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Old 07-15-2010, 06:35 AM   #41
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Rick,You've got some great ideas, but the fender idea is not one of them


Putting that much pressure on my oil pan would probably crush it or at least bend it. I wouldn't recommend that procedure.
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:47 AM   #42
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Quote:
timjet wrote:Boatdiesel.com cost nothing to browse.
Actually, as a guest, there isn't that much to see. Most all of it is blocked. It also looks like some very odd forum sofware. It doesn't look categorized. Just looks like a list. I definately would ante up if the content is there, the problem is that I can't see enough to know the intrinsic value. (Did I spell that right?)
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Old 07-15-2010, 07:42 AM   #43
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Outboard repair forum?

Quote:
timjet wrote:Putting that much pressure on my oil pan would probably crush it or at least bend it. I wouldn't recommend that procedure.
"I cut a piece of 3/4 ply about 1" square that fits on the oil pan where the jack will push on ..."

*Do the math ...


-- Edited by RickB on Thursday 15th of July 2010 07:44:47 AM
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:15 AM   #44
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Rick,That 1" x 1" ply piece I am referring to fits on the engine block where the oil pan attaches to the engine block, NOT the underneath portion of the oil pan.
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:23 AM   #45
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

GonzoF1,

Since I'm not a guest I'm not sure how much you can see. I do remember though that before I joined I was able to view all the subjects, but not all the replies.


I'm not sure what you are referring to when you mentioned organization. There are 8 sub*categories in the Perkins forums.


I found boatdiesel.com very helpful perhaps some won't in which case it would be a waste of money.
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:52 AM   #46
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Outboard repair forum?

Quote:
timjet wrote:

Rick,
That 1" x 1" ply piece I am referring to fits on the engine block where the oil pan attaches to the engine block, NOT the underneath portion of the oil pan.
Do the math.

If you have a fender that when inflated enough to contact the oil pan*over an area about the size of your shoe print* and inflate it to about 15 psi you will be able to lift around 600 pounds, probably the entire weight of your engine and transmission with only 15 pounds on each square inch of your oil pan. That thing isn't made of aluminum foil and I have yet to see a small engine that can't sit happily on its oil pan without damage, even when there is not the full contact an inflatable bladder will provide.

I can't count the number of times I have jacked up an engine to change mounts or work on the accessory drives and simply blocked it up with a 2X4 slipped across the bed rails under the pan for safety and to be able to remove the jack. The last time I used the fender trick because I couldn't get a jack far enough aft to do what I needed to do.

All you have to do is back off the forward engine mount nuts and take a small portion of the weight of the engine. Since all you need to do is to take the weight off a bolt, it will probably only require a few psi on the fender.


-- Edited by RickB on Thursday 15th of July 2010 08:58:32 AM
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Old 07-15-2010, 09:26 AM   #47
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Rick,
I understand the way you are describing and it makes sense as long as the area underneath the oil pan that is supporting the fender is flat or can be made so.
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Old 07-15-2010, 09:42 AM   #48
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Quote:
timjet wrote:

Rick,
I understand the way you are describing and it makes sense as long as the area underneath the oil pan that is supporting the fender is flat or can be made so.
Flat has very little to do with it.* The fender spreads the load over an uneven surface as well.* It works.

*
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Old 07-15-2010, 10:17 AM   #49
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Outboard repair forum?

It can be any shape, the bladder is conformal.* Even if you put a piece of plywood between them, the almost vertical sides of the oil pan will support the engine.*

The sides of the pan are (almost certainly) sheet*steel and are*in compression. They are*held in column by the bottom of the block and the bottom of the pan. That is why you can sit that engine on the parking lot on its pan and not do any damage. It is why a 2X4 slipped under the pan from side to side will support the engine with no damage either, despite its being supported by only a very small area.

Why do you think a boat doesn't just collapse into a heap when it is lowered onto keel blocks?




-- Edited by RickB on Thursday 15th of July 2010 10:20:09 AM
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:03 AM   #50
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Rick,
You've got some great ideas, but the fender idea is not one of them.

The origional system was used in the late 50's with a simple inner tube to pull VW and Porsche engines by back yard wrenches.

