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Old 03-18-2011, 10:03 AM   #21
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RE: Paravane

Hollywood is very much correct when he says drop the fish before you need them. We always make it point to have our arms out and in the ready position to drop the equipment in a hurry. It's funny but we always feel that the ride on the boat is a little better with just the arms out, but it is much better when everything is deployed. A good example as to how much the paravanes steady the boat: on crossing the Gulf of Alaska a few times and a couple of thousand miles. When in 7 foot seas the boat only gently rolls to about 8 deg. One night when we were 25 miles off of Cape St. Elias/Kayak Island it was pitch black and the seas were kicked up high. I was on the midnight thirty watch(All night long)My wife was suppose to take the wheel at 4AM but the boat was rolling to 18+ deg in a following sea. I don't kno how big the seas were 'cause it was dark but I can say that the paravanes made for a pretty solid ride. I maintained my watch until the weather calmed and seas lowered, my wife simply didn't need to see that stuff. I simply can't imagine what it would be like*without them. By the way this was a 60+ hour crossing. When we started the seas were 5-7 and the weather looked good for a few days out. Ya just never kno but always need to be ready for foul weather.* Woa! I'm getting excited about bringing a 58 foot seiner down from Ak to Puget Sound on April 1.
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:39 PM   #22
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RE: Paravane

Quote:
hollywood8118 wrote:


Regarding stabilising sails..... they have to be as big at a sail on a sailboat that would weigh the same as your trawler or they are not worth squat.
I don't have any experience concerning steadying sails versus paravane stabilizers*but don't doubt the veracity of your statement, especially with the "handkerchief-sized" sails typically used.* I'm looking forward to testing the effectiveness of my future boat's steadying sails which should often*augment vessel speed rather than hinder it as with paravanes.

*
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Old 03-18-2011, 01:48 PM   #23
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RE: Paravane

I know few peoples who own trawler with steadying sail....they are not so happy about it.
They are too small,to be efficient the must be as big as the main of a sailboat.
They use more often the mast to hoist the dinghy on the boat.
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Old 03-18-2011, 02:24 PM   #24
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RE: Paravane

No one size fits all.**That's why some have both.
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Old 03-18-2011, 02:51 PM   #25
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Paravane

Larry the picture that you post is not a KK ....(your boat)
It's a Seahorse diesel duck 51' or the 462


-- Edited by septembre on Friday 18th of March 2011 02:53:19 PM
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Old 03-18-2011, 02:56 PM   #26
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RE: Paravane

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No one size fits all.**That's why some have both.
On that 51-foot Seahorse Diesel Duck, the flopper-stopper option costs $9,500 and the motor-sailer rig $9500 too.* Interestingly, the builder doesn't recommend installing the flopper stopper if the vessel has a sailing rig.

*
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:01 PM   #27
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RE: Paravane

I have them, though I had to take the arms off when I brought it to the slip I'm in as they might punch a hole in the roof of the place when the water rises. I would really like to put them back on, so I was thinking of cutting the arms down to about the height of the masthead light. Does anyone think this would compromise them? My boat is a big time roller in rough water.
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Old 03-18-2011, 03:43 PM   #28
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RE: Paravane

Quote:
Gulf Comanche wrote:

I have them, though I had to take the arms off when I brought it to the slip I'm in as they might punch a hole in the roof of the place when the water rises. I would really like to put them back on, so I was thinking of cutting the arms down to about the height of the masthead light. Does anyone think this would compromise them? My boat is a big time roller in rough water.
If you cut the poles, you may want to cut the length of the cables to the phish but be careful.* Ours are designed so that the phish can't get fouled in the running gear.* They run*15' deep*and at that we have had them out of the water a few times in huge seas.

*
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:03 PM   #29
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RE: Paravane

Quote:
Gulf Comanche wrote:

I have them, though I had to take the arms off when I brought it to the slip I'm in as they might punch a hole in the roof of the place when the water rises. I would really like to put them back on, so I was thinking of cutting the arms down to about the height of the masthead light. Does anyone think this would compromise them? My boat is a big time roller in rough water.
I had a double swivel at the pivot point, they could pivot down from the upright stored position, and also fold back... but in my case they were shorter than the main mast so I only did this for maintenance. Shortening them WILL reduce the* level effect and get them closer the the running gear... you can see the difference in height between the mast and the vane arms, innthe second pic you can just make out the swivel
HOLLYWOOD
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:20 PM   #30
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RE: Paravane

