Overtaking prohibited in vicinity of marina!

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maybe knock one engine out of gear before passing marina, most twin screw boats handle just fine in these circumstances
 
BandB said:
We struggled with the 5 mph speed limits in sections of the Erie Canal. That required just bumping in gear for a moment, then out. That is 4.34 knots and I'd bet half the boats here can't go that slow in gear.
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I have seen a number of these signs/restrictions and we always laugh. "OK, you asked for it". We can absolutely idle slower, and at 5 mph, we're throwing a sizable wake.
 
Many are not aware of the definition of No Wake... and it has little or nothing to do with the actual size of any wake.
I was once stopped by a LEO in a canoe with a 2 HP outboard for violating the no wake zone posting. No citation just reiterated the below which is right from the USCG site.

Slow No Wake

 MEANS moving at the slowest speed possible while still maintaining steerage

o If there is a wind or current, you might have to go faster than you might think to maintain steerage.

o This means boaters going downstream with a current need to go faster than boaters traveling upstream against the current. Boaters going against a current

have greater control of their boats.

o It has nothing to do with you actually making a small wake or not. The speed and maintaining steerage depends on your boat and boat characteristics.
 
steelydon said:
I was passing a marina at no wake speed early one morning on my way back from Florida when a voice came over 16 advising me that I was in a no wake zone and that I needed to slow down. I responded that I was satisfied with my wake and would assume full responsibility and proceeded to give him my boat name, and hailing port and thanked him for his concern. That was it. There are plenty of violators but there are also plenty of “Barney Fifes” out to make a citizens arrest. Slow down but don’t be intimidated.

Don
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Best answer
 
Bacchus said:
Many are not aware of the definition of No Wake... and it has little or nothing to do with the actual size of any wake.
I was once stopped by a LEO in a canoe with a 2 HP outboard for violating the no wake zone posting. No citation just reiterated the below which is right from the USCG site.

Slow No Wake

 MEANS moving at the slowest speed possible while still maintaining steerage

o If there is a wind or current, you might have to go faster than you might think to maintain steerage.

o This means boaters going downstream with a current need to go faster than boaters traveling upstream against the current. Boaters going against a current

have greater control of their boats.

o It has nothing to do with you actually making a small wake or not. The speed and maintaining steerage depends on your boat and boat characteristics.
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Florida laws also echo that, as Idle Speed, No Wake means "must be operated at a speed no greater than that which is necessary to maintain steerage and headway."

Then for Slow Speed Minimum wake it's no rise in the bow.

I've never seen anyone stopped when they were making a reasonable attempt to comply just like I never saw boats going 7 knots stopped and ticketed in the 4.3 knot/5 mph zone.
 
Maybe a slightly different perspective with a couple of examples. :)
As we all should know, we are responsible for our wake and any damage or worse yet injuries it may cause. However, practically this may be difficult to actually prove. There is also something called "common courtesy" which I unfortunately find is too often lacking today what with alot of people being so centred on themselves.
There are extremes of both ends of this discussion, including the "wake draconians".
I moor at the Nanaimo Port Authority on a short dock (side tie). There is a reasonably sized marina and a busy fuel dock near me. If someone leaves the area (which is designated as "no wake") too fast (meaning generating a relatively large wake) at just the wrong angle, I receive broadside waves that actually pass under the dock I am tied to and violently rocks items off of my counters. One time, my mechanic had just finished (and had left the engine room) and he saw the wake coming and grabbed some items to save breakage while steadying himself from falling. If he had been down in the ER, he could easily have been injured!! This is not a one time event, but does not happen too often, mostly because the angle of the wake has to be "just right" to cause this much of a problem for my boat.
Another situation that I witnessed was while at the dock at Refuge Cove. This is a very busy fuel dock with provisioning store in Desolation Sound. Often boats come in way, way, too fast and don't realize that their wake follows them. The time I am referencing, it caused boats to rock so hard, that one woman (on a relatively large boat) was literally thrown around her galley. Luckily, she was not seriously injured.

