Plagiarism on ActiveCaptain

[CaptTom]

There's one thing which might help with this sort of issue. I think I recall Jeff mentioning it once as a possible future enhancement, but my memory is far from perfect.

Allow AC users to somehow "rate" other reviewers.

We've found a few AC users who post helpful, complete and accurate information, and look for their reviews. We've also found a few who appear clueless, or worse, just fail to add any helpful information at all.

If the object is just to accumulate points, there's no incentive for quality.

If there was an on-line reputation at stake, perhaps reviewers would learn to add things which improved that reputation, to the benefit of all.

I can't speak to the specific reviews discussed here. But points alone only indicate quantity, not quality.

 

[Jeffrey S]

Now by failing to respond in an effective manner to a complaint and by stubbornness and defensiveness, AC has received criticism and Hayley has become a subject of criticism and discussion. None of that had to happen.

But where does that come from?

Within 5 minutes of getting the information from Retriever privately, I wrote to Kayley. She's cruising in Europe right now and it took 4 days for her to respond - that's a common thing with her. We communicate often.

We discussed the individual points. Here's part of her private email to me - I'm assuming she wouldn't have a problem with posting it. I'll also replace Retriever's first name with XXXX to protect his privacy.

With regard to XXXX, his claim (to put it in a nice way) is BS! The Douglass' Guide to SE Alaska has always been the "Bible" for the recreational boater. We used it heavily, and notes from it made into my route planning and reports. ... Similarities may well be due to the extensive notes that were originally utilized in the route planning. (And I do have our daily writings/reports for each location visited. Thus XXXX's comment about us NOT being at Sawmill Bay could be considered defamatory.)

To state that I ignored this or didn't take it seriously is also BS. To date, we've handled hundreds of DMCA claims. 85% of them were found to be without merit. 5% were clear copies and were removed or changed quickly. 10% were on-the-line. They were documented and left alone. All of them were done under our attorney's supervision. They have made multiple, official DMCA responses on our behalf over the years.

There's another side to this that no one sees...

One guidebook author issued 300 DMCA claims - he had the definitive (and only) guide for a very remote cruising area. A couple of the claims were valid and were changed. Some of his claims were text that was actually copied by him from other non-copyrighted blogs (an interesting outcome when it was pointed out to him - don't accuse someone of copying when you copied it yourself!). Many were complaints that we had a hazard about an uncharted rock formation or things like that. In 75% of those cases, his lat/lon for the hazards were at least 0.1 nm away from our position. Some were 2 nm off. His guide was from 2005 - ours was from someone who brought the dinghy up to the rock and took a reading. There is also pretty good satellite imagery that I used to verify the location. Our locations were dead-on correct.

So here's the piece no one sees...

In finding the errors of position in his guidebook, our response to those DMCA claims released our information back to him so he could correct his book in the next printing - we offered it for nothing including no attribution. We specifically gave him permission to copy all the info in our hazard without copyright because under poor visibility, it could cause damage to other boats.

To say that I'm doing nothing or that I'm overly defensive is just wrong. I'm protecting the rights of our users against BS copyright claims done "just because." There's obviously so much more going on with the original poster here. But he's not going to tell us...

And if I am being defensive, it's to stop the needless onslaught of others with false DMCA claims. If you have a valid claim, make it. If you don't have a valid claim, I'll still look into it and correct it if it's obviously a copy.

 

[rwidman]

Jeffrey,

The point is what she is posting is factually inaccurate. Many of the things she talks about are not there. There are very material things that are there she does not talk about. That is what bothers me. How do you miss a 150 foot long floating man camp?
How do you see goats where there aren't any and never have been any?

Tom

OK, I was tolerating this BS up to now but you've gone over the edge and I have to speak up!

"Factually inaccurate"? Active Captain is "crowd sourced". Anyone can post anything they want, real or imaginary. And they are posting "opinions" disguised as facts. Many times in reading reviews on AC, it's clear to me that the writer is not writing about the same place as everyone else.

The important thing to remember about "crowd sourced" information is that 50% of the population (the crowd) is below average intelligence. Many are way below average.

Read the reviews with a grain of salt. Or the whole shaker. Do additional research using other sources if possible.


Edit: I wrote this before reading Jeffery's explanation of who this person is so what I posted may not apply to this particular reviewer, but it certainly does apply to many of them. And as Jeffery pointed out, conditions do change over time. That nice marina may have gone condo and that nice anchorage may have silted in. Guide books are no different in this respect.

