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Old 10-10-2013, 03:44 PM   #1
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Pilothouse or Europa

Hello,
We are ernest wannabees. We have chartered a couple of times, had some trawler training, etc. We intend to do mostly southeastern US cruising, mostly on the ICW, with a possible trip (or trips) to the Bahamas.
I know that this will be a controversial question - but we need some opinions from those that are experienced.
We like the Europa and the Pilothouse style boats. Of course each has its own strengths, but if someone has cruised in those waters in both types, we would be very interested in your perspective on the strengths and weaknesses of each.

Thank you,
Mike
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:21 PM   #2
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We have a sundeck. We also have a large Labrador. We love the sundeck for the aft-cabin room, but is a bear for hauling aboard an 80-pound dog that thinks he's a sea otter.

Pilothouse or Europa is a good bet. If in the SE US, you'll want a flying bridge for the pleasant days and nice views. Not sure if pets are a factor in your case. Also, because the deck is closer to the water surface, your on/offs will be much easier in either case. Which boats and sizes are you scouting?
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:05 PM   #3
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We were about to order a Europa when the price dropped on the 2007 pilot house we now own. We like the PH for the view and separation from the living space. Either way the walk around side decks are great and the on/off for the dog is huge.

Dave
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Old 10-11-2013, 06:01 AM   #4
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A seperate PH is great to be able to operate 24/7 and have the rest of the crew be able to eat , rest , whatever.

For a couple that daylight travels the ICW ,(anchored 99% of nights) the more eye room of the Europa , and the lack of UP-Down climbing and living is a plus.

The lower helm station makes docking and locking thru easier.

A HUGE! midship cleat is a requirement .
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:11 AM   #5
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Hi Dave,
Thanks for the information. A used Selene is on our short list. But if I has the $$, the new Selene Europa would be tempting. What were you considering? My wife really likes the GB Europas, but I tend towards single engines, which are hard to find in the GB boats.
Mike
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:22 AM   #6
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For the price of a new Selene Europa, you can get a very nice GB Europa for about 1/2 the cost. Take the saved $500K and pay the assumed extra $1-2K dollars per year for oil filters, other maintenance and fuel burned by the twin.

With the GB you can travel fast when needed or slow if you so choose. The Selene is only slow - no fast gear with it at all. Read Alaska Seduction's blog to see the advantages of being able to go above hull speed efficiently.

While you're at it, look at a few other vessels too, Selenes and GBs are not the only show in town, likely not even the best.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
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A seperate PH is great to be able to operate 24/7 and have the rest of the crew be able to eat , rest , whatever.

For a couple that daylight travels the ICW ,(anchored 99% of nights) the more eye room of the Europa , and the lack of UP-Down climbing and living is a plus.

The lower helm station makes docking and locking thru easier.

A HUGE! midship cleat is a requirement .
Agree and add that trunk cabin traditional, tri cabin (whatever you want to call them) have benefits over both the pilothouse and Europa.

If Around 40 feet and under...I'll discuss that a pilothouse can be a nice area to get away but take away from saloon space....and make the helms person a loner if the other is off doing chores or relaxing doing something hat can't be done in the pilothouse (guess it depends on size.) My tri-cabin is only a couple steps up/down from every thing and my partner can hear me in every part of the boat while I'm at the lower helm. I always wanted a pilot house...but with only 2 on board and a smaller vessel...I'm glad the lower steering station is easily communicated with from the entire vessel.

The Europa is great is you don't frequent the bridge or you stay up there long term. It's neither easy to get stuff up to/down from and for people with trouble with ladders...it's not in the equation. Also if you have or might have a dog...forget them. I don't like forward berthing on smaller vessels and again on 40 somethings...cramming 2 staterooms forward just doesn't work for me till you get much roomier like a KK42.
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:18 PM   #8
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We've just come from a boat buying process over 2+ years. We started looking at CHB 34's moving to Europa styles andd some tri cabins and then looking at pilot houses (Pacific Trawlers, North Pacific Trawlers and KK42's). We liked the Europa design, but ultimately went with the Pilothouse, largely because of the improved space and I really liked the Pilothouse for piloting, particularly if you are going long distances in foul weather. I have spent a lot of time on salmon seiners, and really liked the Pilothouse. We went with a KK42 that had undergone a substantial refit and were very glad we did. However Europas are really nice, that is for sure. But moving from a 34' to a 42' certainly shows an evolution on what we ultimately settled on.