Some of the "wake draconians" may have experienced things similar to what I described, but may be guilty of "over reacting" also.
I cannot be responsible for the actions (or inactions) of others. However, I can be considerate and try to think and act safety.
Around marinas, fuel docks, no wake zones, I slow down and observe what my wake is doing to others and try to adjust accordingly. In narrow channels I do not pass other boats (if a very long channel I would contact on VHF and ask them to slow so I could overtake with less of a wake). I also try to give canoes and kayakers a wide berth so they at least have a chance to take the wake to best advantage, and in some cases, I slow down for them as well.
I am not trying to preach here, just saying we can all be "more aware" of what our passage does and when appropriate try to be courteous to others.
Even for those who are already acting responsibly, look behind you and see if "what you think is happening" is "actually what is happening".

Just some thoughts.
 
In this case, I was compling with the no wake demand on several levels: I was making a slow pass, so my wake was minimal. I was more than 50 yards outside of the bouy line, so according to the USCG, I was not actually in a no wake zone and finally, no matter how large a homemade sign they post, it still does not count. This particular place has an official bouy line in front of their fuel dock, they do not have a shore to shore No Wake zone.

I was more annoyed about the passing prohibition than the whining about a nonexistent wake. Next year going north I’ll ask the name of the person who calls on 16. The CG finally allowed that if I had a name then I could make an official complaint. The CPO also advised that a Securité call about interference with navigation would be inappropriate.
 
Woodland,
Sounds like you are taking reasonable precautions to control your wake.
My point in the earlier post is really that following all of the "regulations" may not be enough. The intent of the regs in this case is to reduce damage and prevent injuries. If I were following all the rules, but my wake caused an injury, I would not be happy with my actions. As far as I can tell there are 3 groups of boat operators when it comes to producing dangerous wakes (which is situational as well): One group just does what they want and don't really care about anyone else. Another group tries their best to meet the intent and/or wording of the regulations. And the third group is just the old story of the second group "making a mistake" (or not thinking) in this situation.
I think there are a fair number of boaters who really don't understand what their wake is doing to others, so my thoughts would be: look behind once in a while and see how big your wake is and how it is affecting others.
Good luck with dealing with the annoying person on 16.
 
Shrew said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Also, simply not a great analogy. Wake Draconian would probably be more accurate.
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That wasn't used as an invocation of Godwin's law. It's a take-off on the "Soup Nazi" episode from Seinfeld. A harsh authoritarian who rigidly enforces his or her own made-up rules.

Bacchus said:
Many are not aware of the definition of No Wake... and it has little or nothing to do with the actual size of any wake.
I was once stopped by a LEO in a canoe with a 2 HP outboard for violating the no wake zone posting. No citation just reiterated the below which is right from the USCG site.
Click to expand...

There are no specific references to "no wake" regulations in the NavRules for international or US federally managed inland waters.

Typically with these regulations we're talking about state law. And those do differ somewhat from state to state. But I agree they often address speed and not wake.

This can be frustrating, since a small, planing hull will often produce less wake on plane than at the designated "no wake" speed, per state law. It just goes to show that the lubbers in the state capital don't always know much about operating boats.
 
steelydon said:
I was passing a marina at no wake speed early one morning on my way back from Florida when a voice came over 16 advising me that I was in a no wake zone and that I needed to slow down. I responded that I was satisfied with my wake and would assume full responsibility and proceeded to give him my boat name, and hailing port and thanked him for his concern. That was it. There are plenty of violators but there are also plenty of “Barney Fifes” out to make a citizens arrest. Slow down but don’t be intimidated.

Don
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That's all well and good until the water police stop you and issue a ticket for your wake. Happened to me when I was going under 6 mph in a 6 mph zone and the cops said my wake was too big and was causing boats to rock at the nearby dock (in a narrow channel).

Of course, there were no cops around when my boat got waked which tore up my boat's rub rail and tore off a lot of the bumper fastened to the dock.
 
