Just acquired a Charley Morgan West Indian 36 Trawler and am in search of some parts for the Perkins 6.354 diesel. The manifold is shot as well as the mixing elbow. Clearly these are difficult to locate, subsequently I am reaching out to some of you guys in the hopes you may have something laying around.BTW, I'm really trying to figure out how to post images within this thread. Thx.
Perkins 6.354
- Thread starter Seachaser
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STB
Guru
They arent likely hard to source, I got two for my old boat from S&W and the owner of my new boat replaced them with manicoolers from TAD and I used Mr. Cool for the coolers on the old boat.
So, you might try calling...
S&W Diesel in Wilmington, CA...(310) 835-3155
TAD Diesel in Hayes, VA...(804) 642-9296
Mr. Cool...(866) 726-2665 or www.mrcool.us
So, you might try calling...
S&W Diesel in Wilmington, CA...(310) 835-3155
TAD Diesel in Hayes, VA...(804) 642-9296
Mr. Cool...(866) 726-2665 or www.mrcool.us
Brooksie
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Just got a manifold 2 years ago. Barr still makes them and if you shop around online, about $370. if I recall. Comes with new studs but not gaskets. If it is not the old cast iron type, you are in for a very expensive ride.
As to the elbow, Transatlantic Diesel will have what you need. Or for about the same money you could have a one piece elbow made. I had mine made at Stainless Marine in Miami. Seemed to be much better material than the originals and has lasted 20+ years.
As to the elbow, Transatlantic Diesel will have what you need. Or for about the same money you could have a one piece elbow made. I had mine made at Stainless Marine in Miami. Seemed to be much better material than the originals and has lasted 20+ years.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
Welcome aboard.
Welcome aboard.
Seachaser, congrats on your new-to-you West Indian. Those are handsome boats. Did you buy Yellowbird, by any chance? (Formerly docked at the Key West Yacht Club).
Looks like Brooksie served up good suggestions about that Perkins manifold and elbow.
Looks like Brooksie served up good suggestions about that Perkins manifold and elbow.
Duvie
Senior Member
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Seachaser, if it is the aluminum manicooler that you need there is a guy on I think RI craigslist selling a 9000 hour 200 HP 6.354. Looks well maintained I think he is asking $2500.00. It has the aluminum Manicooler
No, this one came out of Bradenton. Her name is Isle Escape. Beautiful boat, indeed. Everything looks great thus far and once I get the pieces I need she should be good to go.
Thank you!
Perkins 6.354 manifold
Still having a hard go with locating the proper manifold. Barr does not have a proper fit and another company (Stainless manufactured manifold) was around &4800 and change. UGH!!!! there has to be something that'll work and for a "reasonable" price.
1979 Charley Morgan West Indian 36'. Perkins 6.354 (natural) diesel
Still having a hard go with locating the proper manifold. Barr does not have a proper fit and another company (Stainless manufactured manifold) was around &4800 and change. UGH!!!! there has to be something that'll work and for a "reasonable" price.
1979 Charley Morgan West Indian 36'. Perkins 6.354 (natural) diesel
STB
Guru
Did you contact the three places I suggested? I feel almost sure that at least two of the three would be able to help you. I've never known S&W to turn up empty handed, even if it takes them a few days to track something down. And, TAD has a great reputation for turning up these parts quickly. Mr. Cool is worth a call, although they have less Perkins-specific knowledge.
Really give them a try...at least S&W and TAD:
S&W Diesel in Wilmington, CA...(310) 835-3155
TAD Diesel in Hayes, VA...(804) 642-9296
Mr. Cool...(866) 726-2665 or www.mrcool.us
Really give them a try...at least S&W and TAD:
S&W Diesel in Wilmington, CA...(310) 835-3155
TAD Diesel in Hayes, VA...(804) 642-9296
Mr. Cool...(866) 726-2665 or www.mrcool.us
I did, but unfortunately it hard to find. One fella had stainless and was asking $4800 just for the manifold. Whoa! I’ll search further before I pull the trigger on that one. Really appreciate you guys.
Btw, the one from Barr is not the same hookup and for a turbo. Mine is “natural “
Btw, the one from Barr is not the same hookup and for a turbo. Mine is “natural “
STB
Guru
Hi Seachaser,
Who did you talk to at S&W? Do you remember? What about at TAD?
My last engines were 6.354MGTs, much rarer than 6.354Ts. S&W was able to order the correct manifolds for me -- and they cost no where near that much.
I was looking to see how much, but it was buried in a long invoice from the mechanic. But, as nearly as I can tell, it was less than $1,000.00. Maybe $850.
