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Old 07-13-2010, 02:24 PM   #21
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

That is exactly what was going on with mine. You see not getting enough fuel....I say it is getting too much fuel(float sticking). That is why it starts when it is cold. Has nothing to do with temperature and everything to do with the carb not being full of fuel. I am thinking a carb rebuild is your best bet. I was battling this problem and tried to avoid the rebuild and was getting ready to when the motor got stolen. I sure hope those thieves are having a hard time with it!!!
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:30 PM   #22
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Since you say it runs fine when it's running, it could be a fuel problem or it could be an ignition problem. You shut it down, an ignition module heats up and a connection gets broken. But from your description I would suspect a fuel problem.

There are so-called carb cleaners on the market. I have no idea if they're any good or not. Once something gets gummed up good it seems to take an overhaul to clear it properly, but perhaps someone has had good luck with an off-the-shelf carb cleaner to remove long-set varnish and gum.

John's earlier suggestion of a stuck carburetor float is as valid a suggestion as any. We had that problem on our little Yamaha 4-stroke that's on our Livingston dinghy. If it sat for a few weeks it wouldn't start until I whacked the carburetor with the handle of a screwdriver at which point it would start right up. Since the only moving parts in there are the float and the float valve, I figured one or the other or both was the problem. Eventually got tired of doing the screwdriver whack and took the carburetor apart and replaced the float assembly and float valve. That cured that problem. And we now run the motor out of fuel every time we come home from a cruise and this seems to have helped a lot with respect to the next startup.

Based on your description it sounds like it needs more than a carb adjustment and new plugs. If it was me I'd take it to a shop that knows what they're doing and make sure they understand that a carb adjustment and new plugs ain't gonna do it. But if you're adept with tools and know how to take the thing apart and put it back together or have the shop manual and you feel like messing with it yourself I'd say take the carb apart and clean it and the jets and the float mechanism and float valve thoroughly (I assume 2-cycles have carb floats and valves) as a first step.

This suggestion is based purely on speculation. The problem could be any one of a bunch of things.
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Old 07-13-2010, 03:24 PM   #23
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

The dealer should sell a carb rebuild kit.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:23 PM   #24
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Which is probably the best idea.

Considering it sat for a couple of years with gas in it, there are fuel deposits on everything exposed to liquid fuel. The refill with ethanol* blended fuel did a great job of loosening all those deposits and delivering them to the tiny little passages in your carburetor.

If you are handy, flush the fuel system as much as possible, pull the carb and clean it as best you can and see how it goes. Once you get past the solvent stage of the new fuel, life will improve. Make sure you run the carb dry from now on and don't leave fuel sitting anywhere in the system for longer than a few weeks.
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Old 07-13-2010, 04:27 PM   #25
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

It actually only sat for the winter with fuel in it, not a couple years.
I typically flush it and run it dry after each use in the salt.
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Old 07-13-2010, 08:11 PM   #26
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Outboard repair forum?

I brought my merc 6 HP to the dealer. they cleaned the carb the tech said if I was to leave it for a while to not only run it dry but to loosen the screw on the carb bowl and drain whatever remained after running it "dry". I haven't done so yet.
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-- Edited by Steve on Tuesday 13th of July 2010 08:12:46 PM
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Old 07-13-2010, 09:06 PM   #27
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

My OB guy here says just take it apart and clean it set the float ect and reassemble w old gaskets.

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Old 07-13-2010, 09:21 PM   #28
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

My OB guy here says just take it apart and clean it set the float ect and reassemble w old gaskets.
I'd be curious to know his reasoning.* I mean, you have the thing apart so why use the old gaskets and run the risk of a poor fit and having fuel leak into some part of the carburetor it's not suppose to leak into?* Why not install new gaskets?* It's not like they cost and arm and a leg.

Strikes me that it's a bit like changing the oil in your engine but leaving the old oil filter in place to dump a quart or more of dirty oil into your new oil.

*
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Old 07-14-2010, 04:18 AM   #29
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

It actually only sat for the winter with fuel in it, not a couple years.
I typically flush it and run it dry after each use in the salt.



But the passages in a tiny engine are smaller and take far less to plug.

Out method is to take the carb apart , put the plastic stuff aside and plunk all the meatal parts in lacker thginner.

An hour or two and most times simply blowing thru and eyeballing that the passages are open does the trick.

Modern gas is pure garbage , but there are simple workarounds.

Use Av gas , even the low lead may foul the plugs , but plug cleaning is usually far easier than carb rebuilding. Use a tiny remote tank not a big 6 gal , and mix the oil in as its needed.

Fuel over 1 month can probably be dumped thru your car gas tank, instead of on the ground.