My organization had a 43 foot sport cruiser that our (not so great) captain used to wake a dock where a boat was tied up (near Baltimore, MD) . I don't think he even knew he had done it. A woman's leg was broken and the DMR tracked our boat down and we had to pay out some bucks.

So people do get caught doing it every once in a while.
 
rslifkin said:
I love marinas that like to try to push boats around... Earlier this year I was passing a yacht club on the upper Hudson having slowed to about 6 kts for a no wake zone. My wake looked much like the picture below at the time, so a small ripple, nothing that should harm docked boats 50+ yards away. And yet, right as I approach the yacht club, I get a rather irritated sounding call on the VHF "Northbound vessel approaching *** yacht club, Captain, this is a NO WAKE zone". Of course, I did oblige and pulled the throttles back to idle, but I still found the encounter a little ridiculous.

Goes right along with the old guy in a small fishing boat that yelled at me one of the last times I was out this season while I was heading back into the channel at 5 kts making less wake than the picture. He looks up at me and yells "slow down, you're going way too fast" despite me being within the posted speed limit for the channel (6 mph, so 5.2 kts). I'm pretty sure he expected me to enter the channel at his speed, which I'd estimate at 2.5 - 3 kts (slower than my idle speed).

48823913193_e3bff9eeec_o.jpg
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That is about the same size wake I make at my normal cruise. My boat’s no-wake speed is about 4.5 knots. 5 knots and there is a wake. No-wake doesn’t mean “small wake”. My understand is that it means minimum speed necessary to maintain steerage way. Yes, I will often go over that speed. I idle at 600 rpm which will give me about 4 knots under most conditions. I will bump it up to about 800 rpm often which will give me about 4.5 knots and absolutely no wake.
 
From my lifetime experience, signs usually aren't a very good way to change human behavior.
 
Group9 said:
From my lifetime experience, signs usually aren't a very good way to change human behavior.
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When it comes to boating (in this case "wake management") what is? :D
 
The wake makers I don’t like are the speedboat types that slow down and ,bury the stern creating a larger than normal wake and then think they are complying! Some of them have smaller wakes at full speed! They don’t seem to realize that they need to reduce speed to nothing and then slowly trolling speed forward. Any a** can buy a boat....
 
We have a mile long no wake zone to transit on our way up or down the Snohomish River in western Washington. There’s a boat ramp at the upriver end of the zone and those are the operators who consistently “go slow”- about eight or nine - and lay down a wake that will swamp low lying villages. It’s amazing to me how many of them get offended, I mean nuts offended, when advised to slow down. Of course many of them also have their led light bars on, so, like the man said, “you can’t fix stupid”.
 
I've never understood the people who run in that dragging along not on plane state. No boat handles well in that range, it's inefficient, hard on the boat and just not very pleasant. Outside of a situation where I need to keep pace with the waves in a following sea, for my boat, I consider anything between 7.2 and 15.5 kts to be a no-go. Much above 7 kts and I'm starting to plow a good bit of water and under 15.5 or so I'm not cleanly up on plane. There's just no good reason to run in that in-between range and no reason to throw the large wake it produces.

Of course, I see people running along like that in one of the local bays all the time. 12 kts or so and trimmed all the way up throwing a massive wake because they don't want to go fast in the bay but don't realize that going slow in their 25 footer means less than 6 kts...
 
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Can't go on speed ....different hull shape and length determine wake not speed àlone for the most part.
 
The point is...if a boat is moving at high wake producing speed it can’t just slow down...it must eliminate all speed and then start slowly again at a non wake producing speed. I’ve owned small vessels for sport fishing etc and it’s the only way to accomplish an inoffensive wake...there is 5kn with a large wake or 5kn with virtually no wake. If you can’t accomplish that you should not be on the water...in my humble opinion
 
Well...I guess I can tell I'm on a powerboat forum. Disclosure: I'm a transitioning sailor whose sailboat is on a mooring in a busy harbor. After years of getting bounced around by powerboats throwing a visible (or more) wake transiting the channel between two mooring fields, I came to the anecdotal conclusion that 90+% of powerboaters don't know (or don't care?) what 'No Wake' means. A few times I thought my dinghy, tied off aft, was going to get swamped by the more egregious 'violators.' I avoided 'water rage' and was especially amused by the innocents who bounced me around going by, and then offered a friendly wave - "Forgive them, for they know not what they do."

