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Old 02-10-2008, 08:48 PM   #21
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RE: Participation

I like reading this forum. I'm a semi reg on PMM, but have somehow migrated over here. This is (I think) my 3rd post here. I log in every few days.

On the other hand, when I have a boat problem, which is frequent, I post and check it evry few hours.

I don;t see much difference from here to PMM, honestly.
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Old 02-10-2008, 09:02 PM   #22
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RE: Participation

Capnwill,

Why did you stop in Apalach? Are you still there?

We are in Carrabelle. I've noticied that there seem to be more people from our small little backwater part of the world on TF than are on PMM.

Then again, that is JusT My Opinion. Your mileage may vary. LOL.
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Old 02-29-2008, 12:12 PM   #23
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RE: Participation

Eric:*

I think you have introduced an interesting topic.* I'll offer my thoughts, as one who does not post often on this forum, on why some may not participate frequently on forums such as this.*

My interest in boating is in being on the boat and going places.* I have boated on the West Coast, (British Columbia and Southeast Alaska) since retiring in 1995.* I started with a little Bayliner 2452 which got me as far as Port Hardy, but was forced to move up to a Commander 30 in 2001, when the Admiral announced she was NOT going around Cape Caution in a 24 foot boat.* What a shame!* The forced move to the 30 got us to Southeast over 148 days and 3500 miles in 2002; toured every mile of the Southern Mainland Coast of B.C. from the Peace Arch to Cape Caution over 3200 miles and 103 days in 2003; and completed our tour of the Mainland Coast of Central and North B.C. waters from Cape Caution to Stewart, B.C. and Hyder, AK with a solo 75 day, 3000 mile trip in 2007.**

I checked this forum out following a reference from the PM forum, and was made welcome by Doug Dupuis statement, and found some disappointing similarities in the forums.* The forums are dedicated to Passagemakers and Trawlers, boats which I meet out on the water, occupied by some great folks, who I now number among my boating friends.* None of these boaters share their experiences with the universe of boaters who frequent these forums.* No "Local Knowledge" is passed on by these experienced boaters through these forums.* The PM forum only covers boating and going places in their "General Discussion" section.* Hmmm.* I must have misunderstood the meaning of passagemaking.* On this forum, there seem to be only 2 spots where boaters relate "boating" experiences for the geographic boating area I participate in - *"Voyagers ... "*and "Cruising ... West Coast".* "Voyagers ..."*has 10 threads, 2 of which I have responded to.* "Cruising ... West Coast" has 5 threads, none of them concerned with B.C. or Alaskan waters.***

I have made the acquaintance of Richard Cook, through his "Chichagof" post, and responded to your "Massett" post.* Sea Horse II responded enthusiastically to both of those posts, but I know we will never meet in our own boats in Petersburg, AK.*** Coyote454 and Chris Foster are close enough that I might meet up with them North of Puget Sound one day.* Oldfishboat and Wingspar are good pals from another forum.* There are currently 500 members here and my list contains 7 boaters who might be interested in exchanging information about where we go boating.*

The boaters go boating, and it seems that not many of them are interested in sharing their experiences through internet boating forums, or if they are, there are not many here to share with.*

OS


-- Edited by Old_Salt at 13:19, 2008-02-29
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Old 02-29-2008, 12:46 PM   #24
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RE: Participation

"None of these boaters share their experiences with the universe of boaters who frequent these forums. No "Local Knowledge" is passed on by these experienced boaters through these forums. The PM forum only covers boating and going places in their "General Discussion" section. Hmmm. I must have misunderstood the meaning of passagemaking. On this forum, there seem to be only 2 spots where boaters relate "boating" experiences for the geographic boating area I participate in - "Voyagers ... " and "Cruising ... West Coast". "Voyagers ..." has 10 threads, 2 of which I have responded to. "Cruising ... West Coast" has 5 threads, none of them concerned with B.C. or Alaskan waters."



That's certainly an interesting thought process on how valuable this site is to you. I stand amazed that you haven't started the thread yourself with a comment or a question since you obviously have experiences also. Perhaps if you started the thread others might join in like we have in sharing our backgrounds.

I don't just start writing about all the trips and experiences I've had for fear it might bore the stuffing out of the others. However, if someone asked about provisioning spots in southern BC you would find several of us recommending Ganges, Nanaimo, Campbell River, etc. We could tell you the store names, where to park your boat to have the best access, where the liquor stores are, etc.

