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Old 08-09-2015, 07:19 PM   #21
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If I hear anything I will let you know. It was on the news again last night up here and they said he was doing OK.
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Old 08-09-2015, 07:23 PM   #22
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If I hear anything I will let you know. It was on the news again last night up here and they said he was doing OK.
Thanks again.
Sad thing is, we haven't heard a peep about it down here.
Haven't had a opportunity to make the acquaintance of my new FWC neighbor yet. Maybe I'll do that this week. Let him know his work is appreciated.

OD
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Old 08-10-2015, 02:32 AM   #23
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He was released from the hospital and it was reported he was doing well.
Wonderful!!
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Old 08-10-2015, 07:42 AM   #24
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Thank God the officer is OK. Just me rambling but maybe the officer jumped in the water to avoid turning his back to the shooter which may have been necessary if he reboaded his own boat.

I would like to know more about the homeowner who confronted the perp's with his own gun. A month or so ago in the Tampa Bay area 2 guys did a occupied home invasion and killed the 4 person family in the home. The home owner was totally defenseless.
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Old 08-10-2015, 08:59 AM   #25
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Thank God the officer is OK. Just me rambling but maybe the officer jumped in the water to avoid turning his back to the shooter which may have been necessary if he reboaded his own boat....
Anything is possible. There are a lot of details to be filled in.

The act of boarding in an LE capacity, is probably the riskiest part of an LE contact underway. Between coming along side, while trying not to damage the persons vessel for fear of civil litigation, tying off, and physically hoisting yourself onto the other boat, ties up your hands and your attention, losing focus on the people on board. .

Until recently (the last few years anyway), I've only seen 1 officer per FWC boat on the water. We worked alongside them as backup on many occasions in the CG. They usually came alongside and asked for your information from there. Hardly ever saw one go aboard until they were comfortable with the situation or had backup. Since the article didn't specify, I assumed (I know better!) that he was still aboard his FWC vessel asking for ID. It'll be interesting to hear more facts.

It was a bit better as a Coastie.
As a reserve crew, mist of us were real world, full time cops, paramedics and firefighters, and we always had an armed crew covering the first guy/gal on deck!

Knowing that the officer is going to recover, this case makes an excellent training scenario for future waterborne LE officers, may provide for policy change if necessary, and certainly paves the way for additional funding for more FWC officers or bolstering the FWC reserve program.

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...I would like to know more about the homeowner who confronted the perp's with his own gun. A month or so ago in the Tampa Bay area 2 guys did a occupied home invasion and killed the 4 person family in the home. The home owner was totally defenseless.
Me too. They didn't say much about it in the initial release.
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Old 08-10-2015, 01:05 PM   #26
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I'm glad the FWC officer is doing OK. It's always a scary situation when boarding a boat when you're alone. Same as doing a traffic stop when you're alone. No matter how many of the variables you try to control to make sure you are safe, you can't control all of them.


My thought when I read about the officer jumping in the water is that the bad guys might have been between him and his boat and the only line of safe retreat was overboard.


OD, please keep us posted as details of how this played out become available.
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Old 08-10-2015, 01:08 PM   #27
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I have NEVER seen a solo officer board a vessel (thankfully).....tantamount to suicide in the wrong situation and it would be a terrible policy.

Still not sure this one did either.
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Old 08-10-2015, 02:46 PM   #28
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I'm glad the FWC officer is doing OK. It's always a scary situation when boarding a boat when you're alone. Same as doing a traffic stop when you're alone. No matter how many of the variables you try to control to make sure you are safe, you can't control all of them.

My thought when I read about the officer jumping in the water is that the bad guys might have been between him and his boat and the only line of safe retreat was overboard.

OD, please keep us posted as details of how this played out become available.
I'll do my best Mike.

You hit it on the head in your first paragraph.
Having conducted more traffic stops than I can count, both in a car and on a motorcycle, there really are too many variables to control everything.
You mitigate what you can, and do the best with whatever you can't when it presents. On a boat you have the added issue of slower backup forces, and a "ground" that moves under your feet!