Claude,
I have PM'd you re info from Monk and Ocean Haven yachts.
Attached is a couple of photos of static roll stabilisers.
Also a couple of boatrs with paravane arms, I'll also track down some with fold away arms as used on prawn trawlers here in Aus.
Benn
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Old 03-18-2011, 07:41 PM   #31
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RE: Paravane

Quote:
Tidahapah wrote:

Claude,
I have PM'd you re info from Monk and Ocean Haven yachts.
Attached is a couple of photos of static roll stabilisers.
Also a couple of boatrs with paravane arms, I'll also track down some with fold away arms as used on prawn trawlers here in Aus.
Benn
Can you explain how this one is deployed? Interesting looking gizmo.
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Old 03-18-2011, 08:11 PM   #32
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Paravane

http://www.boatexec.com/Photo%20Gallery.htm

http://boatexec.com/Paravanes.htm

http://boatexec.com/flopper_stoppers.htm***
**

these links hves some good pictures and*there is also a good written description of how the system is installed.

-- Edited by Singleprop on Friday 18th of March 2011 09:20:01 PM
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Old 03-19-2011, 04:34 AM   #33
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RE: Paravane

At a wind speed of 17K , a square foot of sail (or anything else) produces one pound of force .

The F-S are far more powerful to create a righting moment unless its blowing like crazy!!!

No wind and old rollers will pay for the FS the first time.

I was contemplating a new build , but the economy sucks so its on hold.

MY stabilizing concept was a wide centerboard trunk , (6 or more inches), with a foil shaped board that could pivot on its fat middle about 25% from the leading edge.

A simple air ram would induce the angle of attack that would create the righting force , just as stabilizers do.

Of course mine would be zero drag when not in use , and would simply push up like every CB on ground contact.

Ripping off or knocking a hole in the boat would no longer be the choice.

Cheap to build and operate , but the interior might be compromised by the center board trunk requirement.
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:43 PM   #34
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RE: Paravane

David,
That foto is of the flap type suspended from the arm or arms.
There is a center piece that has a spring and a weight to keep it all in the water and absorb some of the shock load.
It just acts as a sort of flap valve creating a resistance on the up side and allowing the water to flow when falling.
That unit is fitted on a 50' Nordie next door to me.
Benn
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:19 PM   #35
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RE: Paravane

Quote:
Tidahapah wrote:

David,
That foto is of the flap type suspended from the arm or arms.
There is a center piece that has a spring and a weight to keep it all in the water and absorb some of the shock load.
It just acts as a sort of flap valve creating a resistance on the up side and allowing the water to flow when falling.
That unit is fitted on a 50' Nordie next door to me.
Benn
Benn, I may have missed something here.* Will this system work at anchor and underway?* Depending on the diameter it seems it would produce allot of drag.
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Old 03-19-2011, 08:33 PM   #36
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RE: Paravane

Strictly an at anchor roll modifier.
Benn
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:56 AM   #37
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RE: Paravane

We had paravanes on our 43' Defever that had winches for lowering the outreaching "booms". They were heavy, took time to operate, difficult to retrieve, BUT Worth every bit of the trouble!!! We took the boat over 15,000nm, and even though we are fair weather boaters, we got caught several times in what we considered "rough seas"! The paravanes made the voyage "bearable", although when it really gets rough, the fraction of roll that is not removed can be endured! The biggest mistake is going out in the open and NOT putting the fish in the water! The rough water seems to "sneak up on you"! This, we never seemed to learn! The "fish", reduced our average cruising speed about 1 knot, well worth the improved cruising characteristics! Some boats have the fish also, deployed on winches, which would be a great feature! We seldom had fish come out of the water, and then it was only straight up a foot, or two. We did not feel there was a danger from "flying fish", on our boat! The paravanes definitely do continue to perform even at anchor, particularly in some of the Pacific coast "rolly anchorages, from the Panama Canal northbound. An important feature when you're trying to play "Mexican Train" dominoes! We have not owned a boat with Naids, or a steadying sail, but would certainly not criticize either, and would welcome them as an improvement, I'm sure! You'll appreciate any improvement, after many hours in a long passage, in heavy seas! Dick & Mary Jo
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:16 AM   #38
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RE: Paravane

A quick look in Beede's book and he had both steading sails and FS.

To him there is no choice the FS work , the saILS WERE A WASTE OF TIME AND EFFORT.

28% from the stern is the preferred location for their swim.
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