 

[Jeffrey S]

The important thing to remember about "crowd sourced" information is that 50% of the population (the crowd) is below average intelligence. Many are way below average.

All of our contributors have above average intelligence and are extremely good looking.

Being serious, if you're cruising over thousands of miles, you're likely above average in intelligence and skills. Darwin's laws would have eliminated you from cruising otherwise. In this particular case, Kayley is at the very top of the food chain in experience, skill, and cruising knowledge.

 

[Donsan]

All of our contributors have above average intelligence and are extremely good looking.

Being serious, if you're cruising over thousands of miles, you're likely above average in intelligence and skills. Darwin's laws would have eliminated you from cruising otherwise. In this particular case, Kayley is at the very top of the food chain in experience, skill, and cruising knowledge.

Thanks, I needed that. And if Kayley is good looking, I probably need that too.

 

[rwidman]

All of our contributors have above average intelligence and are extremely good looking.

Being serious, if you're cruising over thousands of miles, you're likely above average in intelligence and skills. Darwin's laws would have eliminated you from cruising otherwise. ...........

It would be fairly easy to post reviews of anchorages and marinas from one's armchair without ever setting foot on a boat. And it would be possible to do so using several different names.

I don't know why anyone would want to, but there are some strange people out there.

 

[Drake]

Sorry there, Drake. I didn't see your post until I posted my own. No plagiarism intended.

I'll send a PM with the address where you can send my royalty checks.

 

[BandB]

One thing I'm going to add here is that DMCA claims are out of control as are patent infringement and other claims, is, in my opinion an understatement. If you write a guidebook and someone then publishes another one with all your information then file a claim, sue, do whatever. However, if a few paragraphs here and there are quoted elsewhere, accept that as a compliment. If your guidebook is going to be harmed by a few paragraphs being copied or nearly copied on AC then you have more serious problems. Worry more about your guidebook than what is on AC or other places. There are going to be similarities. It's the totality that you should be selling.

Songwriters are getting constantly accused of copying simply because they have eight bars that are very similar to another older song or their basic theme is the same. To think that with all the music published over the years, what I write today won't remind one of a previous song isn't realistic. As an example, how many ways can you express being a jilted lover? One of the most popular topics and they all have similarities.

I'm tired of all the companies out there buying patents just to sue for infringement. I'm tired of the back and forth between Apple and Samsung.

In this case, I'd say if the guidebook wants to file a claim, then let them. Something tells me they already did and it was addressed. Regardless, that's their issue. The OP has no claim.

Now, I'll put myself in Kayley's place for a moment, but without nearly her experience. Someone comes on TF and asks about a marina that I've been to. I will start to answer from my memory, but I will also likely look at AC. I answered regarding one recently where I'd had a good experience but I pointed out where those very recently had not. That information came from AC where their were 3 or 4 recent reviews. Was I stealing from them? If I toss in something about an entrance, then I am likely to double check what AC says.

As an example of how easy it is to come very close, if you asked me about getting to the Southport City Free Dock, AC says,

"Stay to the eastern entrance of the Southport Basin near the American Fish Company Docks. Shoaling has extended from the scrub island across the basin and a number of boats that cut the corner to head west or get too far north in the ICW channel have run hard aground."​

So, if I then post, "Stay to the east when entering the Southport Basin near the American Fish Company Docks" have I somehow infringed? How many ways are there to say it? If I then say, "Many boats have cut the corner or gotten too far north in the ICW channel and run aground" have I infringed? At what point is it just multiple people stating the same facts? How much must I work to reword what I say or at what point must I attribute?

I happen to publish some magazines. We get infringed upon every day. We review a restaurant and then on some web site we'll see our comments repeated. We get such called to our attention regularly. What do we do? Nothing. Our magazine will stand on it's own. We feel complimented that people read it and find parts of it worth posting elsewhere. Meanwhile, we're on to the next edition. It was the previous owner's policy that she didn't want time spent or wasted on claims of infringement. If an entire article was copied word for word she'd perhaps contact and say "bad boys" and the place it had been copied to would put a note on their site, but otherwise she just didn't see it as a productive use of time or effort.

AC has become a huge target it seems. That reflects their incredible success and is both a compliment and a nuisance. I do think Jeffrey hurts himself by getting too defensive here, but I understand his annoyance too and I understand how personal it is to him. AC isn't just his business but is his child. I'd simply say that's part of being the leader. This however is not their complaint forum. Why don't we see complaints here against Waterway Guide and Cruisersnet.net? I've seen the same reviews on AC and the others. Typically one person posting on both, but sometimes someone different. How many ways are there to say there is shoaling at an entrance.

