Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-05-2012, 10:24 AM   #81
Senior Member
 
City: Madisonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Nirvana
Vessel Model: 41' Litton
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 142
Boatpoker, thanks for the link, you're right on. This whole discussion is a good example of what we've become in this country. No one now is responsible his own actions. It's every man for himself. Maybe that explains "Ksanders - Alaska" outlook. I guess we in the lower 48 may have to endure the rude, inconsiderate, and uncivilized. But to me, it's not a question of who can afford the best laywer or buy the biggest boat. It's who we are and how we choose to interact with our fellow man.
__________________
Advertisement

Dixie Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 10:29 AM   #82
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Yesterday I passed under a CSX railroad draw bridge. Signs on both sides said "You are responsible for your wake."
__________________

rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 10:45 AM   #83
Senior Member
 
City: Madisonville
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Nirvana
Vessel Model: 41' Litton
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 142
I see those signs everywhere I boat. I wonder what they mean?
Dixie Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 10:47 AM   #84
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhiggins View Post
I see those signs everywhere I boat. I wonder what they mean?
You have to go back and read the entire thread.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 11:51 AM   #85
TF Site Team
 
ksanders's Avatar
 
City: SEWARD ALASKA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: LISAS WAY
Vessel Model: BAYLINER 4788
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhiggins View Post
Boatpoker, thanks for the link, you're right on. This whole discussion is a good example of what we've become in this country. No one now is responsible his own actions. It's every man for himself. Maybe that explains "Ksanders - Alaska" outlook. I guess we in the lower 48 may have to endure the rude, inconsiderate, and uncivilized. But to me, it's not a question of who can afford the best laywer or buy the biggest boat. It's who we are and how we choose to interact with our fellow man.
Actually your comments lead me to believe that you do not hold people responsible for their own actions. Your comments lead me to believe that you would rather blame the other guy for events such as wakes that are a normal part of boating in uncontrolled waters.

Specifically as a captain you are responsible for insuring the safety of your boat and your passengers. Part of that responsibility is to be prepared for waves, wakes etc... You can attempt to shift that responsibility to the rest of the boating community if you'd like. The problem is that tactic hasn't worked in either the criminal or civil arenas.

Actually the only place that tactic seems to work is when posted on the internet as a way to draw sympathy and do a little name calling as a way to make ourselves feel better about failing in our duties as a captain.
__________________
Kevin Sanders
Bayliner 4788
Seward, Alaska
www.mvlisasway.com
ksanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 01:20 PM   #86
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhiggins View Post
Boatpoker, thanks for the link, you're right on. This whole discussion is a good example of what we've become in this country. No one now is responsible his own actions. It's every man for himself. Maybe that explains "Ksanders - Alaska" outlook. I guess we in the lower 48 may have to endure the rude, inconsiderate, and uncivilized. But to me, it's not a question of who can afford the best laywer or buy the biggest boat. It's who we are and how we choose to interact with our fellow man.
no need for the ak, just kick back, sip a toonie. Them types aint worth getting rilled up about.
Alaska??/ Naw, uall got skitters big as eagles! I'll stick to the water and the back country.
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 02:04 PM   #87
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,714
Re: kasanders and Marin,
Basically I agree w you both. But boaters that don't know how to handle wakes and such will be subject to the laws of physics and thrashed around or even capsized. If we as a nation were to react to the most easily offended we would be jailed for going over 5 knots. I've had people on my boat ask me if I would or why I didn't slow down for those kayaks. I probably told them that if the kayaks venture into waters that has boats of all sizes underway at typical and usual cruising speeds they should be prepared to deal w all the boat wakes that typically come to pass in those waters. Whining about it is just whining.

Once and a while I get caught off guard and get waked good w our round bottom boat but usually I consider it my fault for not being aware enough to see the wake coming. I have, however rode over a 50' yachts wake going over 15 knots in a canoe. That one I took broadside on purpose. Just rolling one's hips works wonders broadside in a paddle boat.

How QI usually deal w wakes is to enter them at about 20 to 30 degrees depending on the distance from crest to crest and the wake height. Shorter c to c should be run at shallower angles of perhaps 5 to 15 degrees and longer c to c would be best at 25 to 45 degrees and if even bigger head on. The idea is to put a wave under your stbd bow and your port stern or your port bow and your stbd stern so as to balance the lift of the waves side to side. Every wake you take should be somewhat of an experiment to see what angle works best for what wakes.

