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Old 10-14-2015, 08:59 PM   #1
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Pilot House or CMY?

We are sailors moving to the trawler life style and have more or less narrowed our search to the Nordhavn 47, Selene 47 and the DeFever 50 CMY, which the Admiral loves for the layout. Our budget is up to about 800k. My questions for the group are: 1. what are the pros/cons of a pilothouse vs the CMY one level style? Is it just preference? 2. Given our focus on these boats, are we missing a model we should consider? Plans are to cruise PNW to East Coast and Caribbean. Thanks!
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:15 PM   #2
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Pilot House or CMY?

I like the Pilothouse myself. Like driving around in my living room. If you are interest end in the Selene and the Nordhavn, at least check out the KK 48 as a comparison. That vessel would be my choice in the group. It has a larger PH and is a bigger boat all round for the same length.

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Old 10-14-2015, 09:21 PM   #3
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We are sailors moving to the trawler life style and have more or less narrowed our search to the Nordhavn 47, Selene 47 and the DeFever 50 CMY, which the Admiral loves for the layout. Our budget is up to about 800k. My questions for the group are: 1. what are the pros/cons of a pilothouse vs the CMY one level style? Is it just preference? 2. Given our focus on these boats, are we missing a model we should consider? Plans are to cruise PNW to East Coast and Caribbean. Thanks!
I'm pro pilothouse. Think they offer better visibility. If you cruise at night, it allows the pilothouse to be dark for better external visibility while normal lighting can be used in the common living areas. I also like to be seperated from the general day to day living areas while driving. Certainly nice to have people with you in the pilothouse. Just like to keep the distractions to a minimum. Whether its someone on a cell phone, grandkids playing, or a video playing on a monitor, they all distract from the captain's primary job.

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Old 10-14-2015, 09:56 PM   #4
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Thanks, OC Diver! We did look at the KK48 - not many available - the issue for us was the engine room access through the hatch in the salon - thoughts?
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Old 10-14-2015, 10:05 PM   #5
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I like the Pilothouse myself. Like driving around in my living room. If you are interest end in the Selene and the Nordhavn, at least check out the KK 48 as a comparison. That vessel would be my choice in the group. It has a larger PH and is a bigger boat all round for the same length.

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In addition the KK48 is my far the most efficient of the bunch. To a certain extent the harder engine room access is the price one pays for that efficiency.
Check out the hull shape.
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Old 10-14-2015, 10:53 PM   #6
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Thanks, OC Diver! We did look at the KK48 - not many available - the issue for us was the engine room access through the hatch in the salon - thoughts?
Life is full of trade offs. Really like my Cherubini especially the pilothouse. Access to my engine space is though hatches in the floor. The other point of access was by lifting up the stairs going to the staterooms......lifting a set of stairs....need I say more. My engine room has level floors now. There is a 3' step ladder that's held in place with a heavy bungee, that makes climbing up and down much easier. Removing the bungee and folding the ladder has it out of the way in seconds if need be. Having level floors on either side of the engine makes a huge difference and is neither difficult or expensive to add.

Regarding the KK42, KK48, etc, you need to spend some time on one before getting focused on them. I really liked the KK42, had looked at 2 of them, and came close to putting an offer on one. Had never been on one in the water until last Saturday. There are several threads on active and passive stabilizers and often wondered why people thought they were necessary. I now understand. At the dock there is noticeable roll when walking across the saloon from port to starboard. This isn't a problem for me, but much different from my hard chined semi displacement hull. My point is simply that it's important to understand and be comfortable with the amount of roll both under way and at anchor. Think KK still has great boats and the 48' would be great to have. Pretty sure my wife would prefer a hard chined boat though.

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Old 10-14-2015, 11:11 PM   #7
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Prefer a pilothouse (particularly without the unneeded flying bridge). It doesn't seem proper to operate a boat from the saloon. A pilothouse is likely to have windows on all sides and providing good visibility, and it is (somewhat) away from the hubbub and lights of the living room/saloon.

