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Old 06-17-2014, 11:45 PM   #21
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They get their lube from the diesel. I had to replace my stbd pump due to leaking seals that the mechanic blamed on ULSD. Not sure if it's true or not. The port side is working fine. I bought a rebuilt one from the local Perkins truck shop. That plus the labor was around $1500. YMMV
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Old 06-18-2014, 01:20 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xsbank View Post
Depends if the neutral switch is connected to the fuel shutoff or the cranking system.
How would that work with a neutral switch on the fuel shutoff? Shift into neutral and the fuel shutoff kills the engine? I think the idea is to keep you from starting in anything but neutral. Can't figure out how it would work as you described.

My Perkins has the neutral switch on the starter. Never seen one with a neutral switch connected to a fuel shutoff solenoid.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:29 AM   #23
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The Simms pump on my Fords has oil in the bottom but the fuel actually lubricates the pistons that pump the diesel fuel. As time goes on I'm getting more diesel in the oil when I change it and I attribute that to ULSD. One engine is almost pure diesel after 50 hrs.

My GMC has gone through at least 10 IP's since they started removing sulphur but as far as red dye, they went straight to ULSD and skipped LSD which was the worse. With the ULSD the IP"s are lasting around three times longer than the LSD. This tells me we will see these old mechanical IP's fail in our boats as a result.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:13 AM   #24
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Local diesel pump shops can usually overhaul IPs. Pump shops are everywhere.
Are you absolutely certain there is not some other filter or screen somewhere??
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Old 06-18-2014, 12:03 PM   #25
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The fuel shutoff is something I've seen but I can't think of how it would work either- latching relay?

I think the failure has to be logical and is likely a simple cause. A starter, fuel and air... Starter obviously works but is it spinning fast? Air filter/air intake plugged? Exhaust system collapsed? Fuel lever linkage slipped? An air leak in the fuel? Lift pump fail? Fuel shutoff fail? Plugged fuel filter? Are you putting unburned fuel in the water? There should be lots if you have a fuel supply and none if it's blocked.
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Old 06-18-2014, 04:46 PM   #26
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Bilgewater- Thanks for the post regarding Perkins supplier. I looked at the site and became so alarmed as to send an email. There is NO INDICATION THEY HANDLE 4-154 parts! I have been hearing in the abstract that 4-154 parts are rare or non-existence in may applications. So- I asked if the 4-236 will fit the same foot print as the 4-154 with the thought of keeping an eye out for a rebuilt to replace the current 4-154.
That being said, if any on the forum have access to what the think is a reliable supplier of such to provide a address or contact for future requirements it will be much appreciated.
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Old 06-18-2014, 05:49 PM   #27
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bayview - Yup, certain. The manual shows nothing relating to another filter in the pump. My diesel specialist also confirmed this. His shop was looking for a rebuilt unit someone had on the shelf. Found one. In England. They are taking my pump to a local shop they use for overhauls. Should have it back in two days. I'm going to replace both lift pumps as well. I'll trust that the other pump will hold up for another year or so. The boat account has been taking a beating this month.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:43 PM   #28
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Thanks for sharing the information. I need to talk to my diesel mechanic before I take my Gulfstar from Maryland to the New Jersey shore.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:49 PM   #29
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I recently have had an almost identical experience with my port-side 4.236, but just got a different diagnosis. Wasn't "at sea" at the time, but at the dock a couple of weeks ago doing a routine filter change...

While I've always changed the Racor filter at the tank, I have never had to change the CAV filter on the engine myself since I've owned Sandpiper. I changed both filters, ran the bleeding process. She started and ran for about 15 seconds and quit. Perplexed, I bled the engine again, with no luck. She would turn over fine, bleed fine, but not light off. After attempting to bleed it myself several more times, I called the pros.

Just talked to the mechanic and he said I'd installed the wrong O-ring at the top of the filter canister, which blocked the fuel when it came under pressure as the engine tried to fire. He swapped the O-ring, bled the engine and she fired right up. I guess while awkwardly leaning over and around the port side of the engine while installing the filter, I never noticed that it wasn't seating properly. While I feel like an idiot, he assured me he sees this a couple times a year when folks mess with a CAV for the first time.

I still feel like an idiot... but it's a lot cheaper than a new pump!