What is your engine's build or serial number? Even the first two letters are likely good enough (although the first two letters and the next 5 numbers are better). The number is right (just barely) in "front" (to port) of the injector pump on the block.
If you can't see that, what about the part number on your existing manifold?
I can't tell for sure without knowing your engine's serial number (or, at least the first two letters), or the part number on the original manifold, but I'd be a little surprised if the one you need isn't the one below (Perkins: ZZ90054). It is used on almost all of the "TE" T6.354(M) engines, and even the "TF" horizontal turbo engines:
-- https://www.dieselpartsdirect.com/zz90054
-- TAD for marine exhaust manifolds, perkins T6.354M parts, perkins T6.354M manifold, perkins exhaust manifold
-- Mesa Marine Manifold MOD #555 (Mod 555, carbon steel, no picture)
-- Mesa Marine Manifold MOD #571 (Mod 571, stainless)
I really don't think you are chasing a unicorn. Those are common engines. With the numbers, I really think I can help you find it if I didn't happen to guess it.
Cheers!
-Greg
Who did you talk to at S&W? Do you remember? What about at TAD?
My last engines were 6.354MGTs, much rarer than 6.354Ts. S&W was able to order the correct manifolds for me -- and they cost no where near that much.
I was looking to see how much, but it was buried in a long invoice from the mechanic. But, as nearly as I can tell, it was less than $1,000.00. Maybe $850.
What is your engine's build or serial number? Even the first two letters are likely good enough (although the first two letters and the next 5 numbers are better). The number is right (just barely) in "front" (to port) of the injector pump on the block.
If you can't see that, what about the part number on your existing manifold?
I can't tell for sure without knowing your engine's serial number (or, at least the first two letters), or the part number on the original manifold, but I'd be a little surprised if the one you need isn't the one below (Perkins: ZZ90054). It is used on almost all of the "TE" T6.354(M) engines, and even the "TF" horizontal turbo engines:
-- https://www.dieselpartsdirect.com/zz90054
-- TAD for marine exhaust manifolds, perkins T6.354M parts, perkins T6.354M manifold, perkins exhaust manifold
-- Mesa Marine Manifold MOD #555 (Mod 555, carbon steel, no picture)
-- Mesa Marine Manifold MOD #571 (Mod 571, stainless)
I really don't think you are chasing a unicorn. Those are common engines. With the numbers, I really think I can help you find it if I didn't happen to guess it.
Cheers!
-Greg
Last edited:
STB
Guru
Hey Seachaser,
Call Mesa Marine in Alabama directly: (251) 928-1234
Or, use their Web form
Although they are the source for a bunch of the dealers, they are actually a local fabrication shop with a walk in counter and will sell end customers both the parts in their inventory and custom fabs.
I suspected they were S&Ws source, but wasn't sure. I ordered a metric boat load of parts all at once and was glad for S&W to do all of the footwork to source it for me an my mechanic, except for the coolers, for which Mr. Cool did the work and supplied everything needed.
I suspect S&W is marking the parts up more now than they once did, or I got less of a mark-up because they supplied so much for me at once.
Cheers!
-Greg
Call Mesa Marine in Alabama directly: (251) 928-1234
Or, use their Web form
Although they are the source for a bunch of the dealers, they are actually a local fabrication shop with a walk in counter and will sell end customers both the parts in their inventory and custom fabs.
I suspected they were S&Ws source, but wasn't sure. I ordered a metric boat load of parts all at once and was glad for S&W to do all of the footwork to source it for me an my mechanic, except for the coolers, for which Mr. Cool did the work and supplied everything needed.
I suspect S&W is marking the parts up more now than they once did, or I got less of a mark-up because they supplied so much for me at once.
Cheers!
-Greg
Xsbank
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These manicooler things seem to be an issue. Having never seen one, why not just get a truck manifold and wrap it. Then run the exhaust into the mixing elbow? These engines must have been used for other purposes? My entire exhaust is wrapped, I'm keel cooled. My engine room is no hotter than the engine room in my previous GB.
STB
Guru
Also, what about the $1,103.30 one from Diesel Parts Direct?
-- https://www.dieselpartsdirect.com/zz90054
Isn't that the right model?
If not, I might be able to help...if I knew what I was looking for. Can you post any numbers you have?
Thanks!
-Greg
-- https://www.dieselpartsdirect.com/zz90054
Isn't that the right model?
If not, I might be able to help...if I knew what I was looking for. Can you post any numbers you have?
Thanks!
-Greg
STB
Guru
Hey Seachaser,
Do you have any numbers? From the current manifold or the engine?