If he were on board, in this situation a lot would depend on the design and construction of the vessel. Fiberglass, Glass over wood, steel, etc., and whether there's anything to use for cover or concealment such as bulkheads or a cabin top.

As well, the caliber of incoming rounds vs. distance between the shooter and the officer or any available cover/concealment become a serious factor. Unfortunately when the SHTF is not the time to try and sort it all out.

Training and instincts have to take over, and pray you make the right decisions. IMHO, there is never "enough" scenario based force on force training. When he recovers, if he's able to handle it, I'd love to have him teaching the class! Who better than one whose BTDT and survived

For the reasons previously mentioned, I'm still not sure he was off of his vessel. If he felt comfortable, and the situation was "controlled", at least momentarily in his mind, then he may have boarded. But again, I'm just guessing like everyone else at this point.

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I have NEVER seen a solo officer board a vessel (thankfully).....tantamount to suicide in the wrong situation and it would be a terrible policy. Still not sure this one did either.
I'm not sure I understood that last sentence, but I definitely won't disagree with you regarding policy or safety my friend. I am actually surprised that we haven't had more of this sort of thing happen.

That's the difference between USCG boarding teams and local/state Marine Law Enforcement Units. You can take an SS, YN, BM, ET, etc., give them the training and qual. codes, and assign them collateral duties as a boarding team member. You can't do that with LEO's.

At the time, I was with one of the largest Sheriff's Offices in the State, and about 5th largest in the country if memory serves me correctly.
I remember our marine unit having one (1) officer on board...period! The only time they had a backup officer, was if there was a reserve/auxiliary officer with them, or when one of us that were relatively new to the job, off duty, and "ate up with it" would tag along.

As for FWC, I'm not at all sure that is their "policy."
I just know what I've seen and experienced first hand.
Unfortunately, when we're talking about strained budgets and limited manpower, that's what sometimes happens. With the larger agencies not so much.

I have a long time friend who works with one of the fairly large Marine Units in South East Florida. While he "can" take the vessel out and patrol solo, the supervisor has "highly recommended" that there always be two (2) officers on board. So apparently it's not their "policy" either, just a recommendation

Whatever the case, the policies HAVE to change! Every boat with a badge attached, needs to have at least two (2) officers on board when U/W.

I will admit that I've started noticing a trend in local law enforcement toward having at least two (2) sometimes three (3) officers on board depending on the size of the vessel and the detail.
Any more than that it gets pretty crowded and people tend to get in each other's way.

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Old 08-10-2015, 02:49 PM   #29
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I would be shocked if the officer boarded the sail boat.

One officer trying to handle his boat, while trying to stand off the other boat, and watching the people on the other boat is likely what allowed the officer to be ambushed. Too much for one person to do at one time.

It would not surprise me if the sail boat gave the suspects a height advantage. Jumping into the water may have been the quickest way out of the line of fire and getting some cover and/or concealment. Or the W/O fell into the water when he moved to get find some cover/concealment.

The report will be interesting.

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Old 08-10-2015, 02:58 PM   #30
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I have NEVER seen a solo officer board a vessel (thankfully).....tantamount to suicide in the wrong situation and it would be a terrible policy.

Still not sure this one did either.
Last sentence was meant to say I didn't think he boarded the sailboat.

I agree that if sitting in his boat tied up alongside...and a gunman appears on deck firing down into the typical F&G boat....hopping over the far gunnel may have been what popped into his mind first.
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Old 08-10-2015, 03:16 PM   #31
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Here are a couple of the local news reports. Alot of conflicting info in initial reports. Hopefully a full account will eventually come out.
Certainly makes me look at boardings differently now. When I was last boarded by CG for a routine inspection two guys came on board with weapons. One at a time boarded. Two others with weapons in hand had eyes on everyone on board. It did not bother me but it seemed a bit overkill given it was all my family members. Seeing this will make it easy to explain to my family why they board this way.

