the dealer. The interior is every bit as well designed as the exterior. Six speed manual, 5.0 litre V-8 (same engine core as in my pickup), big touch screen to control the car's functions, very, very well done. If we were in the market for a new car that wasn't an Aston Martin, this would be the one.

 

[ranger58sb]

There is a 2015 Mustang on the floor here, and as far as I'm concerned, it's the first time in decades I've seen an American car with good styling.

From that angle, looks to me pretty much like a Honda, Lexus, Nissan, Hyundai, Infiniti, Audi, Chevy, Kia, Mercedes, Chrysler, BMW... etc.... of the same general class...

Boring.

Used to be one could tell the brand without having to look at the badge. Nowadays, the grill work might give it away, but otherwise the lines for 90-95% of the offerings all seem to look pretty much the same, to me.

-Chris

 

[Conrad]

Actually it does look vaguely like my boring Honda.

 

[BlueYonder]

The only turd I'm aware that Boeing has ever made was an Army ground attack plane we built in (I think) the 1920s. It was an armored biplane with a big gun on it, and besides being staggering ugly, it could barely get out of its own way it was so heavy. A total flop. We built two of them. They were conceived and designed by the US Army; Boeing simply built them (we needed the money back then). I tried to find a photo on the web but had no success. But it was an absolutley horrible airplane.

Search google for the Boeing GA-2. It is pretty hideous. I think the best looking aircraft by Boeing was the B-47. I fly the 737 for a living, it's not awful to look at, but I've always been partial to the 777

 

[Marin]

No, in person it doesn't look anything like a Honda, which truly does have boring styling. Normally I pay zero attention to the cars on the road these days other than not to hit them. The lines of 90 percent of what's on the road today are totally uninspired. I understand the reason for this and from the car companies' perspective it makes total sense.

The current model cars that are not uncommon where I live that immediately stand out to me even at a distance are Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Aston Martins, and Teslas. Everything else is a non entity. BMWS look like Toyotas look like Hondas look like Kias and so on. That's why I was so surprised that I was so impressed by the new Mustang. It's not that it's a radical new design. It's not. But whether on purpose or by accident, the designer got all the lines right (by my standards). It looks more like an Aston Martin in its roof line, for example, and this and other details immediately set it apart from all the giant yawns that are most of the other cars in this country.

Part of the problem with my photo is that it's a black car. So lines and angles that are obvious to the eye when standing by the car are totally lost in the photo. But the car grabbed my eye the moment I walked into the dealership. In fact, I thought for a moment they had an Aston Martin on the floor.

So kudos to whoever drew the lines. In my opinion, he or she has an exceptional feel for aesthetics. Too bad the Hondas and GMs and BMWs of the world don't have designers like this.

 

[Marin]

Search google for the Boeing GA-2. It is pretty hideous. I think the best looking aircraft by Boeing was the B-47. I fly the 737 for a living, it's not awful to look at, but I've always been partial to the 777

Yes, that's it. Actually that is the most flattering photo of it I've ever seen.

The 737-800 with winglets is a very nice-looking plane, in my opinion. And the Sky Interior has totally transformed the cabin. After 36 years with Boeing it takes a lot to impress me these days. The Sky Interior is one thing that does from a passenger perspective (I know there are aspects of it that cabin crews don't like).

The 777 is the best program in Boeing's commercial airplane history to date. The program was extremely well run thanks to Alan Mulally, and the plane reflects this. I supported the program n the work that I do and got to know the people and the plane extremely well. It's the poster boy for how to run an incredibly complex project the right way.

 

[Insequent]

I wondered whether there was any input to the Mustang from this part of the world. Apparently not. Both Ford and GM are closing their Australian manufacturing soon and both companies gave some of their soon to to be out of work designers a chance to do something for you guys in NA. Seems they had a bit of success.
Australian designers claim top two awards at 2015 Detroit motor show

The Buick design does nothing for me, it looks kinda like yet another Jaguar fail. The Ford GT might be OK. The real question is in the detail and build quality, both of which have some way to go from the old Ford GT.

 

[markpierce]

I find the GA-2 cute.


Last year bought a 2014 Ford Edge. Looks almost like every manufacturer's recent-model, mid-sized black SUV, but that doesn't bother me. Just have to take care to avoid attempting to enter someone else's.