Those who write well about their experiences, have interesting stories to tell and think that others want to hear about it, write books and sell them. Those folks don't just start writing about them on a web site.

That's just my thought and I might be wrong.

Ken Buck
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Old 02-29-2008, 07:22 PM   #25
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RE: Participation

Mr Salt,

This could be the most interesting, honest and meaningful post I've seen on this forum. I responded to a message from Doug D also ( on the Willard boat owners site ) I spend 90 % of my time here now ( more fun ) but I don't learn much about Willards here. Why don't your friends play on the forums ... do you think? Many know there are many that have extensive experience in these PNW waters. It seems strange to me that knowing I live in SE Alaska ( I put it on my posts for many months ) nobody has asked me anything about " local knowlege ". One person asked me what would be the ideal SE Alaska boat but thats it. I belive nobody knows how many of the 500 members participate, as lurkers or otherwise. I did some serious counting one day and it seems from my efforts that about 70 have posted. If there are 50 to 150 lurkers there could be 300 or more that surfed a bit or made a post or two and now don't remember Trawler Forum at all. Please don't go back under the rock Mr Salt as I think your input on this Forum will/would be very meaningful. I'll make a list of some places I've not been but are high on my list of places of extreem interest. Thank you for your response.

Eric Henning
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:04 PM   #26
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RE: Participation

OK you guys. You complain that no one shares their experiences of cruising and since Old Salt, Marin, OldFishboat and a few more of us are all located on the North-West Coast why would we bother posting our experiences?
I mean, come on now all we do is wander around in the fog and pouring rain out here and most people would not be to interested if we were to document a lengthy trip in such weather when all we saw were a couple of other vessels on somewhat of a collision course to us and a few rocks sticking out of the fog a couple of times a day.
Look at Old Salt's words - he says it took him 148 days of such wanderings to get to SE Alaska and back when we all know that most boaters would want to make such a trip in 25 or 30 days at the most but that would need visibility.
We who live out here on the wet coast should be grateful that fellow boaters don't post great writings about their great trips on our coast, it keeps the number of boats well down to where we can still get a nice little snug cove all to our selfs for a day or two, mind you we have thought that was the case until the fog lifted a bit and by golly there were 3 others boats in our cove!
We have, like OldSalt spent many days exploring the coast line from Vancouver / Victoria to Cape Caution and at times spent weeks going nowhere, but not because of the bad weather (sorry, I had to include this) but rather that it was so darn peaceful and beautiful that we did not want to move. Spent one trip of 9 weeks in this area and never ran the engine more than 3 hours a day except for the trip north to Campbell River and return and gee it didn't rain once!
I suppose that if a list member wants info on our coast the polite thing would be to give him what he wants but gosh darn it, he just might try it and like "Mikey" like it and be a repeat customer - oh what are we to do Old Salt??
Now if this posting doesn't create a bit of a discussion between poster I don't know what will.
Above was all written with tongue in cheek for sure VVBG

John "Penta
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:27 PM   #27
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RE: Participation

Ken---

I think you have summed up the situation pretty well. To be totally honest, I have no interest in reading about someone's experience cruising the Inside Passage or anywhere else. If, as you allude to, it's a book about such a voyage written creatively and professionally--- like Johnathan Raban's "Passage to Juneau"--- that's another deal. I read that sort of thing because it's FAR more than just a "what I did" story. But I won't read the kind of voyage posts that appear on forums like this one, T&T, etc.

That's not to say I'm above asking for advice when planning our own cruises. For example we're planning a multi-week cruise to Desolation Sound this fall, and I've asked for advice and opinions from a couple of people I know with a lot of experience cruising the same area as to good anchorages enroute, things to be careful of, and so on.

But we bought our boat to have our own adventures, not duplicate anyone else's. For example even though thousands upon thousands of people have flown floatplanes up and down the Inside Passage, when my wife and I started to do it in the mid-1980s we wanted that "breaking new ground" feeling. We wanted to see if we had the skill and knowledge to plan and execute sucn a flight totally on our own, as though nobody had ever done what we were going to do.

We take the same approach to boating. Sure, a million people will have taken a boat to every destination we could possibly come up with, but that's not the point. To us it will be a first, and a big part of that is figuring out how to deal on our own with what we're going to encounter.

We tend to project our values onto other people, so since I have no interest in reading somebody else's "what I did on my cruise last year" post, I figure nobody's going to want to read the same thing from me so I won't write them. I've had a few books published and I'm working on another one, but I try to write those in a such a way that people will want to buy them. But that's a WAY different kind of writing than the typical "my cruise" post to a website.