FWC Officer Shot in Panama City - WEAR - Pensacola Top Stories - ABC

Panhandle wildlife officer shot; 2 arrested | News - Home
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Old 08-10-2015, 04:47 PM   #32
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A question for LEO's on this forum; In FL it is legal for anyone legally allowed to own a handgun to store that handgun in the unlocked glove compartment of their car. I do not have a handgun normally stowed in my glove box, but I do have my insurance and car registration located there. Knowing that it is legal to stow a handgun in the glove compartment of a car is it prudent during a traffic stop to wait until the officer requests such documents and then explain to him their location before reaching for the glove box?
Opinions??
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Old 08-10-2015, 05:25 PM   #33
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A question for LEO's on this forum; In FL it is legal for anyone legally allowed to own a handgun to store that handgun in the unlocked glove compartment of their car. I do not have a handgun normally stowed in my glove box, but I do have my insurance and car registration located there. Knowing that it is legal to stow a handgun in the glove compartment of a car is it prudent during a traffic stop to wait until the officer requests such documents and then explain to him their location before reaching for the glove box?
Opinions??
Yes and yes.
Reference: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

(l) A person traveling by private conveyance when the weapon is securely encased or in a public conveyance when the weapon is securely encased and not in the person’s manual possession;

(5)POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.—Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

An unlocked glovebox has been deemed lawful since it can generally not be accessed by a "furtive movement" ( A Furtive Movement Can Get You Killed - USA Carry ), ( What is FURTIVE? definition of FURTIVE (Black's Law Dictionary) ).
The center console OTOH, can in fact be accessed by such movement, and the officer not be aware that you've now accessed the weapon.

Yes to unlocked glovebox.
No to Unlocked Center Console (must be locked).
Yes...please wait until asked for your registration if you keep it there, and not while they're approaching your vehicle. If asked, tell them there is a weapon present.
You'll be glad you did

OD
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Old 08-10-2015, 05:26 PM   #34
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Here are a couple of the local news reports. Alot of conflicting info in initial reports. Hopefully a full account will eventually come out.
Certainly makes me look at boardings differently now. When I was last boarded by CG for a routine inspection two guys came on board with weapons. One at a time boarded. Two others with weapons in hand had eyes on everyone on board. It did not bother me but it seemed a bit overkill given it was all my family members. Seeing this will make it easy to explain to my family why they board this way.

FWC Officer Shot in Panama City - WEAR - Pensacola Top Stories - ABC

Panhandle wildlife officer shot; 2 arrested | News - Home
Thanks
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Old 08-10-2015, 05:28 PM   #35
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Last sentence was meant to say I didn't think he boarded the sailboat.

I agree that if sitting in his boat tied up alongside...and a gunman appears on deck firing down into the typical F&G boat....hopping over the far gunnel may have been what popped into his mind first.
Thanks.

I'm sure it did, along with several OH CRAP!thoughts.

Still not sure on the boarding, and not sure he'd be tied off.
Sometimes better off to leave it out of gear and just toss a line over a cleat.
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Old 08-10-2015, 05:30 PM   #36
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I would be shocked if the officer boarded the sail boat.

One officer trying to handle his boat, while trying to stand off the other boat, and watching the people on the other boat is likely what allowed the officer to be ambushed. Too much for one person to do at one time.

It would not surprise me if the sail boat gave the suspects a height advantage. Jumping into the water may have been the quickest way out of the line of fire and getting some cover and/or concealment. Or the W/O fell into the water when he moved to get find some cover/concealment.

The report will be interesting.

Later,
Dan
Dan,

I'd say you're pretty well spot on with your thoughts.
My guess was either it was an oh crap panic reaction, or he may have lost his footing and fallen before or after being shot. They haven't said if he was shot prior to or after he went in the water that I've seen.
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