To all the guidebooks and websites out there, don't worry about what everyone else is doing, just publish your own book or site. If it's good enough, people will use it. Whether three paragraphs also appear to have been put on AC as well, is irrelevant. If you're consumed by complaining to AC, then perhaps you're losing your relevance. Seeing the same information elsewhere won't prevent me from buying. You having only 6 marinas listed while AC has 12 or one anchorage where they have 3 will do that. I used the other two eastern and SE cruising sites before I did AC. I still use them. I still find alerts elsewhere worth knowing, reviews worth reading. It doesn't have to be one or the other. They fulfill different needs.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming, which reminds me of all the local news broadcasts with their exclusives but somehow all three local stations have the same exclusive.

 

[Retriever]

Jeff, do you really think these examples are just different writers using similar words to describe the same facts? They're obviously not—they're entire paragraphs that are nearly word-for-word. Three times that I pointed out and there are so many more. Here's another, this one at St. John Harbor on Zarembo Island:

Douglass description:

"The harbor has an interesting natural feature—a carbonated artesian spring found on the mud flats in the southwest corner of the bay, about a quarter mile past the house on the west side of the bay. The spring is visible only at low tide."

And Kayley's:

"This area has a very interesting geological feature: a carbonated artsian spring found on the mud flats in the southwest corner about a nautical quarter-mile past the house on the west side of the bay. The spring is only visible at low tide."

That's not an accident. That's not two people independently coming up with the same way to present the same facts. That's one person copying another.

Another example, from Klag Bay. I recently visited and was curious about Radioville, a place I read about in the Douglass guide. The Douglass guide didn't have any specific location info on Radioville so I looked at ActiveCaptain on Coastal Explorer for more details.

Here's the Douglass description:

"Chichagof was the site of a gold and sllver mining village during the early part of the 20th Century. Also nearby, on an island referred to as "Radioville," a signal corps officer ran a radio station, delivering messages to and from the outside world to the village site.

Many structures and a vast array of mill equipment lie rusting along the shoreline. Colorful wild flowers, sprouting moss, and young shoots of hemlock compete with the rusting remains.

An additional advantage of this anchorage is while you'll be sitting on your vessel in perfectly calm water, you'll be happy not to be among the boaters outside who you'll hear constantly complaining over the VHF about their rough rides and 5-foot southeast seas.

For many of our friends the Chichagof Village Site is the best place to cruise to on Chichagof Island. We find it hard to debate their point."

And Kayley's review:

"Chichagof, at the head of Klag Bay, was the site of a gold and silver mining village during the first half of the twentieth century. More than 13,000,000 in gold was brought out of area mines between 1905 and the late 1930s. On a nearby small island (“Radioville”), a retired signal corps operator ran a radio station, delivering messages from the outside world to the village site.

Inside Klag Bay, it is perfectly still, while outside boaters complain via VHF of 5-foot southeast seas and a rough ride. The abandoned site of Chichagof mine is fun to explore.

Many structures and all kinds of fascinating mill equipment lie rusting along shore, sprouting moss or colorful wild flowers or young shoots of hemlock. One cruiser found a note at the kitchen table inviting them to make an entry in the diary; a picture of the original mining camp was placed nearby. For many cruisers, Klag Bay is a highlight of their Chichagof Island trip.

The bay is fairly flat at 4 fathoms over a long stretch and anchorage can be taken toward the head, avoiding rocks and a foul area from the islet to the eastern shore. This area is awash on low water and almost forms a breakwater.

Anchor in 4 fathoms over gray, sticky mud, clam shells and sand, with very good holding."

Why do they both have the same anecdote about VHF weather reports? That's a bizarre way to describe that a bay is well sheltered. Why do they both say Radioville is nearby, but not explain specifically where (in fact, Radioville is about 5 miles away, near the north end of Rough Channel)? How come every other ActiveCaptain reviewer I read comes up with their own language to describe the same facts, but Kayley doesn't?

You've raised the question about who copied who. Is that really a question given this quote from Kayley herself? "The Douglass' Guide to SE Alaska has always been the "Bible" for the recreational boater. We used it heavily, and notes from it made into my route planning and reports."

 

[Marlinmike]

I have wrote in a review of an area that I was in years before, so not that uncommon.