So speaking STRICTLY for myself, the value in a forum like this one is to get boating questions answered, or to try to answer them if I think I have an answer. Talking about boat design is enjoyable (thank you, Eric) and boat history if it's relevant, and other similar topics.

So to answer the implied question of why don't more people on this forum talk about their own boating experiences, for my part it's because I want to learn things by doing them, not by reading or writing about them. This past weekend I met a fellow who has a Harley Davidson and loves to take long trips on it with his wife. I started asking him some questions about various Harley models and he stopped me and said, "I'm not really interested in Harley-Davidsons, I'm just interested in MY Harley-Davidson." I can relate to that. It's why my wife and I don't attend Grand Banks rendezvous or TrawlerFests, etc. We got the boat to do our own thing totally on our own, although we do have a couple of like-minded friends we really enjoy cruising with when we get the chance.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not badmouthing people who like to read about other people's cruises, or like to write about their own. I'm just saying I'm not one of them.


-- Edited by Marin at 21:31, 2008-02-29
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:33 PM   #28
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RE: Participation

Gee, Eric!* Please do not call me Mr.* I keep looking over my shoulder for my Father when someone does that.*You will get Honest from me, young man.* Interesting and Meaningful will depend on you.*

Perhaps you have run across an Alaskan out of Girdwood, name of Rob Hays, who has a Willard 40, name of Lady Anne.* Hes a helpful guy and I know he would share all he knew with you.* I can give you a reference by PM if you like.* He has summered in Petersburg for the last couple of years, and you may have met him there, or on the Willard forum.*

I have never thought of myself as being under a rock, Eric.* Actually, I volunteer a fair bit of boating info on other forums where there are a few more active participants, who seem to be keen on expanding their horizons a little bit, and I appreciate that they feel I have something of boating value to share.* I also appreciate their stories and humor, such as your Massett to Rupert story, singing all the way.* I can give you references by PM if you like.* I cant tell you the reasons why some of the boaters I have met have no interest at all in participating in internet boating forms, but I know when we meet up in some remote anchorage*I can spill a lot of beer with them, while lying to each other about what great skippies we are.*

Will you be resident in Thorne Bay this summer?* It is possible I will get the time to do a turn around POWI this summer.* I really enjoyed my brief stay on the West side last trip, and Cape Chacon was quite a thrill for an old guy.*

Thanks for your response.* Meeting up with you and Rcook has made my trip to TF very worthwhile.*

OS
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:42 PM   #29
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RE: Participation

Penta:

Do you keep your boat in that very nice Port of Sidney marina?* If I kept my boat in that very nice Port of Sidney marina, I would never leave to go cruising!*

OS
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Old 02-29-2008, 09:02 PM   #30
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RE: Participation

Man, you have to be kidding - the last time I put in there to let someone off the dock crew turned up their noses at my boat and asked how long I intended to be there - I left very soon after. That place is for the rich and famous for sure!
Actually my boat is currently in my back yard undergoing a multi-year refit and re-work. I have re-fastened the hull, re-decked, replaced the cabin tops, extended the aft cabin by 2 feet (from my original conversion) stripped the entire interior and all the electricals. I guess you could say that at one time she was a "bare" hull! Re-doing the interior now, got most of the cabinets done in the main cabin and am now installing pine "bead board" on the walls.
Provided our family situation allows it we hope to relaunch next spring.
She used to live at Westport Marina out by the ferry terminal and we live on the south side of the airport so that was nice and close.
One day I will figure out how to post some pictures for all to see.
John
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Old 02-29-2008, 10:57 PM   #31
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RE: Participation

Quote:
Marin wrote:


"Don't get me wrong. I'm not badmouthing people who like to read about other people's cruises, or like to write about their own. I'm just saying I'm not one of them."


Marin: This would have sufficed! What the hell was all that other stuff about? For a guy who doesn't want to read or write about what other people are doing, you sure can fill a page!