(As usual, this summer we often ran the boat with only one of the two pilothouse doors open. It was too cool/breezy otherwise. Occupying an open flying bridge would have been uncomfortable.)
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:16 AM   #8
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Pilot House or CMY?

When the PH is raised (also RPH) its a huge plus for visibility but can be less comfortable with heavy motion. Higher also keeps windshield dryer. Biggest drawback is no forward visibility from saloon. PH can also provide almost an extra stateroom of privacy - I cruised on a friend's KK54 and that was my berth - loved it!


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Old 10-15-2015, 12:33 AM   #9
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Prefer a pilothouse (particularly without the unneeded flying bridge). It doesn't seem proper to operate a boat from the saloon. A pilothouse is likely to have windows on all sides and providing good visibility, and it is (somewhat) away from the hubbub and lights of the living room/saloon.
As someone with no experience with a trawler of any design, those are exactly my thoughts. For some reason, a helm station in the galley just doesn't appeal to me. Plus, maybe due to my transitioning from a sailboat, it seems uncomfortable to not be able to get to either side of the boat from the helm quickly and easily. Hence a pilothouse. I also can't seem to see why a flybridge would be desirable for the PNW waters that I call home.
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Old 10-15-2015, 07:59 AM   #10
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What ex-sailor has an $800,000 budget for a motorboat?!?!?
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:13 AM   #11
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:46 AM   #12
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If you ask most CMY owners where they primarily pilot from I think they'll say, "the fly-bridge". Most pilot house vessels, even if they have the fly-bridge, drive from the pilot house the majority of the time. Just something to think about.

I think you'd be happy with any of the vessels listed but what where will you be going? If just doing coastal stuff, I wouldn't pick the Nordhavn. The others, imho, have better interior living/hang out space.
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:07 AM   #13
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How about a Defever 48' Euro?

2009 Defever 48 Euro Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:24 AM   #14
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Prefer the floor plan in a typical motoryacht...salon and galley in the middle separating the two stateroom, especially in a 45' boat. Specifically do not like all the staterooms crammed up in the bow. I run the boat from the lower helm when the weather is bad and from the flybridge when it's nice. Depends if you want an "inside" boat or one focused on outside spaces. For operations other than the rainy and cold PNW, it's a motoryacht for us every time.....especially in the size range mentioned.
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:41 AM   #15
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I prefer a boat that has both a flybridge and a wheel house.

I mostly drive from the flybridge. Better visibility all around in most cases. You can feel and hear the wind. And the added height of a flybridge allows you to see farther out as well as further down into the water when it's clear. Which is real nice when you are going in through a channel in a reef of pass.
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Old 10-15-2015, 10:45 AM   #16
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Close to 150 happy N47/52 owners have asked the same question during the past 15 years. Their choice is obvious. I am speaking of seasoned boaters who cruise the world and are looking for safety and reliability. Plus the backup from Nordhavn is unmatched even on older vessels.

The above statements come from a happy DeFever owner who is not planning on cruising the world. The aft cabin, very large master arrangement on a DF is divine. But for serious long distance continuous night travels the noise from the props and shafts on an aft cabin design are very noticeable.

We are mainly focused on coastal (the Americas but not trans Atlantic or trans Pacific) cruising for which an N47 will do just fine too, but at a price premium over a DF. Also to be remembered, an N47 is slow which can be irksome to some including many current and past N 47 owners I know well.

Selenes require careful shopping as so many models and configurations are out there that the company abandoned due to lack of buyer's interest. You could move to a Selene 57 for the price range you are considering. Systems designs and accesibility on the Selenes is not up to par with a Nordhavn or DeFever

I am not a KK 48 person solely due to the silly ER access. Climbing a ladder to do hourly checks in a rolling sea with a hatch propped up is not what these old bones or my nimble wife enjoy. And forward masters are not my thing in any conditions. Been there done that.