When a boat p asses you very close if you're on top of the situation you'll see him coming and move away from him so you can turn toward him and pick your angle to ride his wake. When a boat goes by you very close at speed you have a good reason to whine and then RTF's approach is in order. Ther'e are times that all the skill, experience and skills won't produce a safe or comfortable outcome. And ther'e are large numbers of rude and thoughtless boaters out there but usually picking the best angle will take care of almost all comfort and safety considerations.
Nomad Willy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 02:21 PM   #88
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Re: kasanders and Marin,
Basically I agree w you both. But boaters that don't know how to handle wakes and such will be subject to the laws of physics and thrashed around or even capsized. If we as a nation were to react to the most easily offended we would be jailed for going over 5 knots. I've had people on my boat ask me if I would or why I didn't slow down for those kayaks. I probably told them that if the kayaks venture into waters that has boats of all sizes underway at typical and usual cruising speeds they should be prepared to deal w all the boat wakes that typically come to pass in those waters. Whining about it is just whining.

Once and a while I get caught off guard and get waked good w our round bottom boat but usually I consider it my fault for not being aware enough to see the wake coming. I have, however rode over a 50' yachts wake going over 15 knots in a canoe. That one I took broadside on purpose. Just rolling one's hips works wonders broadside in a paddle boat.

How QI usually deal w wakes is to enter them at about 20 to 30 degrees depending on the distance from crest to crest and the wake height. Shorter c to c should be run at shallower angles of perhaps 5 to 15 degrees and longer c to c would be best at 25 to 45 degrees and if even bigger head on. The idea is to put a wave under your stbd bow and your port stern or your port bow and your stbd stern so as to balance the lift of the waves side to side. Every wake you take should be somewhat of an experiment to see what angle works best for what wakes.

When a boat p asses you very close if you're on top of the situation you'll see him coming and move away from him so you can turn toward him and pick your angle to ride his wake. When a boat goes by you very close at speed you have a good reason to whine and then RTF's approach is in order. Ther'e are times that all the skill, experience and skills won't produce a safe or comfortable outcome. And ther'e are large numbers of rude and thoughtless boaters out there but usually picking the best angle will take care of almost all comfort and safety considerations.

Geez....all i wanna do is go out there and have fun and u r making it sound like a physics class. Guess I'll cut class and just pour on the steam! YAHOO..full steam ahead.......opps....were did that duck blind come from?

all kidding aside. Well said my friend
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2012, 02:46 PM   #89
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
.

My motto... being a good seaman means you are responsible for EXPECTING a wake at any time and being prepared. While they may be uncomfortable...they should not be damaging or dangerous....or you need to buy a different boat...[/QUOTE]


Or a Motorcycle.
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 01:31 AM   #90
TF Site Team
 
Pineapple Girl's Avatar
 
City: San Mateo, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Pineapple Girl II
Vessel Model: PT 35
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,165
I think we're talking more when the boat passing had a choice that they could have left you some room and didn't, or if there was no room they could have slowed down and didn't. At least those are the incidents that annoy me. Luckily few and far between. I can think of two memorable incidents where we boat now and in both cases the boats had the burgee of a very expensive yacht club with an exclusive private island. Left the impression that they were too important to be polite to the little people. We were certainly never on any danger, it's just annoying when people are flat out rude.

We've also been shocked at how close people in little ski boats will pass us. One time I thought a guy was going to be flung from his boat. I just watched wide eyed as they crawled up our ass then cut through our wake just a few feet off our stern. The passenger got flung around big time. No clue why they did that as there was actually a fair bit of room (by delta standards) at that point in the river so they could have gone well around us. These were older guys, didn't look like thrill seekers but I guess who knows. Don't judge a book... and all that.
__________________
-Jennifer
Pineapple Girl II 1984 PT 35
San Francisco Bay Area
www.pineapple-girl.blogspot.com
Pineapple Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 01:55 AM   #91
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pineapple Girl View Post
... I can think of two memorable incidents where we boat now and in both cases the boats had the burgee of a very expensive yacht club with an exclusive private island. Left the impression that they were too important to be polite to the little people. ... .
Would those be "St. Frank's" club members? (Club claims to have over 2000 members, but doubt the majority have boats in the Bay Area.) Have noted members of another club (RYC) not displaying lights or making sounds during limited visibility. Nevertheless, doubt they're worse than the typical boater. I believe the vast majority of boaters are well intentioned or at least believe in self/property preservation but perhaps ignorant, club associated or not.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 02:14 AM   #92
Guru
 
Hendo78's Avatar
 
City: Perth
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: M/V SOLSTICE
Vessel Model: Hendo "Special"
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post

Someone could be subject to civil liability.

Law and Disorder
What is it with Americans and suing people hahaha. (Just playing fellas. Don't get all huffy.)