Cheers!
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:03 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al View Post
Bilgewater- Thanks for the post regarding Perkins supplier. I looked at the site and became so alarmed as to send an email. There is NO INDICATION THEY HANDLE 4-154 parts! I have been hearing in the abstract that 4-154 parts are rare or non-existence in may applications. So- I asked if the 4-236 will fit the same foot print as the 4-154 with the thought of keeping an eye out for a rebuilt to replace the current 4-154.
That being said, if any on the forum have access to what the think is a reliable supplier of such to provide a address or contact for future requirements it will be much appreciated.
Al-Ketchikan (Bridge to Nowhere) Alaska
Have you checked with Trans Atlantic Diesels? Also known as TAD? I have the same engines 4-154's.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:45 PM   #31
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Thanks Billy!!! Yes I have them on bookmark and no I had not sought from them any information. This thread has been somewhat an eye opener. I had always thought ALL Perkins although considered passe in terms of modern fuel burn clean up regulations, that like GM 671, parts were in every back yard. To find that my and your engines are dinosaurs before their time (MHO) in terms of simple part acquirement is surely disturbing causing me to be proactive and seek out an alternate engine (4-236) complete as a drop in if that is feasible.
Again thanks to the fellows who have given perspective advise to the question Bilgewater presented. This forum rocks for information.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:58 PM   #32
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Billy!!! Heck with it! I sent the following to TAD:

In the TrawlerForum.com you are given as a source regarding parts for the Perkins 4-154 marine engine. I scan your home page and note no indication that 4-154 is a subject as a market item.
Do you maintain a supply of common 4-154 parts? Do you occasionally have a rebuild 4-154 engine for sale? and finally, will the 4-236 fit the existing footprint of the 4-154 in terms of fitting the engine bed points? I have measured my current 4-154 and find the width at 22 inches and the height at 21 1/2 inches. I am limited to under 23 inches in height were a different engine choice made.
Thanks are given with this inquiry which I am posting to the TrawlerForum as an informational submission.

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Old 06-19-2014, 09:14 AM   #33
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I believe that the 4-236M can be used as a replacement for the 4-154M. The reason I say this is my boat a 1976 Gulfstar came with either engine. Borg 71C's will bolt to either engine as well. I spoke to TAD once I found out my vessel was incorrectly advertised (the surveyor caught it) and they told me they can get most parts needed for the 4-154M.
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:16 PM   #34
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Thanks Billy!!! Just back from a three day outing. Didn't notice any response to my email from TAD as of this posting
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:21 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilgewater View Post
bayview - Yup, certain. The manual shows nothing relating to another filter in the pump. My diesel specialist also confirmed this. His shop was looking for a rebuilt unit someone had on the shelf. Found one. In England. They are taking my pump to a local shop they use for overhauls. Should have it back in two days. I'm going to replace both lift pumps as well. I'll trust that the other pump will hold up for another year or so. The boat account has been taking a beating this month.
Did the lift pumps solve your problems? I'm wondering there is another thread where some members are using inexpensive pumps available at NAPA, it seems like these could work in our boats.
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Old 06-21-2014, 08:17 PM   #36
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Here are some 4.236 dimensions:

If you can't read this one, PM me with your email and I'll send you a clearer pdf that doesn't seem to load here.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Perkins 4_236 brochure data.pdf (406.4 KB, 37 views)
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:55 PM   #37
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Thanks FlyWright- the measurements are exact for the two models. Not wanting thread drift I intend to start a new thread discussion and asking for opinion on making such a engine change.
Regards to all for an interesting thread here.

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Old 06-21-2014, 11:56 PM   #38
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Whoops, sorry for the font size- Al
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Old 06-21-2014, 11:57 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Al View Post
Thanks FlyWright- the measurements are exact for the two models. Not wanting thread drift I intend to start a new thread discussion and asking for opinion on making such a engine change.
Regards to all for an interesting thread here.

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Old 06-22-2014, 02:44 AM   #40
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When removing the pump for repair make 2 fine indelible marks, 1 on the block and 1 on the pump, when you come to refit it'll save bother retiming. It looks a bit fiddly but just take it step at a time, if there's any Massey Ferguson or JCB dealers near you ask who refurbs their pumps as it'll be cheaper than a 'Marine' agency.
Ask also for a new gasket to fit between engine Block & Pump.
Unless you have an electric fuel pump you will know by now what a pain (in the finger) it is bleeding the system, especially on a hot engine.
There's a simple mod that changes the filter from a split canister to a 'spin on' type with a large push button on top which makes changing filters/bleeding child's play, it costs around 55.00 (per engine) from ASAP Supplies in the UK.
If you require details/part no's etc. contact me and I'll send them on to you.
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