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Old 01-12-2013, 09:41 PM   #1
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Passagemaking question???

Hello all,
For several months I have been researching and flipping through Yachtworld trying to figure out what boat I need and will possibly purchase this Spring. I think that I may have narrowed it down. I need a comfortable liveaboard with 4 or 5 staterooms (kids). I would like to be at 65' as to be manageable. I definitely need a boat that I can one day cross oceans in. I do not want to upgrade later when my kids are off to college and I'm ready to travel the world. I need something affordable. I think that a 65' Hat or a 66' Choey Lee might be the way to go for me.

My question is: What exactly makes a boat a LRC. I noticed that the LRC's have a greater fuel capacity and water capacity. Is that it?

Also, can I refit a larger tank in a motor yacht to make it long range?

Does one actually need a "LRC" for world travel or is the larger holding tank just a convenience while purchasingand storing fuel at a good price?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:55 PM   #2
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You don't mention budget, but if there isn't one get yourself a Nordhavn and be done with it.

But a much more important question than "what's a capable, long-range, ocean-crossing boat?" is how much do you know about boating? Any boating.

Have you been boating in smaller boats for years and you're ready to move up to a bigger one? Do you understand weather and currents and navigation and all the stuff the folks on this forum spend forever arguing about? Do you know how to maneuver a cruising boat when the wind's blowing and the current's going the wrong way?

Or, is this big-boat, passagemaking thing something that sounds intriguing and you're trying to figure out how to get into it but you don't have much of a boating background?

It's very hard to offer any meaningful suggestions about what an ideal boat might be without knowing the capabilities and experience of the person asking the question.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:03 PM   #3
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Galaxygirl, you have cooked up a tall order. What makes a long range cruiser? Since you are talking about crossing oceans, it seams like you are really talking about a passagemaker. A 65' Hatteras would probably fit your size requirements, but probably not be the boat for world travel. I would think about a 65' Nordhavn for what you described. You have not mentioned budget, so that can be a big factor. At any rate getting a deal done by spring would be very fast.

Your post is one the more interesting. Please let us know your progress.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:09 PM   #4
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Marin,
Thanks for the reply.
To answer your qestion. I am a total newbie. My kids are still in gradeschool so I figure that I can start with hiring a captain, working my way up to short trips, then longer, then maybe hire a captain again for a very long trip until one day after several years of practice I will be ready for ocean crossing. I'm in absolutely no rush and realize that I have tons to learn. I want to use the boat as a liveaboard for now, but I don't want to have to sell and upgrade later.
I wish that I had a Nordhaven budget, but unfortunately not, unless I get lucky and hit the lottery, which would be very lucky, considering I dont play
I would like to spend under 400k.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:33 PM   #5
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With that budget I think you should reduce the number of staterooms. Although you didn't say how many kids either. Landside a bedroom for each kid is achievable, but on the water one for the boys and one for the girls, one for parents is realistic.

Then have a few different areas for everyone to utilize so you are not always in close proximity to each other: a good layout will be paramount for a family liveaboard. A raised pilothouse boat (Ocean Alexander such as mine, or a De Fever, Fleming among others) will do this for you, although only some have third staterooms - depended on what the original owner wanted. Bear in mind these semi-displacement hulls are primarily coastal cruisers.

You might be better off with a displacement single engine boat such as one of the big Kadey Krogens or a Selene.

For your budget (assuming some is allocated for R&M) it will likely be an older boat, so expect to have some significant repairs and upgrades.

Any raised PH boats in the 48-60 ft range are worth checking out - shortlist those nearby and take a look at them as many different ones as you can. Given it's going to be some time before your extended cruising, you can probably spread the R&M out over some years, and if you have the skills as well as the time to do it, you will save 50% of the cost of having a yard do it for you.

Good luck, keep us posted!
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:42 PM   #6
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Okay, well, 400k is, in my opinion, not going to get you the kind of boat your stated objectives indicate you need. Or if it does it will be in such unreliable condition it would be questionable if it could get across the harbor let along an ocean without having a hell of a lot of money poured into it to bring it up to snuff.

Combining your stated budget and your current lack of experience, I would suggest you are not going about this in the smartest way. Since you don't want to do the long trip thing until the kids are grown and gone it's not like you're up against the clock here.

So I'm thinking that the smart thing to do is put the long-range, big boat thing on the back burner and get a smaller coastal cruising boat that will accommodate the people you need to accommodate but will not eat up your $400k budget plus another $400k to get the boat where it needs to be for true long range voyaging.