Sent from my iPad using Forum Runner
__________________
***I use and recommend ANCHOR RIGHT Anchors***
Hendo78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 03:05 AM   #93
Guru
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Vessel Name: Anastasia III
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,716
Because we get in too much trouble for beatin' the hell out of them nowdays.
Keith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 03:06 AM   #94
Guru
 
Hendo78's Avatar
 
City: Perth
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: M/V SOLSTICE
Vessel Model: Hendo "Special"
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Because we get in too much trouble for beatin' the hell out of them nowdays.
Hahaha

Sent from iPad using Forum Runner
__________________
***I use and recommend ANCHOR RIGHT Anchors***
Hendo78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 06:20 AM   #95
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperdude View Post
.

My motto... being a good seaman means you are responsible for EXPECTING a wake at any time and being prepared. While they may be uncomfortable...they should not be damaging or dangerous....or you need to buy a different boat....
So you're point is that the guy with the biggest boat is entitled to wake all the other boats? That there's no place for 18' bowriders or center consoles on the water?

That because a guy in a 40' sportfish or sport cruiser is ignorant or selfish enough to throw a big wake that I need to buy a 50' boat?

I'm going to buy me a paint ball gun.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 06:34 AM   #96
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
So you're point is that the guy with the biggest boat is entitled to wake all the other boats? That there's no place for 18' bowriders or center consoles on the water?

That because a guy in a 40' sportfish or sport cruiser is ignorant or selfish enough to throw a big wake that I need to buy a 50' boat?

I'm going to buy me a paint ball gun.
That's actually my quote and your interpretation isn't even close to what it says.

It says you and your crew should have good situational awareness and a squared away boat, prepared for what happens to all of us sooner or later on the water.

NO WHERE does it discuss boat size....
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 06:41 AM   #97
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,530
We carry a 12G BLANK starting canon.
It uses black powder shells which are far louder than modern smokeless powder.

When we see a out of control fool running us down , we fire a round to insure that he notices us.

Slows most down to human speeds.

On the AICW , many times a fool will be cursed on VHF for hours as he runs by the slow boats.

Even easier then, to know who is knowledgable and who is not responsible.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 06:56 AM   #98
TF Site Team
 
dwhatty's Avatar
 
City: Home Port: Buck's Harbor, Maine
Country: USA
Vessel Name: "Emily Anne"
Vessel Model: 2001 Island Gypsy 32 Europa (Hull #146)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,733
Source: The Bangor Daily News (Maine) July 2001



Schooner captain fires gun in PWC incident

A schooner captain fired an antique pistol in an effort to warn off a personal watercraft (PWC) operator during an incident last week that is being investigated by authorities in Maine.

The Maine Marine Patrol and the US Coast Guard have questioned Captain Neal Parker, who is the owner of the 20.4-metre, commercially registered schooner Wendameen based in Rockland, Maine, according to a report in The Bangor Daily News. Ryan Marves, the personal watercraft operator, was also questioned.

According to the newspaper, Parker called the Coast Guard to report the PWC operator after Parker had fired an old gun loaded with a blank cartridge. Parker claims he fired one shot, but Marves reported that three shots were fired.

Parker also said, according to the paper, that he had pointed the gun at the water, while Marves claims it was aimed in his direction. Parker said that the PWC operator was maneuvering erratically at a high rate of speed in the congested waters of Pulpit Harbor on North Haven island, according to the paper. Parker said he fired the gun as a warning signal because he said the PWC was scaring his guests and he was afraid an accident might happen.

Rules of the road?

Parker said he had the right to fire a gun under US Coast Guard navigation Rule 7: "Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision exists. If there is any doubt, such risk shall be deemed to exist." Parker added that Rule 37 states that a gun fired at intervals of one minute may be used as a distress signal.

The Marine Patrol indicated the matter may be referred to the district attorney's office or a grand jury for prosecution, said the report in the paper. Parker could be subject to criminal penalties and could also lose his US Coast Guard license, while Marves could be cited for operating at excessive speed or recklessly.

Here's a link to the USCG decision in the matter.
dwhatty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 07:01 AM   #99
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,913
And it's been upheld many times that a gun with blanks or toy gun/paintball gun pointed in your direction can be construed as a "real" threat and you can freely return fire with "real" bullets.....
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2012, 12:24 PM   #100
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
We carry a 12G BLANK starting canon.
It uses black powder shells which are far louder than modern smokeless powder.

When we see a out of control fool running us down , we fire a round to insure that he notices us.


Slows most down to human speeds.

On the AICW , many times a fool will be cursed on VHF for hours as he runs by the slow boats.

Even easier then, to know who is knowledgable and who is not responsible.

Uh- that's what a horn is for....
__________________

__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012