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Old 01-27-2015, 11:55 PM   #41
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Well, to each their own. I find the notion of being on a ship with 3,000 of your closest friiends to be an absolutely hideous concept.

Now I understand the little pocket cruise boats that operate in SE Alaksa during the summer can be quite nice, particularly the ones which have a naturalist/wildlife expert on board.

And from my music composer who for years now has done trade-off composiing for Viking River Cruises so has taken a bunch of their river trips in Europe, these get-off-where-you-want-rejoin-the-boat-later cruises are pretty cool and go to some fascinating places.

But the big cruise ships? Besides the fact they have become giant disease factories, to say nothing of catching on fire or running onto rocks or losing power and drifting for days (while on fire), I simply cannot fathom being on one of the bloody things. It would bve like being sentenced to a week in a crowded, inescapable shopping mall without the stores.
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Old 01-28-2015, 12:04 AM   #42
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It was always my employer's policy even for entry level employees that any trips 6 hours or more were first class. And as to Marin's non stop, from South Florida to the west coast, that option isn't available.
.
Boeing's current policy is all international travel is business. Domestic travel (Mexico/US/Canada) is coach. But.... most Boeing people who travel travel a lot, even if it's only domestic. And fortunately, almost everywhere we need to go is served by Alaska Airlines or a code-share partner of Alaska's. Which means we all have a bazillion miles on Alaska which means we all have VIP cards with so many miles attached to them that we can bump up to first (which in the US is the equivelent of an international carrier's coach-plus but at least has a larger seat and better seat pitch) at no charge.

I'm surprised no carrier offers a non-stop between Florida and the west coast. I'd have thought Southwest would do it, maybe Alaska, or possibly USAir.
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Old 01-28-2015, 12:16 AM   #43
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It would bve like being sentenced to a week in a crowded, inescapable shopping mall without the stores.
Wifey B: I heard shopping mall but then you took the stores away....how dare you?
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Old 01-28-2015, 12:17 AM   #44
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But the big cruise ships? Besides the fact they have become giant disease factories, to say nothing of catching on fire or running onto rocks or losing power and drifting for days (while on fire), I simply cannot fathom being on one of the bloody things. It would bve like being sentenced to a week in a crowded, inescapable shopping mall without the stores.
Confinement on an airplane is much worse. Compare the available cubic space between a passenger on a ship versus one on an airplane. Even in a small ship's cabin, airlines could readily fit 30 passengers, and public spaces on ships aren't limited to toilets. (Reminding me that one has a private toilet on a ship while airplanes require one to share a toilet with scores of others.) There is no comparison. Even with a collision and weather events (as in hurricanes with minor effect), the first having probably been fatal on an airplane, I've not feared for my safety and health. ... Enjoy your single-engined airplane adventures over wilderness!
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Old 01-28-2015, 12:50 AM   #45
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Marin, I'm with you on cruise ships but I also am quick to admit that we're in the great minority and many love them as Mark does and many others dream of cruises.

But then you do like cold and bears over warm and bikinis.

Isn't it great there are choices for all of us.
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Old 01-28-2015, 01:04 AM   #46
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I've not feared for my safety and health. ... Enjoy your single-engined airplane adventures over wilderness!
Well, I don't see much point in being safe if it means being incredibly bored, but that's just me.

To drag this kicking and screaming back to the orignal topic, it's obvious there is a big place for semi-planing and planing boats. A lotta, lotta people have time constraints but still want to be able to cruise to areas they are really interested in. Or really like being. For these folks, the "fast cruiser" is the answer. And this is obviously a huge segment of the boating population because most cruisers fall into this category, from Grand Banks at the lower end of the range to Eastbays and Sabres at the upper end.

And I susepct, that as the GenX and Millennials get into boating, this desire for speed will be even more prevelant. These are people who are used to things happening right now, like ordering their new iPhone on their old iPhone. We have a number of folks from these two groups in our department now, and I don't see any of them strolling off in the sunset or going somewhere they want to go at 8 knots, let alone 6. They want things to happen NOW. And based on reflecting on my own character, how one is at 25 is likely to be how one is at 85.

A girl (sorry, woman) I worked with in television in Hawaii gave me a great line awhile back in an e-mail when we were discussing somebody we'd both worked with and I wondered if this person had changed much since I'd worked with him. She wrote, "Oh Marin, you know people never change. They just get more of the same."