 

[Lost Horizons]

The important thing to remember about "crowd sourced" information is that 50% of the population (the crowd) is below average intelligence. Many are way below average.

That would be median, not average. More than 50% is below average, for the intelligence distribution is not symmetric.

 

[roguewave]

I just have to ask, what was the purpose of this thread? Are there not enough things in ones life to focus on without trying to dig up an issue with someone else...it almost seems like there is just a wealth of time on ones hands and nothing to do with it so let's make an issue out of something. I have absolutely no affiliation with AC or anyone associated with it...I just don't understand the why
Excuse me while I return to the things that bring me joy, or busted knuckles

***the above post probably includes me regarding intelligence, sorry for my ignorance

 

[Gmarr]

I have no skin in this game, but it's odd that this is now a third thread about AC in the past week, one of which was closed to allow things to cool off.....

Did someone piddle in the floor somewhere to make this angst, animosity and posturing to make it all worthwhile?

Now about how much chain to put on my anchor......

 

[Moonfish]

This is another version of the age old fight between "creative" and "sales". I have found my own intellectual property used in other people's videos. It's never been an issue where I am hurt financially, but it's quite irritating. It's NOT a compliment! A compliment is when the Discovery Channel asks permission to use my video, or NBC Sports buys some footage.

Sam is a writer, and a darn good one. His canine in this scuffle is perhaps less "legal" and more "moral". I see the same thing he does in the examples set forth. It's been essentially copied, plain and simple. Writers and content creators do not like this. People who are not creators and/or are business owners who rely on content creators will find ways to defend it. If the AC poster was as intelligent as indicated the posts would have been written in a more original voice, especially given the use of the guidebook in question. The defense of this plagiarism is merely the justification of "sales" trumping "creative". Happens all the time in the context of "business".

As far as crowd sourced information, I personally don't use it very much. Never use Yelp or Trip Advisor. They're kind of like movie reviews, just someone else's opinion. I've never needed Active Captain here in the PNW, although I understand it's not intended to proffer opinions. I rely on charts, local knowledge, guidebooks, etc. Haven't run aground yet...

 

[Wxx3]

I know I may not see the right way to do things as others here, but I am not understanding the righteous indignation.

Has no one here been on the internet recently?

But besides that, facts are facts. That seems to be lost in the heat of the emotions.

Most cruising guides say the same thing, why, because they are describing a physical layout that exists. Thus if I say, “turn right after 200 feet and look for the green marker” that’s not plagiarism because you happened to read the exact same description somewhere else.

It’s a fact.

Now, the next issue, is the OP suggesting that this Kayley person sat down with a cruising guide and copied out of it to make posts on AC?

Why, what am I missing?

Is there a reward for making posts on AC? Then I will start tomorrow!!

Anyone who still thinks Jeff should waste his time with this should get a life.

Or better yet go cruising.

Richard waiting for the winds to die down. No wait, I am sure someone else has mentioned that on the internet today. SO SORRY.

 

[BandB]

I know I may not see the right way to do things as others here, but I am not understanding the righteous indignation.

Has no one here been on the internet recently?

But besides that, facts are facts. That seems to be lost in the heat of the emotions.

Most cruising guides say the same thing, why, because they are describing a physical layout that exists. Thus if I say, “turn right after 200 feet and look for the green marker” that’s not plagiarism because you happened to read the exact same description somewhere else.

It’s a fact.

Now, the next issue, is the OP suggesting that this Kayley person sat down with a cruising guide and copied out of it to make posts on AC?

Why, what am I missing?

Is there a reward for making posts on AC? Then I will start tomorrow!!

Anyone who still thinks Jeff should waste his time with this should get a life.

Or better yet go cruising.

Richard waiting for the winds to die down. No wait, I am sure someone else has mentioned that on the internet today. SO SORRY.

I think you're missing one thing. Others who have an interest including the OP who has a relationship with the party he feels was infringed upon and Moonfish who is a commercial member and provides cruising information.

I personally think both sides are wrong. Actually that statement is true in the vast majority of disputes. I think the attackers of AC are going overboard and I think Jeff failed to diffuse the situation as he could have.

However, when all is said and done, I agree with you Richard, that it's being blown out of proportion. I dislike the use of a pleasure forum to forward agendas.

Here's the summary.

Complainant. There are posts on AC that appear to be plagiarized. I reported to AC (although not through the proper channels) and Jeffrey's response didn't satisfy me.