Spend $200k-$250k for a boat that you can start using and learning with on a local basis. I don't know where you are located but if it's the east coast there is the ICW and all its associated waterways that from what I can tell is an ideal environment to start figuring out what this boating thing is all about. If you're in the Pacific Northwest the inside waters of Puget Sound, lower BC, and the Inside Passage provide a fabulous environment for boating.

Boating, perhaps more than anything else including aviation, is a never-ending expense. Buying the boat is actually the easy part, at least financially. After that, the ownership costs just keep coming and some of them can be pretty big whacks to the wallet.

I grew up in Hawaii and I've checked the box next to open ocean boating. Not long range boating by any means. But forty miles off the north coast of Oahu is the same as 400 miles off the north coast of Oahu in terms of what you encounter out there. And what I learned is that you need a hell of a good boat, and a hell of a lot of experience to carry it off successfully.

Now I'm "coastal cruising" and it offers every bit the interest, challenge, and reward of being out on the open ocean. In fact for me, much, much more. So don't make the mistake that "big water" cruising is where it's at and the coastal stuff is for pansies.

Considering where you're at on this journey right now, which is right at the first step of it, something that might make the most sense as a first step is to charter a boat for a weekend or a week. You can charter one with a skipper to keep you out of trouble and it will become your first lesson, as well as helping you determine if you really will like this sort of thing.

But I'm a big believer in learning to walk before you can run. It's all fun and everything you learn along the way will help build a solid foundation that will support you if you carry on into the big water, long distance thing. And the nice thing about boats and boating is that the "walking" is just as fun and rewarding as the "running."
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:56 PM   #7
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Didn't this same poster give this subject a good run a year or so ago? Maybe it was on Yacht Forums -----------
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:01 AM   #8
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There are older long range boats/trawler that might fit what you are looking for,1990 and ptior. To cross an ocean the boat must have the stability, fuel capacity, fuel efficient e.gine, and be equipped. There are more commercial boats than pleasure boats, so also look a commercial boats. I know of several older off brand boat/trawler. Many of the boats are built by yards that build commercial boats.

I think it was here, buts its a hell of a lot better than anchors and/or single vrs. twin.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:03 AM   #9
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It does sound familiar although I don't remember it as being that long ago. But there are a lot of people out there who harbor this sort of dream.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:04 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Didn't this same poster give this subject a good run a year or so ago? Maybe it was on Yacht Forums -----------
It was here last September Tom. This subject was raised at Cruiser Forum too.
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Old 01-13-2013, 12:10 AM   #11
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Sunchaser,
I'm with you this has appeared before and got a good airing.
But with that in mind i am with marin.
don't chase the big boat just yet, go ccoastal cruising on the weekends and on holidays. get a good boat, possibly something in the 48/50 ft range raised pilot house with good fuel capacity and smaller engines (get used to going at 8 knots)
Get a skiipper if need be but do a course on boat handling and basic navigation, learn engine and mechanical basic skills, you will need these offshore.
Start to plan and learn and then when you are ready you will know what boat is required and what you want.
Don't get led up the path for a semi planing hull like a Fleming etc for off shore cruising, lovely boats but wrong for the job.
Keep on learning.
maybe it was on Yacht Forum !!!
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:37 AM   #12
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I also recall seeing a similar thread somewhere from GalaxyGirl, maybe Cruiser's Forum. I will go with Marin on this one. Our requirements were close to the same, although for obvious reasons I would recommend a Krogen rather than the Nordhavn! I have spent most of my life on or around the water and knew exactly what I wanted. The fact of the matter is, if you want a boat that is trans-oceanic capable, and in good condition, you need to be prepared to spend at least low 7 figures. You can find some lder capable boats in the $600K range, but generally you will have to spend a substantial amount upgrading them.

But the other fact of the matter is-how many crossings are you liable to make, really? We know we will probably make one round-trip across the Atlantic and that will pretty much be it. So, could we have done with less? Probably so, we could ship anything across if we wanted. Think hard about what you really, really want to accomplish and get the boat that fits.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:51 AM   #13
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Click on any posters name, click on "find More post..."

Kind of strange the same person would came back not even referencing the past advice.....
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:57 AM   #14
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Most marine motorists will use some of the many print sources to plan a passage in the most modest weather and times of the year.

The old sailors avoided the :Horse Latitudes" , but for a power boat its perfect.

The problem always is what if the weather guesser fails and you end up in a modest 50-60K storm .

SCANTLINGS , how strong the basic boat , and all the parts are , and how well they are fitted together is the key.

Simply go visit any of the local fish boats that go out and STAY out to work.

Compared to most yacht "passagemakers" you will find vastly heavier construction , smaller windows and a much much lower vessel profile.

The easiest is to look at the fwd facing or PH glass.