You must empty the fuel system , beat is too yank the carb , blow it clear and reassemble before storage.
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:21 AM   #30
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

As with other posters, I habitually ran my Yammy 2 cycle out of fuel after every use. It was always 10 pulls to start, but this winter I took it in and the mechanic changed the plugs, gear oil and impeller, said it should be ready to go, but when he started it, 10 pulls, it idled rough, so he pulled the carbs, soaked them to get all those little passages clear, kitted them and after that it was a two pull start and idled well.
I also habitually put fuel stabilizer in the tank, just to avoid those problems.
get the carbs cleaned and kitted!
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:42 AM   #31
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Outboard repair forum?

I wish I could afford to have someone look at all my mechanical problems. I can't so the first thing I do is:

Engine related: Boatdiesel.com
Outboard related: iboats.com
Boat related: trawlerforum.com

When you hire someone to fix something the reason generally falls into 2*categories.
1. Don't have the knowledge to repair it.
2. Don't want to or can't.

So far I have been able to fix everything myself. However I know there will be some things I just can't do, not due to know how, I've already figured out the problem from the above web sites, but access. There are some things on my boat that a 6'3" guy just can't get to.

It would kill me to pay some shop $250 to install a carb rebuild kit in an outboard simply because I didn't want to take the time to figure out the problem myself. If you have the perseverance, someone at the above web sites will help you figure out the problem. You also gain the knowledge from repairing things yourself that makes you much more self reliant.

An example. I must change the raw water pump on my Cummins diesel. After attempting to do the job myself, I found I could not gain access to the lower attachment bolt. Boatdiesel.com told me I had to remove the engine mounting bracket and this gives you access to the lower bolt, no other way to do this. Now I may not be up to this for you must use a jack to relieve the weight of the engine on the mounting assembly in order to remove the bracket. With this knowledge, if I hire a mechanic I will at least know the proper procedure rather than spend an hour of two of the mechanics time while he figures out how to do it.

Just my thoughts.




-- Edited by timjet on Wednesday 14th of July 2010 09:18:44 AM
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:24 AM   #32
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Timjet, kind of off topic, but I recently had*to remove the transmission for re-building and had the same dilemna.* I did not have any good surface to jack the engine from, so I put a long timber across the salon floor, spreading the load as far as possible, drilled a hole above the engine hoist ring, installed all-thread and a coupler, put on a couple washers and a nut and tightened the nut to raise the engine up.* Worked pretty well.
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:01 PM   #33
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Max,That was quite a project.


Mine is made difficult because of access. My Carver has lots of engine and little space for it.


The clearance between the oil pan where it's attached to the block of the engine (the lifting point where the jack pushes up on) barely has enough clearance between that point and the inside hull for the smallest bottle jack I could find. I cut a piece of 3/4 plywood into a section 4" x 4" and attached a strip of 3/4 thick plywood about 1" wide to the 4 x 4 piece at the lower end to make it level. The bottle jack fits more or less level on the 4 x 4 piece. I cut a piece of 3/4 ply about 1" square that fits on the oil pan where the jack will push on. It's a bit flimsy and not sure it will work. I need a socket or end wrench to loosen the engine mount bolt nut and I didn't have one large enough, so will go back next weekend with the proper size socket and try again.
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:15 PM   #34
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Deflate a fender that will fit between the oil pan and the hull then reinflate it enough to raise the engine.
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:31 PM   #35
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Rick,
Now thats an idea.
Rescue workers use airbags to lift cars and even things larger. Saw a savlage crew on one of those reality TV shows use giant air bags to lift a barge

SD
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Old 07-14-2010, 02:46 PM   #36
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

If Rick's fender idea works, I would sure like to hear about it.
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Old 07-14-2010, 03:20 PM   #37
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Just make sure the engine is blocked to support it before removing any bolts or working under it.

You don't want the fender holding the thing any longer than necessary and certainly not to hold it off your fingers or hands.
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:13 PM   #38
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Our diesel shop uses a variety of techniques to lift and support engines when changing mounts or doing work that requires the engines to be lifted. Depending on the boat's configuration they use bottle jacks, chain hoists, heavy-duty airbags built for this kind of job, and often a very handy tool called a Porta-Power.

This is a manually operated hydraulic system that can be used to power a variety of accessories to lift things, push things apart, pull things together, pry things apart, etc. I bought one years ago for a specific job that I was told might or might not require it. Naturally, since I bought the thing, I didn't need it. But it's a pretty neat device for the kinds of jobs its designed to do. Apparently our diesel shop uses it a lot.
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Old 07-15-2010, 05:21 AM   #39
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Is boatdiesel.com really worth it? I've been looking for a good resource for info on my older Perkins 6.354, but really haven't found one yet.
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Old 07-15-2010, 06:30 AM   #40
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RE: Outboard repair forum?

Boatdiesel.com cost nothing to browse. The Perkins forums have 8 sub-categories.In my case I have gained much knowledge about my high*performance*Cummins diesel and saved a bunch of money to boot because of boatdiesel.com.
I believe it was $50 to join for a year. I've saved that money and much much more by the info I've gained from that web site.
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