Jeffrey: I reviewed the complaint and talked to the poster. It was my determination that no copy rights had been violated and I allowed the posts to stand as is. That is my final decision. I'm sorry you didn't find my response acceptable. If you would like to discuss further please use the contact shown on the AC website. I'm not going into further detail on a public forum.

Complainant. I am still not satisfied.

That's all really that needed to be said.

 

[Cottontop]

That would be median, not average. More than 50% is below average, for the intelligence distribution is not symmetric.

Median, average, doesn't matter. That bunch crashed their boats early on and don't post to AC.

 

[Jeffrey S]

That's all really that needed to be said.

I think there are interesting aspects of the internet and crowd-sourcing that could have been talked about without the attacks about what I'm doing wrong. There is an entire industry set up around these DMCA types of issues. If you're taking part in this discussion but haven't at least Google'd DMCA and read the Wikipedia page, you're not informed.

While you're there, search "fair use" in Wikipedia and really read that. I mean really read it. I think that will show the legal side of this argument. You might not know about these laws and rulings and might not agree with them. But they are the law that we all agree to conform to.

These types of online uses do not follow the rules of college term papers from 1976 (1966?). That's like saying paper charts are better because you used them in 1985. It was a different time with different rules for a different environment.

 

[Wayfarer]

Is there a reward for making posts on AC? Then I will start tomorrow!!

I got a pretty sweet hat out of the deal! Thanks Jeff!

 

[Cottontop]

I think there are interesting aspects of the internet and crowd-sourcing that could have been talked about without the attacks about what I'm doing wrong. There is an entire industry set up around these DMCA types of issues. If you're taking part in this discussion but haven't at least Google'd DMCA and read the Wikipedia page, you're not informed.

While you're there, search "fair use" in Wikipedia and really read that. I mean really read it. I think that will show the legal side of this argument. You might not know about these laws and rulings and might not agree with them. But they are the law that we all agree to conform to.

These types of online uses do not follow the rules of college term papers from 1976 (1966?). That's like saying paper charts are better because you used them in 1985. It was a different time with different rules for a different environment.

Does the "fair use" doctrine allow students to make limited copies of another's work for educational purposes? Yes (although without attribution, still plagiarism (which is an ethical problem, not a legal one)).

Does the "fair use" doctrine allow a commercial enterprise to copy a competitor's content for its own benefit? Generally, no.

 

[BandB]

Median, average, doesn't matter. That bunch crashed their boats early on and don't post to AC.

You could have crashed your boat early on and still post to AC.

 

[Jeffrey S]

Does the "fair use" doctrine allow a commercial enterprise to copy a competitor's content for its own benefit? Generally, no.

I think a reading of fair use would be in order. Or just consider Jon Stewart's use of Fox News broadcasts - there's a direct use of a competitor's content for their own benefit. There's no close-wording. They re-broadcasting the actual Fox broadcast. And yet, Fox couldn't go after the Comedy Channel for copyright/DMCA.

So if a factual description about a physical area are similar but are then expanded upon and commented upon, isn't that fair use by the same means? Again, read the fair use page before responding.

It's sort of even worse that a fact cannot be copyrighted as mentioned multiple times in this thread already.

 

[twistedtree]

Regardless of how this has been handled, I think Kayley's posts are pretty blatant infringements of the Douglas book. But only the holders of that copyright are in a position to complain about it. DMCA doesn't really change copyright laws or fair use - it more provides a procedure for challenges, and perhaps most importantly makes it clear that the Kayley is responsible for her writings, not AC. And it provides a mechanism to compel AC to reveal the identity of the whoever is being challenged.

Hopefully what this thread WILL accomplish is a wake up call to Kayley and others who might be tempted to cut and paste into AC from other writings.

 

[BandB]

Does the "fair use" doctrine allow students to make limited copies of another's work for educational purposes? Yes (although without attribution, still plagiarism (which is an ethical problem, not a legal one)).

Does the "fair use" doctrine allow a commercial enterprise to copy a competitor's content for its own benefit? Generally, no.

To the students cited above, no that is not part of the "fair use" doctrine, although educational efforts can be termed fair use, but there is an entirely different exception granted for most education. As to the commercial enterprise copying competitor, that also isn't what this is about as no one is saying AC copied.

Now the facts of fair us. Whoops....there are none really as courts fight every day over them. However, there are four factors that are weighed.