It's become one of my favorite sayings (along with "crickets") and I think she's absolutely right on the money. So the Millenials will be zooming and booming around in their planing boats into old age, I suspect, assuming they get interested in boating at all.

There is a type of boater, or person if you like, who likes to go new places and take their time and go slow and really observe what's around him or her, but likes to go really fast in between those places. I am one of these people, which is why a slow boat like our GB simply doesn't cut it. If we had the same boat with a couple of 300+ hp engines in it, it might work as we could then take advanatage of the GB hull's ability to go pretty fast. But even then, I'm not sure it would be fast enough.

To me (and my wife) the right speed to be going somewhere we want to get to in a boat is about 30 knots. But.... once we're there, 8 knots is just fine. Even slower sometimes. Even stopped on occasion. Then when we're ready to move on, 30 knots again.

It's why I have no interst in creeping across an ocean in a boat (or ship, which I've done once). I grew up on an ocean, I know what they're like, and I think they're boring out in the middle unless they're mad at you in which case they're scary. Boring and scary are not choices I'm interested in, hence my belief that the only smart way to cross an ocean is in a airplane with a seven at the front and back.

So to me, the perfect cruising boat is one that will comfortably do 30 knots all day without over-taxing the enlnes, but can also bumble along at 6 or 8 knots when we're someplace really coo that we want to spend time exploring. And do this bumbling along without mucking up the engines.

I think that's the kind of boat that the Millenials will be interested in, too.

PS-- And yes, Mark, we definitely do enjoy flying into the back country and camping and fishing and wathing the animals watch us. At 110 mph. (Actually, we wish the damn plane went faster. Time for a turbine, perhaps......?).
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Old 01-28-2015, 02:37 AM   #47
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I'm surprised no carrier offers a non-stop between Florida and the west coast. I'd have thought Southwest would do it, maybe Alaska, or possibly USAir.

Alaska flies nonstop from Seattle to Orlando, Tampa, and Fort Lauderdale.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:17 AM   #48
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This turned into an airplane/car thread at post number 90. Perhaps the moderators could split off the non-boat stuff and put in the OTDE section???
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Old 01-28-2015, 08:25 AM   #49
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To drag this kicking and screaming back to the orignal topic, it's obvious there is a big place for semi-planing and planing boats. A lotta, lotta people have time constraints but still want to be able to cruise to areas they are really interested in. Or really like being. For these folks, the "fast cruiser" is the answer. And this is obviously a huge segment of the boating population because most cruisers fall into this category, from Grand Banks at the lower end of the range to Eastbays and Sabres at the upper end.

And I susepct, that as the GenX and Millennials get into boating, this desire for speed will be even more prevelant. These are people who are used to things happening right now, like ordering their new iPhone on their old iPhone. We have a number of folks from these two groups in our department now, and I don't see any of them strolling off in the sunset or going somewhere they want to go at 8 knots, let alone 6. They want things to happen NOW. And based on reflecting on my own character, how one is at 25 is likely to be how one is at 85.

A girl (sorry, woman) I worked with in television in Hawaii gave me a great line awhile back in an e-mail when we were discussing somebody we'd both worked with and I wondered if this person had changed much since I'd worked with him. She wrote, "Oh Marin, you know people never change. They just get more of the same."

It's become one of my favorite sayings (along with "crickets") and I think she's absolutely right on the money. So the Millenials will be zooming and booming around in their planing boats into old age, I suspect, assuming they get interested in boating at all.
Think your analysis is off on several points. First the Millenials aren't going to own boats as it requires to much of a time commitment to something they will use infrequently. Secondly their not going any great distance such as exploring the wilds of Alaska as their are no Starbucks and no cell towers to send texts through. Third their not antisocial (like you ) so their not going anywhere where there friends can't see how great a time their having. As far as boating goes, I think it will continue to decline, significantly above 25'. One of the few things that we all seem to share in common on this forum is a commitment of time to maintaining our boats. Can you really see a millenial taking a day out of their oh so busy life to work on their boat, really. Finally, as time obsessed as you are, there is no amount of speed that will get them there fast enough, so they won't go. The future of boating for Millenials is small cruise ships where they can be pampered, have a cell a satellite tv connection, and bring their social group with them. Those few who truly want to get away, will rent because of the limited time their willing to commit.