 

[BandB]

I find the GA-2 cute.


Last year bought a 2014 Ford Edge. Looks almost like every manufacturer's recent-model, mid-sized black SUV, but that doesn't bother me. Just have to take care to avoid attempting to enter someone else's.

It does make parking lots interesting, especially if you have a black car. SUV's once stood out but no more.

 

[Marin]

The Buick design does nothing for me, it looks kinda like yet another Jaguar fail. The Ford GT might be OK. The real question is in the detail and build quality, both of which have some way to go from the old Ford GT.

To me, the Buick is just another American yawn with four wheels. The Ford GT, which looks nothing like the original Ford GT which was a pretty cool looking racing seems to be primarily a combination of a bunch of lines and design items long since used by Ferrari and Lamborghini. But Ford does get credit here for at least not photocopying yet another Honda.

 

[CPseudonym]

I was thinking about re naming this thread but couldn't come up with a title to describe the content. Can someone offer up some new title suggestions please?

 

[Conrad]

No, in person it doesn't look anything like a Honda, which truly does have boring styling. .

Not that I'm particularly defending my Honda, but when I saw your first profile shot of the Mustang I thought it was a Honda Coupe like mine. Wish I had a side photo to compare.

 

[BandB]

I was thinking about re naming this thread but couldn't come up with a title to describe the content. Can someone offer up some new title suggestions please?

Wifey B: Trains and Boats and Planes....don't you just hear the music playing. Oops, no trains. I've never ridden a train. Subway is all. Insert cars in lieu of trains.

 

[markpierce]

I like trains too.


Looking backward while heading for the south edge of the Grand Canyon from the observation car:

Grand Canyon Route advertised in Martinez, California (the BNSF replaced this AT+SF steel girder bridge with one of concrete a couple years ago):

 

[keb]

I was thinking about re naming this thread but couldn't come up with a title to describe the content. Can someone offer up some new title suggestions please?

How about "Car Talk .... yawn"

 

[Insequent]

Wifey B: Trains and Boats and Planes....don't you just hear the music playing. Oops, no trains. I've never ridden a train. Subway is all. Insert cars in lieu of trains.

Well for your first proper ride do it right. TGV in France, or ICE in Germany or Bullet train in Japan. Favorite way of getting from A to B quickly. Trains are great, and the fast ones are fabulous.

Passenger planes should never have been invented. The whole experience from leaving home to arriving at your hotel sucks these days.

I'm ambivalent about cars as a means of travel as well. Their most redeeming feature is what they replaced. Planes replaced boats - damn them all!

 

[Marin]

Mark said.....I like trains too.

So do I.

I've ridden TGVs in France, ICE trains in Germany, and the super-fast train in China whatever it's called. \My first long distance train ride was on the California Zephyr when I was a little kid and the train still had stewardesses (called Zephyrettes). Rode it with my mom from Oakland to Chicago and then at the end of the summer rode it by myself back to Oakland and then got a plane back to Hawaii

I've driven a train (sort of, see photo), and ridden in the locomotive cab across half of Canada on the now-defunct Canadian Pacific train from Toronto to Vancouver. I like trains a lot.

But..... when I'm in a hurry, as I often am, trains suck, particularly across long distances. They're like cruising in an 8 knot boat. I'll take a plane over a train, no matter how fast the train might be.

We do use something we learned from a train on our boat, however. I don't know if this is still the case, but the trans-Australian passenger train traverses the longest stretch of straight track in the world. Not only that, this stretch goes through some of the most desolate country in the world. To ensure that the driver doesn't fall asleep at the throttle, there is a timer in the cab that has to be manually reset every five or ten minutes (can't remember which). If it isn't reset, when it runs down it pulls off the power and applies the train brakes.

This seemed like a smart idea when we first saw it, so we adapted it to our boat. We use a simple oven timer set to five minutes. When it beeps, whoevfer's driving scans the engine instruments and then taps the button on the timer to restart it. Both my wife's and my flying experience has ingrained instrument scans into us pretty well, but on the water in a painfully slow boat it's easy to get distracted by something, like a whale or whatnot. The timer reminds us to not forget about checking the instruments.