If its 3/4 or better its for the ocean ,,, 1/4 and huge in area , you decide what a comber climbing on board will do for your day.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:11 AM   #15
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Didn't this same poster give this subject a good run a year or so ago? Maybe it was on Yacht Forums -----------
No, actually, it was a different question that I gave a run. I was trying to figure out, over, the summer I think, whether to get a sailboat, trawler or both. I was also trying to figure out what size I would need and the ins and outs of living marina side for a while. I have gotten past most of that stuff. Now I am fine tuning some of my research, as the time goes near, to how much range I need in the long run.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:23 AM   #16
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Kind of strange the same person would came back not even referencing the past advice.....
Again, with all due respect, this is a different question.
I figured that I wouldn't have to reference, because most active posters would remember me anyhow and those that don't or weren't around, can always view past posts if they choose.

and, by the way, I took all of the advice that I was given then on forums. I chucked my idea of 2 boats and decided to go with 1 trawler. I also downsized significantly from 90' to 65' as a direct influence of good advice that I was given on forums.

Now I am trying to figure out the range thing. Last night, I didn't even realize that it was possible to "ship your ship" across the ocean. I'm actually not that keen on making a long dangerous journey like that at all, but I LOVE the idea of one day, having the option of exploring other far away places in my boat. So this was a great discovery for me. This is why I appreciate the feedback that I get on forums, because folks open your eyes to ideas and possibilities that you had no clue existed. That's why in my very first post on this thread I made it clear that I have been researching boats for a while now and trying to narrow it down.
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Old 01-13-2013, 08:35 AM   #17
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The Hatteras LRC hulls are full displacement, and they were equipped either 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder Detroit 2 strokes. Big beefy hulls, large fuel capacity...but as FF commented...not sure how sturdy the deckhouse would be in a blue water, nasty weather scenario. There's an LRC web site...might want to check there. I'd think a '58 would meet your space objectives. I'd want stabilizers. Much more "shippy" boat than a Cheoy Lee. A '65 Hatteras LRC is a surprisingly big boat.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:56 AM   #18
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Assuming your offshore cruising dream to far away places is real and not fantasy:
  • An old LRC or Cheoy Lee is not your best bet for foreign travel. You will still have big weather/poor forecasts to deal with and neither of these vessels are suitable for these conditions except in the hands of a pro. Most of these vessels have been kept in NA with docking in mind and not blue water cruising. The costs to get them ocean ready would be very high.
  • Outside NA power is different so the vessel will need to capable for dual cycle and voltage.
  • Very few "trawlers" (low fuel burn and lots of fuel capacity) at 60' -70' have been designed and built in quantity in the past 20 years to be blue water capable. For space and brand look at Nordhavn, Cape Horn, Outer Reef - a few others. For sure look for an Ocean Rated vessel. Locate and pick the brain of an owner of one of these vessels.
  • Join the Nordhavn Dreamers group
  • Look for a Nordhavn 62' 4 stateroom model. Most are in very good shape as the owners usually take care of their vessels.
  • Shipping a vessel to a far way place does not allow you to get past seamaship skills or having a capable boat. Put this notion in the back burner if you or your vessel cannot pass muster.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:26 AM   #19
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Hatteras LRCs have circumnavigated and a few more have crossed the Atlantic and back. Frankly, they are more robust boats than your typical Nordhavn. They will offer much more usable living space for a family. But realize that maintenance and up keep are a function of age and condition, not the purchase price of the boat.

But all that is tertiary at this point. Before you buy a boat, charter a variety of, in your case, captained boats. See how you like the life style. Learn how to boat. Find out what features and ergonomics are important to you and your family. This will also be much cheaper than owning while you are still working and only boating part time. It will also vastly lower the odds of making a very expensive mistake in boat selection, including the distinct possibility you might not like cruising Then, In my opinion, buy a boat that fits your needs now, not for some "possibly maybe someday I hope, I think" scenario.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:02 AM   #20
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[QUOTE=caltexflanc;126296]Hatteras LRCs have circumnavigated and a few more have crossed the Atlantic and back. Frankly, they are more robust boats than your typical Nordhavn. QUOTE]

Caltexflan, please note I said "In the hands of a pro." GG is hardly that. I'd not recommend to a novice that he cross the world's oceans in a old flushdeck LRC vs a newer and well tested proven passagemaker. I own a DF that could do the Atlantic too, but I'd much prefer a Rated proven blue water vessel.

I take it you have cruised on a typical (whatever that is) Nordhavn and viewed their construction and stability calculations in detail? In what way is an LRC more robust than say a typical 57' Nordhavn, just name me one and I'll demur.
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