Boating above 25' is going to continue to decline. As a result the boats above 25' will become more expensive due to lower volumes. The good news for our generation is that the days of not being able to find a slip for our mid size and larger boats is over, probably forever.

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Old 01-28-2015, 09:22 AM   #50
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Think your analysis is off on several points. First the Millenials aren't going to own boats as it requires to much of a time commitment to something they will use infrequently. Secondly their not going any great distance such as exploring the wilds of Alaska as their are no Starbucks and no cell towers to send texts through. Third their not antisocial (like you ) so their not going anywhere where there friends can't see how great a time their having. As far as boating goes, I think it will continue to decline, significantly above 25'. One of the few things that we all seem to share in common on this forum is a commitment of time to maintaining our boats. Can you really see a millenial taking a day out of their oh so busy life to work on their boat, really. Finally, as time obsessed as you are, there is no amount of speed that will get them there fast enough, so they won't go. The future of boating for Millenials is small cruise ships where they can be pampered, have a cell a satellite tv connection, and bring their social group with them. Those few who truly want to get away, will rent because of the limited time their willing to commit.

Boating above 25' is going to continue to decline. As a result the boats above 25' will become more expensive due to lower volumes. The good news for our generation is that the days of not being able to find a slip for our mid size and larger boats is over, probably forever.

Ted
Ted - Now wait just a minute!! I take exception to what you intimate!

Are you trying to tell me that the "now generation" is not going to be just like us???

Such as:

- Hypnotized ranks of advertisement glutted youngsters who camp out for in tents while it rains just to be first in to get some advertised new product that will be obsolete in days/weeks.
- Relatively young persons who have their nose against small screen iPhone to send/receive hundreds of virtually meaningless three word texts each and every day.
- Young drivers who when constantly using their communication devices are more dangerous behind the wheel than a full-on-drunk.
- Idiots who walk across streets texting and don’t even look to see if a vehicle is approaching.
- Jerks who get kicked out of my business meetings because they think their little electronic device for calls/text is more important than the meeting’s topic.
- Home owners who trash their one year old 60” TV to get the new/improved 72” curved TV that will soon be superseded by the next “improved” model.
- And On And On and On…

Again, I ask: Are you trying to tell me that the "now generation" is not going to be just like us???

Every aging population/generation runs into the same problem… our kids simply refuse to be just like us… We refused to be just like out parents too. With each generation some changes are for the good, some for the bad. Only thing that’s constant is change! Personally, I’m very glad I was born into the generation I exist in. Still able to free-think and completely against being hypnotized. OMG – what’s the world commen too??? The future baby… it’s inexorably moving into The Future!
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:46 AM   #51
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Boating above 25' is going to continue to decline. As a result the boats above 25' will become more expensive due to lower volumes. The good news for our generation is that the days of not being able to find a slip for our mid size and larger boats is over, probably forever.

Ted
That theory falls apart for a couple of reasons. First, it assumes boating above 25' is declining. It's not. It has been increasing the last three years. The industry is looking the best it has since the recession.

Second, prices are increasing in general and barring another collapse will continue to do so as raw materials and labor costs increase.

Third, the days of not being able to find a slip for larger boats may be over, but actually the trend is toward converting smaller slips to larger and building more slips. Right now in South Florida we're seeing several major marina renovations. Gradually, slips are filling again.

Sorry but the gloom and doom for the industry just isn't reflected in any of the actual numbers right now.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:52 AM   #52
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Depends on where you're riding in the airplane. Fortunately, we always ride up front. Company rule.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:33 AM   #53
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BandB,
You forgot the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. New boats above 30' are the stuff of the upper middle class and the rich. They should flourish until the economy has real problems.

Marin,
I ride in the back. Safer. Don't consider going 500mph very safe and save the "safest way to travel" stuff.
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Old 01-28-2015, 10:56 AM   #54
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BandB,
New boats above 30' are the stuff of the upper middle class and the rich.
They always have been.

I think one thing we all overlook is that being boat owners of any type, new or old, small or large, we are among the fortunate few. Sometimes we get lost in our world. Seems like all my neighbors own boats....ah, could it be because I live on the water in Fort Lauderdale? The very thought of owning a boat is elusive to the majority of people in the world. Most are not debating whether they want displacement or semi-displacement.
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Old 01-28-2015, 11:18 AM   #55
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They always have been.