*
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:52 PM   #32
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RE: Participation

I didn't say I don't want to shoot my mouth off, just that I don't want to shoot it off about cruising stories
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Old 03-01-2008, 02:04 AM   #33
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RE: Participation

I just like to read about what you guys in the US of A get up to and have a bit of input into some of the technical and cruising questions.
Will post some tales of cruising down under if any one is interested but I mostly cruise out into the Great Barrier Reef fish and dive (shoot fish,no scuba), no land in sight.
Return home via Fraser island (the largest sand Island in the world).
This year I had intended to cruise from Mooloolaba to Darwin about 2200 nautical miles but the Boss thinks we should spend a bit more time at home and renovate another house.
I will let you know how we go. I hope we get about 900 NM up the coast.
I enjoy this forum more than the PMM as it is so much faster and a dam sight more simple.

Benn
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Old 03-01-2008, 02:33 AM   #34
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RE: Participation

Quote:
Tidahapah wrote:
Will post some tales of cruising down under if any one is interested but I mostly cruise out into the Great Barrier Reef fish and dive (shoot fish,no scuba), no land in sight.
Return home via Fraser island (the largest sand Island in the world).
This year I had intended to cruise from Mooloolaba to Darwin about 2200 nautical miles but the Boss thinks we should spend a bit more time at home and renovate another house.
I will let you know how we go. I hope we get about 900 NM up the coast.
I enjoy this forum more than the PMM as it is so much faster and a dam sight more simple.

Benn
Yep, Benn, sounds boring as hell.....of course we would love to hear about it!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-01-2008, 08:13 PM   #35
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RE: Participation

Well said SeaHorse! Succint and to the point.

Marin also wrote:


"I've had a few books published and I'm working on another one, but I try to write those in a such a way that people will want to buy them. But that's a WAY different kind of writing than the typical "my cruise" post to a website"

There is currently a book on Ebay by Marin, "Flying a Floatplane" - Pieceofmind books have it for $0.12. Worth every cent.

It would be sad indeed if we could only get to read stories from "professional" authors. Some of the most interesting tales have come from ordinary folk who have simply put their stories down for posterity or maybe even initially just for themselves. Anne Frank comes to mind.

Nobody should feel intellectually threatened from putting their thoughts down for others to read by thinking that their scribblings are going to be dissected by some wannabe critic. If you've had a nice trip somewhere tell everyone about it. Who cares if your grammar don't make sens or your spellin ain't right. These days most kids don't even know that a preposition ain't a good thing to end a sentence with!!

*
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Old 03-01-2008, 10:33 PM   #36
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Charles07---

Hey, they can give the book away for free if they want to.* I got my cut of the cover price a long time ago.

"Flying a Floatplane" came out in 1985 and went through three editions and was finally taken out of print in 2002.* My current published book is "Success on the Step: Flying with Kenmore Air." Harrison Ford wrote the foreword for me and I recently learned is considering using the book as the basis for a movie.

But Chuck, you might want to consider taking a remedial reading course at your local community college because you clearly need help interpreting what you see in print. It was never suggested that people not post cruising stories unless they were written "professionally" nor was it suggested that anyone's cruising stories were going to be "dissected" in any way.

Half the world's population is of below average intelligence. So I guess it's a statistical inevitability that Chuck is here to represent the lower half.



-- Edited by Marin at 00:19, 2008-03-02
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:39 PM   #37
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RE: Participation

Of course I'm stoopid and dumb, got a boat ain't I! My wife used to have a T shirt with a big arrow that said "I'm with stupid". She said she always wanted me to be by her right side so she felt safe. Well how DUMB was I! The arrow pointed at ME!! Took me years to find out. Anyhow, anyone who reads my sarcastic ramblings on this forum can tell I'm a bit retarded and not real bright.

I was actually having dinner with Harrison (Mr Ford) or Han Solo as he likes to be called*after a good scotch, and he mentioned that he was very impressed with Kenmore Air after they did such a great job restoring his old Beaver N28S. *He remembers signing a book about Kenmore Air but at the time he thought it was just an autograph hunter. Apparently the moofie is going to be called "Indiana Jones - a step too faure"
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Old 03-02-2008, 03:55 AM   #38
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RE: Participation

Half the world's population is of below average intelligence.

Sure ,

BUT if you are so bright that you are ,,, One in a Million,

Remember in China there are 1300 just like you!

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Old 03-02-2008, 10:35 AM   #39
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RE: Participation

Marin,

Charles 07 may have said a few unsavory things but he made up for lots by " Indiana Jones - a step to Faure ". I'm sorry Marin .. I had a good howl this morning. I'll give the man a " get out of jail free card " for at least a week and I can imagine yourself laughing a bit too.

Eric
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Old 03-02-2008, 04:58 PM   #40
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Ditto!!!!!!* (LOL)
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