Cheers!
-Greg
Do you have any numbers? From the current manifold or the engine?
Cheers!
-Greg
STB
Guru
Seachaser,
Wait. I just had a thought. What year is this boat?
Do you have a 6.354, e.g. 6.3541, 6.3542, or 6.3543...
...Or do you have a "Range 4" "TW" series 6.3544?
Does your part look like this manicooler?
-- Perkins Manicooler Replacement
I ask because I don't happen to know of any truly weird manifold on the Series 1 - Series 3 6.354 engines.
But, if you've got a "TW" series T6.3544(M), you've got a very different manifold. It is freshwater cooled vs raw water cooled.
I think both Mesa (the place in Arizona) and Greenwater marine do the elbows. Here is Greenwater Marine's info:
-- https://greenwatermarine.com/
I think a bunch of others do the end caps. And, usually, it is just the elbows and endcaps that fail. Maybe you can do just those?
As for the manifold itself....it is, actually, a "little bit" of a unicorn. If S&W can get you one for $2500 -- I think I'd call Mesa to double check the price, and then take S&W's deal in a heartbeat. The rumor I heard is that the original manufacturer (Serck) in England was bought out, merged, re-formed, and hsn't had anything to do with that business line in a long time and that there was never another production supplier.
That water-cooled manifold isn't really a unicorn in that some folks know how to make them and will do it on an as-ordered basis. But, I think that is typically a ~$4-5000 deal. So, it isn't unavailable, or hard to get, just expensive.
But, it is "a bit" of a unicorn in that if Mesa doesn't have one on a shelf, I doubt anyone does. And, last time I asked -- they did not (but they were planning to make a few).
My thinking is that if S&W can do it for $2500, Mesa may have done a run and have a few on the shelf. And, if not, it'll be more expensive for them to make one for you -- and a few more for the shelf.
But, again, without the numbers, I am just guessing here. I'm trying to figure out in my head why this is hard in your case, but so much easier in so many other cases.
The numbers would tell me what you have (a picture might, too)
If that's the case and you can get one for $2500-$2800, that might be a deal. Thoe were made by Serck in England.
Wait. I just had a thought. What year is this boat?
Do you have a 6.354, e.g. 6.3541, 6.3542, or 6.3543...
...Or do you have a "Range 4" "TW" series 6.3544?
Does your part look like this manicooler?
-- Perkins Manicooler Replacement
I ask because I don't happen to know of any truly weird manifold on the Series 1 - Series 3 6.354 engines.
But, if you've got a "TW" series T6.3544(M), you've got a very different manifold. It is freshwater cooled vs raw water cooled.
I think both Mesa (the place in Arizona) and Greenwater marine do the elbows. Here is Greenwater Marine's info:
-- https://greenwatermarine.com/
I think a bunch of others do the end caps. And, usually, it is just the elbows and endcaps that fail. Maybe you can do just those?
As for the manifold itself....it is, actually, a "little bit" of a unicorn. If S&W can get you one for $2500 -- I think I'd call Mesa to double check the price, and then take S&W's deal in a heartbeat. The rumor I heard is that the original manufacturer (Serck) in England was bought out, merged, re-formed, and hsn't had anything to do with that business line in a long time and that there was never another production supplier.
That water-cooled manifold isn't really a unicorn in that some folks know how to make them and will do it on an as-ordered basis. But, I think that is typically a ~$4-5000 deal. So, it isn't unavailable, or hard to get, just expensive.
But, it is "a bit" of a unicorn in that if Mesa doesn't have one on a shelf, I doubt anyone does. And, last time I asked -- they did not (but they were planning to make a few).
My thinking is that if S&W can do it for $2500, Mesa may have done a run and have a few on the shelf. And, if not, it'll be more expensive for them to make one for you -- and a few more for the shelf.
But, again, without the numbers, I am just guessing here. I'm trying to figure out in my head why this is hard in your case, but so much easier in so many other cases.
The numbers would tell me what you have (a picture might, too)
If that's the case and you can get one for $2500-$2800, that might be a deal. Thoe were made by Serck in England.
Brooksie
Guru
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- Island Seeker
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- Willard 36 Sedan
If your current manifold is cast iron, which you haven't told us yet, the Barr manifold will fit. Horizontal, vertical, turbo, or NA. If you do a little searching you will find one for under $400 with studs as I did 2 years ago. Who told you that the Barr was not compatible? Is yours cast iron?
Is your elbow water jacketed or wrapper "lagged"? Is your engine turbo or NA? Horizontal or vertical?
