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09-15-2015, 10:17 AM
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#21
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TF Site Team
City: Saltspring Island
Vessel Name: Retreat
Vessel Model: C&L 44
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,663
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Several years ago I was walking the docks in Skidegate, Haida Gwaii, where I saw a boat like my C&L 44 set up with paravanes. The attachment of the poles and control posts was to the hull at deck level and the mast was positioned over the back wall of the main cabin. There was no outward sign of reinforcing, but of course the inside may have been substantially beefed up.
Just made me think you can add paravanes to almost any design if you do your homework on stress points.
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09-15-2015, 10:51 AM
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#22
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulf Comanche
Forgot to add, the poles go thru the galley roof, thru the deck, then are welded to the stringers in the hull.
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Wow. That's stout.
I really need to get an expert on a boat like mine so he/she can walk around and look at the various mounting possibilities. I just don't know enough at this point. Don't know the downward force on the mast, don't know how strong the fiberglass is at various points on my boat, don't know if I can get by without compression posts. Basically, I don't know squat!
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09-15-2015, 10:57 AM
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#23
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Guru
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel Duck 492
And don't forget to add that you will need to run your generator continuously to power the SeaKeeper not to mention it takes a very long time for the gyro to wind up (per reports that I've read). Personally, I would not want to have my generator running all the time. I lean more to the "green" side of things and that's why I think paravanes are the way to go for stabilization.
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Good points. And of course any system has its pros and cons.
But many powerboats these days are running their gensets almost 24/7. And paravanes just aren't practical for shallow water running like the ICW. And then there's the bridge thing.
I just think for most coastal cruisers paravanes aren't very practical.
Bu as always, YMMV.
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09-15-2015, 11:55 AM
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#24
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Guru
City: Everett Wa
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
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Many of the commercial trawler in the PNW have them so their are plenty examples to look at. Most have been added after, so the addition suport is on the outside. Could run a new extorior support mainly using the walls which you could also added exterior support as well. Maybe be the boat already has a mast foot in its original design of sails are an option.
You might also talk to a sail boat rigger as they have some basic under standing ans ideas. I already have the poles, plates and fish. We took aAlaska cruise, and many made poles out of natural straight pine poles, hand most of the support wad chain plates and wire stays like sail boats, which I thought was interesting. So walk the docks.
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09-15-2015, 12:47 PM
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#25
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Guru
City: Melbourne, FL
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,731
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Has anyone ever mounted a pair of hull shaped wings that fold down under water when you need roll reduction? Something like stabilizer wings but could fold up against the hull side when not in use.
Since you don't have the leverage of the boom length, that might work easier on boat that won't work with paravanes.
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09-15-2015, 01:03 PM
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#26
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Veteran Member
City: Fl
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude01
Forgot the drawing of my boat with a mast. Mast is too big in this drawing. Maybe a 25' mast would look better.
Attachment 44561
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that boom is way to high above the coach roof.
why
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09-15-2015, 01:14 PM
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#27
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Guru
City: Everett Wa
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
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I have seen wings on sail boat keels. Another idea is to just hang the fish from a cleat with out poles. We were mored on lake union, Seattle, close to the speed test zone and waked, so I hung roll stopper cones from the mid cleats, which reduced the roll by at least 50%.
Also the angles of the suppot and cable lines is very important. The larger the angle to more the stress. Heavy load riggers have to know angles vs stress loads.
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09-15-2015, 01:22 PM
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#28
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo2015
that boom is way to high above the coach roof.
why
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Not sure why the boom is so high. That was drawn by the Island Packet folks. Maybe to clear stuff mounted in the PH roof?
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09-15-2015, 01:26 PM
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#29
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Member
City: ---
Vessel Name: ---
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo2015
that boom is way to high above the coach roof.
why
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Agree 100%
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09-15-2015, 01:27 PM
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#30
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Guru
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,075
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Have you contacted Island Packet? They may assist as they likely have a vested interest in their product.
The compression post or arch should be a no-brainer for them.
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09-15-2015, 01:28 PM
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#31
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Guru
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo2015
that boom is way to high above the coach roof.
why
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I'm guessing height/liability reasons as there is a seating area between the mast and pilothouse.
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09-15-2015, 01:37 PM
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#32
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Guru
City: Beaufort, NC USA
Vessel Name: Sylphide
Vessel Model: Kingston Aluminum Yacht 44' Custom
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11
Good points. And of course any system has its pros and cons.
But many powerboats these days are running their gensets almost 24/7. And paravanes just aren't practical for shallow water running like the ICW. And then there's the bridge thing.
I just think for most coastal cruisers paravanes aren't very practical.
Bu as always, YMMV.