1. Purpose and Character. This is the commercial vs. non-commercial, advancing knowledge vs. not section.

2. Nature of the original work. Facts and ideas can't be copyrighted. Films of historic events have not had copyrights upheld. The merits of allowing freely available information and it's usefulness can make it fair use.

3. Amount and Substantiality. The amount of the total work used. If you quote a few hundred words out of a book, generally that is still fair use.

4. Effect on Value. Harm. Has the value of the copyrighted work been lowered. This is typical of most civil law and damages in that the burden of proof is on the copyright owner. It's very difficult. If I were to quote without attribution a large part of a guide here on TF, it would not be in direct violation of this factor. It wouldn't directly lower the value of the original. TF isn't a substitute for a cruising guide. People don't weigh TF vs. a cruising guide. TF is not a substitute for a guide. Then there is indirect. That's typically more in licensing. If I quote from one source that is in the business of licensing it's information.

Now you put all four of these together and then try to figure it out. Spend a few years in court fighting about it. Then if you win, try to assess the damages. Two lawyers won't agree. Two judges won't agree. Appeals courts often overturn lower courts and then a still higher court might overturn them.

There was no copyright violation by any reasonable evidence. Whether there was any inappropriate act or ethical or more violation, that is each person's opinion.

Was the guidebook harmed by any of this? I can't imagine so. Have they published since 2007? That's the last I see and it's available in paper for $69.95. I'd never heard of it until today. I have to tell you too if it was currently being published, I'd be less inclined to buy it, not because of AC, but because of all this thread and all their supporters have stirred up. They're likely hurt by Kindle and by the internet. I'd say complain to Amazon and Al Gore. Seems like a lot of consternation over a lot of old information from multiple sources. I didn't even realize until just now this was all ancient history. Go after Conde Nast next. I found they have "Exploring Southeast Alaska's Coast." That would certainly seem close enough to target.

 

[boatpoker]

Much ado about nothing.

Jeffrey, congratulations on creating something new and working your butt off to make it a success.

PS. I rarely use AC but I admire people who get off their A## and do something.

 

[BandB]

Much ado about nothing.

Jeffrey, congratulations on creating something new and working your butt off to make it a success.

PS. I rarely use AC but I admire people who get off their A## and do something.

It's as if there's an objection to free enterprise, to the profit motive. Yes, Jeffrey is in it for profit. Why wouldn't he be. I have a feeling most boats on this site were paid for by profits in the free enterprise system. A few paid for by tax dollars. It's as if being successful is some plague.

 

[hmason]

It's as if there's an objection to free enterprise, to the profit motive. Yes, Jeffrey is in it for profit. Why wouldn't he be. I have a feeling most boats on this site were paid for by profits in the free enterprise system. A few paid for by tax dollars. It's as if being successful is some plague.

 

[Moonfish]

Much ado about nothing.

Jeffrey, congratulations on creating something new and working your butt off to make it a success.

PS. I rarely use AC but I admire people who get off their A## and do something.

Obviously you don't get it. If you've ever been plagiarized you wouldn't think it's much ado about nothing. Intellectual property is at issue. Not whether someone is a success or not.

Furthermore, I don't believe Jeff created AC to be a site for copying other people's work. It really is a great idea for a crowd sourced information site and a lot of boaters love it. The problem is quality control of information and where it comes from. Very difficult to do the larger AC gets.

 

[boatpoker]

Obviously you don't get it. If you've ever been plagiarized you wouldn't think it's much ado about nothing. Intellectual property is at issue. Not whether someone is a success or not.

Furthermore, I don't believe Jeff created AC to be a site for copying other people's work. It really is a great idea for a crowd sourced information site and a lot of boaters love it. The problem is quality control of information and where it comes from. Very difficult to do the larger AC gets.

My website articles and survey formats have been plagiarized often, but I actually have a life and don't care.

Never ever, ever believe anything you read. My younger son is somewhat of a sports celebrity and has often been interviewed for various sports magazines and TV shows. In his earlier years I was present at all his interiews. What a load of crap they printed. He never said half of the things they quoted him as saying. Get a life and move on.

 

[tpbrady]

Jeffrey,

Yes I do live here (Alaska) and the only goats on islands in SE Alaska are on Baranof and Revillagigedo. Those goats were introduced by ADF&G as were the ones on Kodiak Island. Next Kayley's posts are dated in July of 2014 the same year I was in the same places. If her posts are from logs 20 years ago, then they shouldn't be dated as if they were current. I don't have a dog in the plagiarism argument. I do care about accuracy.

Tom