I've been boating for 55 years and I get it that different boats have different hydrodynamics, but I was taught early on that 'No Wake' means nothing visible except perhaps a small burble, yes just enough to maintain steerageway. And not interested in starting a fight, but IMHO, the photo under the bridge in #3 is not 'No Wake.'

Joe
M/V Serena (and S/V Sleigh Ride)
 
No wake doesn't necessarily mean no wake.

USCG AUx defines Slow No Wake as "moving at the slowest speed possible while still
maintaining steerage"
Minn defines it as "“Slow-no wake” means operation of a watercraft at the slowest possible speed necessary to maintain steerage, but in no case greater than five miles per hour."

So if I am passing a USCG controlled area buoy, white with a red circle saying "no wake" I will follow USCG regs. If I am passing a state authorized sign saying "no wake" I will follow the regs of that state.

Boston Inner Harbor is a No Wake zone and everyone (except ferries and tour boats) understands it to mean 5mph. USCG or one of the many agencies lurking about will stop anyone roaring through the harbor on summer weekends. They're easy to spot as everyone is going the same speed.

If I am passing a marina with a spray painted sign I will follow the rule of do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Bear in mind I dock in Boston Harbor where I will see 2-3 ft chop at my slip on a gusty day. I have 3 10"Dia fenders on each side. I hang on and brace myself in when I'm working on the flybridge on gusty days.

I have a lot of understanding of the frustration of ICW dock owners but zero sympathy. You're docking on the side of a super highway. I'm overpropped and can throw a good sized wake at idle speed. Get bigger fenders!
 
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The USCG only deals with no wake of vessels over 1600 GRT I believe.

ALL white no wàke buoys àre stàte or privàte.
 
Let's keep in mind, back to the OP, the area in question is not a no wake zone. To Florida's "No Wake" and "Minimum Wake" there are a lot of areas I would term "Moderate Wake" Zones, that's really everything else. Keep an eye on your wake and don't cause undue harm. That's the responsibility.

On the other hand, every boat on the water should be prepared for moderate rate and even excessive wake at times. It's going to happen.
 
Keep your speed down to where four inch wakes are about it and turn off your VHF.
 
If you don't watch your wake around here (Bass capital of the South) you better carry a box full of 0.45" rubber plugs!
 
Does anyone have experience defending against wake damage? I have a friend who is fighting one now on Ct. coast. He is based out of Boston and traveling through Long Island Sound off Fishers Island in an Albin trawler. He claims he was only doing 6 knots (with a max speed only about 10 knots) during tide change. Another boat he passed at anchor offshore (during peak tide so rough water anyway). They sent him a cell phone picture of him plowing through another boat's wake and video on the inside of their boat with objects falling off counters and a woman being throw against a counter and falling to the floor claiming due to wake he was responsible for. He got a letter from a lawyer stating he wants $10k in damages and medical or will sue in NY court. He's trying to decide if it is a scam, contact insurance and let them deal with it, or settle. Seems very setup up that they got just the right picture of his boat (telephoto?) and then a possible staged interior showing claimed injuries.

Anyone have similar experiences and how did it work out. How can you defend against a possible scam without spending a lot of money or getting your insurance jacked up?
 
hpogue123 said:
Does anyone have experience defending against wake damage? I have a friend who is fighting one now on Ct. coast. He is based out of Boston and traveling through Long Island Sound off Fishers Island in an Albin trawler.
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First I believe they can not bring him in NY as a MA resident, they must sue in MA. He has no business in NY or nexus



that likely means different lawyer from MA.


Second when a lawyer asks for a specific amount like that he has no experience in injury law.

I would just sit do nothing until served with court papers.


Bet it goes away
 
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