I think one thing we all overlook is that being boat owners of any type, new or old, small or large, we are among the fortunate few. Sometimes we get lost in our world. Seems like all my neighbors own boats....ah, could it be because I live on the water in Fort Lauderdale? The very thought of owning a boat is elusive to the majority of people in the world. Most are not debating whether they want displacement or semi-displacement.
So True! We avid-boaters are all very fortunate.

When we mention our little 34' Tolly or show a picture of her to "Non Boaters" (i.e. those in the other 99.99% of the world)... they think we've got a yacht! Little do they know...

Also, I've found that upon inviting professional-landlubbers to come out and enjoy... large % are scared. Too many say they get sea sick (may be a way of not mentioning fear), and more than I would have believed can't swim!

We really are in a darn exclusive sector of society (a limited number international "boat-club"!).

Boating is a tough job - But - Somebody's got to do it. OK, I'll rough it along with you!

If you think about the even smaller fraction of "avid" boat-users, as compared to the already small fraction of boat owners that include dock-queen/never-use boat owners, the number becomes miniscule. With TF being global in reach... how many of us actually contribute on repeat basis - fifty to one hundred +/-?? Now that is EXCLUSIVE!

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Old 01-28-2015, 11:53 AM   #56
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It's classic muscle cars for me! 1970 and older to about 1949. They may not be right and they may not be wrong and they may not be the highest tech (unless ya spend 150K on full customization) but they be cool! I have preferences on makes, models etc.
Back to Car Talk (wasn't that the subject?)

Shortly after graduating from Michigan State in 1968 I pulled into a Sunoco station and picked up another "Sunny Dollar" (their contest at the time). Unbelievable - an Instant Winner of a Camaro!!!

Here's the ride I wound up with (this same electric blue color): 2700 lb and a 375 hp 396. The weight was almost 1/3 engine. Not quite a Cobra, but hitting fourth gear at 105 mph it would lay 50 feet of rubber with both wheels. After I removed the ridiculous "smog pump" and re-mounted the big Holley atop an Edelbrock manifold, it was even quicker. Burned up a lot of rubber and Sunoco 260, but it sure was fun, especially going light to light on Detroit's Woodward Avenue on Friday or Saturday night. Won a few bets, but not enough to keep up with operating expenses. Taught me a thing or two about wrenching though.

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Old 01-28-2015, 11:59 AM   #57
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Hi Richard,
It's amazing how light that car was/is.
My 2014 Jetta weighs more.
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Old 01-28-2015, 12:16 PM   #58
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That theory falls apart for a couple of reasons. First, it assumes boating above 25' is declining. It's not. It has been increasing the last three years. The industry is looking the best it has since the recession.

Second, prices are increasing in general and barring another collapse will continue to do so as raw materials and labor costs increase.

Third, the days of not being able to find a slip for larger boats may be over, but actually the trend is toward converting smaller slips to larger and building more slips. Right now in South Florida we're seeing several major marina renovations. Gradually, slips are filling again.

Sorry but the gloom and doom for the industry just isn't reflected in any of the actual numbers right now.
Don't confuse your small affluent section with the country as a whole. An increase for three years from near zero means next to nothing for boat manufacturers. When you consider the manufacturers that have gone out of business, are new cruising boat sales even 25% of what they were 10 years ago?

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Old 01-28-2015, 12:59 PM   #59
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Back to Car Talk (wasn't that the subject?)

Shortly after graduating from Michigan State in 1968 I pulled into a Sunoco station and picked up another "Sunny Dollar" (their contest at the time). Unbelievable - an Instant Winner of a Camaro!!!


I am gullible - You pullen my leg?
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Old 01-28-2015, 02:28 PM   #60
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[QUOTE=manyboats;302732
Marin,
I ride in the back. Safer.[/QUOTE]

That used to be the case to a degree. It's not anymore with the lightweight seats they're putting in the economy cabins today along with the very tight seat pitch. Assuming a crash is even survivable, you're better off up front in the heavy, solid business and first class seats. Also there is much more room up front to move around in the cabin to get out.

However the best place to be is next to where the fuselage breaks apart. Then, assuming the fire and smoje don't get you first, you have a fighting chance to get out.
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