The resale on a well tended N47/52 is the best in the business for that size range simply because the seasoned world traveling boaters know value and safety. The 47 with a fly bridge would be nice for the warmer climes and surprisingly useful in the PNW also.

There are several N52s on the market, if it were me that is where I would go with not too much of a budget stretch for you. We came close to ordering a new build N52. Contact James Hamilton, he is one well worth corresponding with on this great question you have raised.
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Old 10-15-2015, 11:01 AM   #17
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I am pro whatever-makes-the-wife-happy!!!! That is a very important point. Also, you did not mention what time of cruising you will be doing. If you plan on crossing oceans, then that would lean towards the Nordhavns. If your journeys will be a little shorter, the DF should serve just fine. The DF motoryachts are a bargain as it relates to what you get. I have a friend that sold his DF 49 CMY and he regrets it to this day. He currently owns a DF 52 Pilothouse and he still waxes eloquently about that 49.
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Old 10-15-2015, 11:09 AM   #18
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When the PH is raised (also RPH) its a huge plus for visibility but can be less comfortable with heavy motion. Higher also keeps windshield dryer. Biggest drawback is no forward visibility from saloon. PH can also provide almost an extra stateroom of privacy - I cruised on a friend's KK54 and that was my berth - loved it!


Keith
This is very informative. Thanks. Not that it will change my desire to have a pilothouse in the future, but the no forward visibility from the saloon would suck. A big drawback indeed as I enjoy my 360 degree view from my saloon. I guess the fix would be to hang out in the pilothouse. Better to know now than be surprised and bummed out later.

The heavy motion being elevated would only be an issue if the boat isn't stabilized.

I consider a pilothouse design with a full beam master stateroom amidships best of both worlds as it has the large master stateroom of a sundeck/motoryacht design yet have a deck level cockpit and easy access to saloon and swim step of a sedan/europa.
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Old 10-15-2015, 11:18 AM   #19
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This is very informative. Thanks. Not that it will change my desire to have a pilothouse in the future, but the no forward visibility from the saloon would suck. A big drawback indeed as I enjoy my 360 degree view from my saloon. I guess the fix would be to hang out in the pilothouse. Better to know now than be surprised and bummed out later.

The heavy motion being elevated would only be an issue if the boat isn't stabilized.

I consider a pilothouse design with a full beam master stateroom amidships best of both worlds as it has the large master stateroom of a sundeck/motoryacht design yet have a deck level cockpit and easy access to saloon and swim step of a sedan/europa.
I agree!!! I have always been fond of pilothouse designs but have never thought of this. I am a sedan person at heart. And currently utilize speed over time since I am not retired. So I have always kept an eye on sportfish boats since the trawler segment offers very few planing sedan style boats. The one thing that has kept me from a sportfish boat is the lack of visibility forward. Very few modern(last 20 years) sportfishes have windows forward. And it sucks being in a salon without that forward visibility...Unless of course the boat is 60+ feet. Then you do not feel as "encapsulated".
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Old 10-15-2015, 11:28 AM   #20
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I agree!!! I have always been fond of pilothouse designs but have never thought of this. I am a sedan person at heart. And currently utilize speed over time since I am not retired. So I have always kept an eye on sportfish boats since the trawler segment offers very few planing sedan style boats. The one thing that has kept me from a sportfish boat is the lack of visibility forward. Very few modern(last 20 years) sportfishes have windows forward. And it sucks being in a salon without that forward visibility...Unless of course the boat is 60+ feet. Then you do not feel as "encapsulated".
A Riviera would be great for you.

For the OP, if your wife likes the CPMY design and you like a pilohouse, may I suggest you look at a GB52 europa as a compromise. It is called a europa but it is somewhat of a flushdeck. Not a pilothouse but the wheelhouse is slightly elevated.
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