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I've never run the ICW, so please forgive my ignorance, but is there really that much need for stabilization when running the ditch? You're pretty well protected the majority of the time, right? Seems like if you had vanes, you'd just stow them for the ICW.
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09-15-2015, 01:53 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
City: discomfort.reactants.peanuts
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayfarer
I've never run the ICW, so please forgive my ignorance, but is there really that much need for stabilization when running the ditch? You're pretty well protected the majority of the time, right? Seems like if you had vanes, you'd just stow them for the ICW.
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Exactly what I was thinking!
__________________
Diesel Duck
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09-15-2015, 02:02 PM
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#34
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Guru
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayfarer
I've never run the ICW, so please forgive my ignorance, but is there really that much need for stabilization when running the ditch? You're pretty well protected the majority of the time, right? Seems like if you had vanes, you'd just stow them for the ICW.
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Active stabilizers come in very handy in the IWC for dealing with wakes. I've lost track of how many boats I've called to arrange a slow pass and they'll come back to me with "Don't worry about it I've got my stabilizers on. So roll on by at speed.". And there are areas along the ICW and areas getting to or from the ICW that involve open water that can be shallow.
Plus paravanes add significantly to your air draft.
Don't get me wrong, they work and they are a good option for many. I'm just not sold on them as the best option for people who are going to spend the majority of their time cruising the ICW and other shallow waters.
And as I mentioned before, IMO a boat with active stabilizers is an easier sell at resale. And I think active stabilizers add more value to a boat.
But hey, what do I know? I've been wrong before. :-)
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09-15-2015, 02:17 PM
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#35
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayfarer
I've never run the ICW, so please forgive my ignorance, but is there really that much need for stabilization when running the ditch? You're pretty well protected the majority of the time, right? Seems like if you had vanes, you'd just stow them for the ICW.
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Oh, yeah, I wouldn't use them in the ICW. Just out in open water.
We did a Gulf of Mexico crossing from Clearwater to Panama City this summer, about 30 hours, and after that I realized for longer passages I needed some stabilization to make it comfortable. I really liked being out in open water and making the overnight passage and want to do more, but not with 20 degree rolls.
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09-15-2015, 02:20 PM
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#36
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11
Active stabilizers come in very handy in the IWC for dealing with wakes. I've lost track of how many boats I've called to arrange a slow pass and they'll come back to me with "Don't worry about it I've got my stabilizers on. So roll on by at speed.". And there are areas along the ICW and areas getting to or from the ICW that involve open water that can be shallow.
Plus paravanes add significantly to your air draft.
Don't get me wrong, they work and they are a good option for many. I'm just not sold on them as the best option for people who are going to spend the majority of their time cruising the ICW and other shallow waters.
And as I mentioned before, IMO a boat with active stabilizers is an easier sell at resale. And I think active stabilizers add more value to a boat.
But hey, what do I know? I've been wrong before. :-)
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I agree with you on the active fins, and my next boat will have probably have them, but for this boat it doesn't make sense.
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09-15-2015, 02:21 PM
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#37
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Guru
City: Beaufort, NC USA
Vessel Name: Sylphide
Vessel Model: Kingston Aluminum Yacht 44' Custom
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11
Active stabilizers come in very handy in the IWC for dealing with wakes. I've lost track of how many boats I've called to arrange a slow pass and they'll come back to me with "Don't worry about it I've got my stabilizers on. So roll on by at speed.". And there are areas along the ICW and areas getting to or from the ICW that involve open water that can be shallow.
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Hm... I hadn't considered wakes. That makes sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude01
Oh, yeah, I wouldn't use them in the ICW. Just out in open water.
We did a Gulf of Mexico crossing from Clearwater to Panama City this summer, about 30 hours, and after that I realized for longer passages I needed some stabilization to make it comfortable. I really liked being out in open water and making the overnight passage and want to do more, but not with 20 degree rolls.
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Completely understandable. 20 Degree rolls are fun for about 15 minutes, then it just becomes a chore.
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09-15-2015, 02:22 PM
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#38
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
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Paravane install
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northern Spy
Have you contacted Island Packet? They may assist as they likely have a vested interest in their product.
The compression post or arch should be a no-brainer for them.
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Yeah you're probably right. I did talked to them about adding a sail but it was too much money IMO.
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09-15-2015, 03:06 PM
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#39
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Guru
City: Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5,438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardude01
Yeah you're probably right. I did talked to then about adding a sail but it was too much money IMO.
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Do you quotes for the paravanes yet?
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09-15-2015, 03:11 PM
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#40
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Guru
City: Victoria TX
Vessel Name: Bijou
Vessel Model: 2008 Island Packet PY/SP
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt.Bill11
Do you quotes for the paravanes yet?
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Richard on Dauntless got his done for around $10000 so I'm shooting for that, but he already had a mast so mine could be more expensive.
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