Thanks! Mine is cast iron and natural. The Barr ones appear slightly different and are connected for turbo. Looking at them they appear not compatible, but perhaps someone has modified it to work. Just called Mesa and I’m looking >$1800 for the manifold (stainless manufactured) and aroun $1250 for the elbow.
Perkins 6.354 manifold (Natural)
Okay, hopefully this helps, 'cause a part of me feels like I'm searching for a damn unicorn.
Either way, this is a 1979 6.354 (Natural) Perkins Diesel. The manifold and mixing elbow are shot and subsequently need replacement. This has been very difficult. The ones I've been seeing from Barr appear to be only for Turbo engines. Does it even matter? The others (Stainless fabrication) are very proud of their product. >$3-4K. I just need a bloody manifold! Wild. Has anyone bought and used the Barr design? That price is high, but more reasonable than others I've seen.
Okay, hopefully this helps, 'cause a part of me feels like I'm searching for a damn unicorn.
Either way, this is a 1979 6.354 (Natural) Perkins Diesel. The manifold and mixing elbow are shot and subsequently need replacement. This has been very difficult. The ones I've been seeing from Barr appear to be only for Turbo engines. Does it even matter? The others (Stainless fabrication) are very proud of their product. >$3-4K. I just need a bloody manifold! Wild. Has anyone bought and used the Barr design? That price is high, but more reasonable than others I've seen.Attachments
STB
Guru
Perfect! Let me get back to my office and look up that part. NA and Turbo use different manifolds.
Most people with NA engines use Bowman coolers these days tovkill three birds (manifold, exchanger, header tank) with one stone.
But the one you have should still be available. Let me get to a computer and look
--
Most people with NA engines use Bowman coolers these days tovkill three birds (manifold, exchanger, header tank) with one stone.
But the one you have should still be available. Let me get to a computer and look
--
Thank you so very much!!! Now, since I've recently discovered how to post images, here's a few more. Clearly the mixing elbow is toast as well, but that seems to be considerably easier to locate than the manifold. I figure 30% of what's out there is actually listed on the internet, whereas 70% remains hidden and just waiting to be found. I'm betting on that remaining 70%
Attachments
STB
Guru
Okay. So that is Perkins part #37785630/1, also labelled as 197650/9.
It is the common manifold for the NA Perkins 6.354(M) engines. The Barr model you were seeing in many places isn't the replacement.
To my knowledge, you've got essentially three options.
1) Replace with a cast carbon steel one like the original, if you can find one.
2) Replace with stainless steel (Mesa Marine 525SS) -- $1850.00
3) Replace (it and the heat exchanger and the header tank) with a Bowman Manicooler PE580-3676
When my boat was done in Summer 2016, it was done with the Bowman. The price was $1830.00/each from TAD. I just called them and they quoted me $4400 each, telling me that I needed an install kit. But, they couldn't explain nearly $3000.00 of install kit. So, they care going to call me back and walk me through that part-by-part and dollar by dollar. I'll post again when they do.
Given that the Bowman unit is like the new 6.354 range 4 engines, and that it replaces the heat exchanger, header tank, and manifold all at once, most people go that way, I think.
I don't think the turbo version will physically bolt up, so the Barr cast version is unlikely to be usable.
Cheers!
-Greg
It is the common manifold for the NA Perkins 6.354(M) engines. The Barr model you were seeing in many places isn't the replacement.
To my knowledge, you've got essentially three options.
1) Replace with a cast carbon steel one like the original, if you can find one.
2) Replace with stainless steel (Mesa Marine 525SS) -- $1850.00
3) Replace (it and the heat exchanger and the header tank) with a Bowman Manicooler PE580-3676
When my boat was done in Summer 2016, it was done with the Bowman. The price was $1830.00/each from TAD. I just called them and they quoted me $4400 each, telling me that I needed an install kit. But, they couldn't explain nearly $3000.00 of install kit. So, they care going to call me back and walk me through that part-by-part and dollar by dollar. I'll post again when they do.
Given that the Bowman unit is like the new 6.354 range 4 engines, and that it replaces the heat exchanger, header tank, and manifold all at once, most people go that way, I think.
I don't think the turbo version will physically bolt up, so the Barr cast version is unlikely to be usable.
Cheers!
-Greg
From $1830 to $4400? Well, that's certainly a price increase. Supply and demand at its worst. If push comes to shove, the Mesa Marine design seems to be the safest bet.
BTW, $3000 install kit?! Unbelievable. They're jacking up these prices faster than pharmaceuticals.
BTW, $3000 install kit?! Unbelievable. They're jacking up these prices faster than pharmaceuticals.