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Old 10-13-2013, 04:33 PM   #9
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I'd go Europe for your cruising plans.
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Old 10-13-2013, 05:03 PM   #10
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Become a "loner in the pilot house"... captain, mate,cat and Labrador all spend many hours in the PH quite comfortably. We do have an aft docking station.

Dave
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:25 PM   #11
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The more time I spend aboard Mark Pierce's 35' Coot pilot house the more of a fan I become. Saturday evening cocktails at the dock we had 8 people in the saloon and 4 in the pilot house and nobody felt uncomfortable at all. It was cozy but never crowded. Great use of space.

If a person wants to absolutely minimize steps then the Europa is the way to go, but I question how often a non live aboard walks from aft saloon to forward stateroom per day.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:35 PM   #12
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Weather and how you operate is an important consideration as well. Being able to walk side decks under protection is a very nice feature. Here in the Pacific Northwest it's worth the decreased salon space (IMO).
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:59 PM   #13
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Interesting discussion. I had been considering raising up the relatively small pilot house on the Pilgrim design, ala Jay Benford's design....
Redesigning the Pilgrim 40 Trawler / Canal Boat

.... but after walking through a number of vessels at TrawlerFest, I found that it could likely be an impediment to climb (up and down) numerous stairs when transitioning from the front to the aft of the vessel. It just seems to break the vessel up into 3 smaller areas and thus make the vessel appear smaller inside for its length.

The 3 steps from the saloon to the pilot house on the P-40 where manageable. Any more than that might become questionable.


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Weather and how you operate is an important consideration as well. Being able to walk side decks under protection is a very nice feature. Here in the Pacific Northwest it's worth the decreased salon space (IMO).
I also like that walk around / covered side deck if nothing more for its looks. There is a 'style' to it that's lost in the more boxy creations that carry the cabin side all the way to the beam. I guess that's why I like the Pilgrim 40 design much better than the 43 footer.

Speaking of Europa styles (I did not realize this referred to steering station within saloon till now), that new Grand Banks they displayed at the Annapolis Boat Show was sure a beauty.....I think it was a 43 Heritage EU.
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:04 PM   #14
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Speaking of Europa styles (I did not realize this referred to steering station within saloon till now), that new Grand Banks they displayed at the Annapolis Boat Show was sure a beauty.....I think it was a 43 Heritage EU. [/QUOTE]


I wonder how many East Coast trawlers with Europa or aft cabin style inside stations are regularly operated from the inside station? Anyone have a feel for that?

Marty
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:13 PM   #15
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I wonder how many East Coast trawlers with Europa or aft cabin style inside stations are regularly operated from the inside station? Anyone have a feel for that?

Marty
Even in our oft inclement clime, we operate most of the time from the top of the climb (i.e. the bridge).
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:33 PM   #16
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It has to be pretty nasty to get me off the bridge helm, but cold weather does it faster as I get older....
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:14 PM   #17
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So those flybridges are even more popular than I thought?
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:20 PM   #18
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We have cruised extensively in a 48' Pacemaker Yachtfish that had a pilothouse, aft cabin and a cockpit. that design has the best of all worlds. we now run a 39' Mainship sedan (Europa) that really fits our needs now. Easy access from the swim platform that is wide enough for the dink with room to walk behind it. Steps to the flybridge rather than a ladder, wide, protected side decks and a side door next to the lower station that makes single handed docking pretty easy. For visibility reasons I almost always run from the flybridge.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:13 AM   #19
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Our PH is 12 x10 and is the main day cabin, galley dinette and head are below.

There is no fly bridge or oxygen tent.
The boat is operated only from the from a helm chair or with the AP remote while relaxing on a built in couch area.Yes there is a rear view mirror for the ditch runs.

The trick is to have enough openings in every side (including cabin top) that the outside temperatures can be brought in .

Next winter project is scrapping the existing doors and installing dutch doors .
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:30 PM   #20
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The Europa works well for us. Underway, we both love being on the flybridge (ours is 20 ft long by 11 ft wide) but for tight navigation, docking and picking up mooring buoys, I am always at the lower helm. It is great to be only one step from the wheel to the dock through the side doors & gates (also have a transom door to the swim platform). I have seen lots of turmoil with captains trying to dock from flybridges and pilothouses while the mate (admiral) is alone on the side deck or cockpit with a line and no help.

Also, we like that the lower helm is part of the salon/galley so we can each be doing our own things but are together, if you know what I mean.
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