BTDT
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:06 AM   #51
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Quote:
FF wrote:

The origional system was used in the late 50's with a simple inner tube to pull VW and Porsche engines by back yard wrenches.
Yeah, but physics was different back then and oil pans were made by real men for real men.*
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Old 07-17-2010, 05:45 AM   #52
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

It certainly should work. Over here in Aus, 4 wheel drivers use a type of inflatable bellows type of jack inflated by exhaust gas to get out of 'sticky' situations. They can lift huge weights and with no damage to bodywork for reasons Rick & JD mentioned.
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Old 07-17-2010, 06:30 AM   #53
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Hiya,
** FF,* what's this business of inner tubes for pulling VW engines?* I've pulled at least 50 VW engines without the inner tube (other than my belly)
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Old 07-17-2010, 06:45 AM   #54
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Quote:
RT Firefly wrote:I've pulled at least 50 VW engines without the inner tube (other than my belly)
Now there's an image to make you rub your eyes!

*

*
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:50 PM   #55
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Outboard repair forum?

Quote:
RickB wrote:

*


If you have a fender that when inflated enough to contact the oil pan*over an area about the size of your shoe print* and inflate it to about 15 psi you will be able to lift around 600 pounds, probably the entire weight of your engine and transmission with only 15 pounds on each square inch of your oil pan.


I am willing to bet a 6BT Cummins and it's transmission weigh a bit more than 600 pounds.....double that and then add all of the accessories(turbocharger,etc) and you will be around 1500lbs....without the tranny.


-- Edited by Baker on Monday 19th of July 2010 01:55:39 PM
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Old 07-19-2010, 02:16 PM   #56
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Quote:
RickB wrote:


RT Firefly wrote:
Now there's an image to make you rub your eyes!

*

*Or make something pucker for sure.



*
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Old 07-19-2010, 03:39 PM   #57
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Well, just up the pressure until the weight is off the bolt then.
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:29 PM   #58
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Marin,Re: your 2nd post on page 3.
Two thirds of my oil changes are without changing the filter. I reason the filter can collect far more dirt than it can collect over several oil changes. When I change oil I change the filter every third time. Over half the time changing oil is so easy I'm more prone to do it. The oil after the change looks the same and totally clean even when I don't change the filter.
About the used gaskets in the OB carb * ... out here in the wilderness (we are in the wilderness) fixing things so they work properly is more important than doing things in the ideal way.
By the way * * ..Tom and Jan left Thorne Bay this morning for Ketchikan where they intend to spend a few days while a weather system passes through.


Eric
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:13 PM   #59
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

Marin,
Re: your 2nd post on page 3.
Two thirds of my oil changes are without changing the filter. I reason the filter can collect far more dirt than it can collect over several oil changes.
Well, you do as you like.* If you like leaving dirt in the engine after you add new oil, have at it.* I have yet to have a mechanic (automotive, aircraft, marine) tell me that fresh oil is bad for an engine or leaving dirt in it after you change the oil is good.* Given the practially free cost of an oil filter compared to all the other costs of operating a car/plane/boat, not changing the oil filter when you change the oil seems*to me a totally*pointless thing to do.

As to re-using a gasket, sure, if you don't have a new one an old one is better than nothing although one runs the risk of having a problem if the old gasket doesn't seal up as well as it should.* This is why if I think I'm going to be somewhere where parts are hard to come by I try to carry things like gaskets for stuff I think might cause a problem while I'm out*there.* They don't weigh anything, they don't take up enough room to worry about, and they're cheap.

The other reason for doing this is because anything you have spares for will never crap out on you in the boonies.* Only the things you don't have a spare forwill crap out.* So when I took my still-new Land Rover to the Yukon for a couple of months back in the 1970s I carried spares for all sorts of things-- brakes, carburetor, fuel pump, and on and on and on.* The only thing that gave us a bit of a problem near the end of the trip was the slave cylinder for the clutch, which I didn't have a spare for.

*
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:46 AM   #60
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Quote:
GonzoF1 wrote:

Is boatdiesel.com really worth it? I've been looking for a good resource for info on my older Perkins 6.354, but really haven't found one yet.
Gonzo,* these engines are dirt simple, what do you want to know?.......................Arctic Traveller

*
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