 

[Art]

It's classic muscle cars for me! 1970 and older to about 1949. They may not be right and they may not be wrong and they may not be the highest tech (unless ya spend 150K on full customization) but they be cool! I have preferences on makes, models etc.

 

[O C Diver]

Passenger planes should never have been invented. The whole experience from leaving home to arriving at your hotel sucks these days.

Agreed. Commercial airplanes are nothing but metro busses with wings. There is something about being stuck with hundreds of people you don't know in an aluminum sardine can for hours. Flying commercial is like a colonoscopy, unfortunately a periodic necessity.

Ted

 

[Marin]

Flying commercial is like a colonoscopy, unfortunately a periodic necessity.

Ted

Depends on where you're riding in the airplane. Fortunately, we always ride up front. Company rule.

 

[Insequent]

Depends on where you're riding in the airplane. Fortunately, we always ride up front. Company rule.

Been there done that, and although it helps the 24 hour haul from here to London still sucks, even up front.

I remember talking to the company Chairman a number of years ago and he described his early London to Australia flights. It was in a flying boat, and they landed each day to stay in a hotel overnight before continuing the trip the following day. Seating was in decent lounge chairs as well. Its just gone downhill since then.

 

[O C Diver]

Depends on where you're riding in the airplane. Fortunately, we always ride up front. Company rule.

No it doesn't. Aren't you the guy who can't stand to be cruising within 10 miles of another boat.

Ted

 

[Marin]

Yeah, the trans-oceanic flying boat days must have been great (as long as you didn't know there was a much faster means of getting there just around the corner). Boeing built twelve Model 314s, the so-called Clipper. Half went to Pan Am, the other half went to BOAC. Unfortunately, none of them have survived. The last one was being used as a charter (?) plane in the Carribean in the 1950s (I think). One day it made a forced landing at sea due to some sort of fairly minor engine problem. The USCG came along and took off all the passengers and crew (and put a big dent in the nose in the process) and then sank the plane with gunfire as a hazard to navigation.

We have a color film in our library of a typical flight in the Clipper during its heyday. The film shows the passengers boarding from a launch, the flight deck and the crew going about their duties, the passengers during the day enjoying the scenery and meals, then the berths being made up and the passengers going to bed for the night. Nice way to travel.

You can have something of the same experience on Emirates in their first-class roomettes. Fully enclosed compartment, full size bed, bar that comes up out of the counter at the push of a button, huge video screen, meals prepared to order. and so on. Ticket price one way from Seattle to Dubai is, as I recall, somewhere north of $10,000.

The Boeing Clipper fare was probably similar in 1930s dollars. Maybe even more.

 

[Marin]

No it doesn't. Aren't you the guy who can't stand to be cruising within 10 miles of another boat.

Ted

I don't mind being in an airplane with a bunch of other people. It's only for a few hours and it beats every other means of getting from Point A to Point B when the only objective is to get from Point A to Point B.

When we go from Seattle to Dubai, that's a 16+ hour flight on an Emirates 777-300ER. And it's great. Nice, lie-flat bed, something like a thousand on-demand movies, documentaries, and TV shows to choose from, great food and fabulous flight attendants.

This is way, WAY better than having to transfer flights at some God-awful airport like Atlanta and spend nearly two days getting to the same place, with a good chunk of that time spent in a noisy, crowded airport dealing with neanderthal security people.

I am a total believer in the Boeing air travel philosophy: I want to fly from where I'm at to where I want to be. None of this hub-and-spoke crap. Our planes are all designed to do this. Unfortunately, the ATC system is wandering about somewhere between the opening of the first transcontinental railroad and the launch of the Titanic. Between the outdated equipment, and worse, the inability of countries to cooperate (particularly in Europe), our (and Airbus') planes, which can go anywhere anyone wants them to go, are stuck in an antiquated ATC system.

In the boat, yes, you're correct. One other boat in sight is one too many. But that's a whole different deal that getting about hassle free in as short a time as possible on the planet.

 

[markpierce]

Hate flying. Security hassles/denigration. Cramped space. Minimal service. Costs two or more times than a seven-to-ten-day-or-more voyage in a cruise ship. Wish I could afford going first class rather than third-class.