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Old 09-24-2016, 07:05 PM   #21
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Imagine if cars still had carburetors? No thanks , have one hot rid left with carbs and its always taking attention that I have never seen in any of the fuel injected engines since those early days. Go fuel injections for sure...
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Old 09-24-2016, 08:20 PM   #22
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With either system, I disconnect the fuel line and run the system dry of fuel after use. Never had an issue with fuel going bad in either type of motor.

Ted
This my operation procedure. As to choice, EFI every time, However in my case, I purchase old O/B 2 strokes because of use in hours vs cost. Purchasing a new 6 hp 4 stroke can run around $2500 plus or minus, where as I can located and purchase a little used 6 hp Evenrude or Johnson for anywhere between $300-600 dollars. (Craigslist).
My 'Git-a-Home' OB is an older four stroke 9.9 Yamaha with carb. given an opportunity a replacement (used) would be EFI. Still, I would run the fuel supply hose dry on shutting down.
It is the corn in the standing gas that causes the grief.

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Old 09-24-2016, 09:06 PM   #23
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Depending on how far away from a repair facility I will be would make the decision. We had a newer 4 stroke efi suzuki on the one nordhavns I have cruised on...and had issues with it from califonia to florida.. if it had been a carbed motor I have no doubt I could of fixed it..the efi motor I never could get right. They are very fuel sensitive. I always keep a eye open for good condition yamaha 10/15 hp freshwater use motors to use a dinght motors as they are dead reliable. I had one thst was sunk in salt water 20' deep overnight.. flushed it out and ran it for a additional 10 years...try that with a efi motor!

If staying domestic.. efi motors are great and fuel effecient. Service isnt far away so the issue of having it worked on becomes no problem.
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Old 09-24-2016, 10:00 PM   #24
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I would normally agree.....but this last time, my yammie 8hp 4 stroke required 3 cleanings in an ultrasonic cleaner.

I had dismantled ir 5 times with the same poor idle..only the cleaner and special sauce got her working.

Without access to an ultrasonic cleaner...that carb wouldn't respond so it could have been fuel injected with the same negative rexponse.
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Old 09-24-2016, 11:57 PM   #25
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I would normally agree.....but this last time, my yammie 8hp 4 stroke required 3 cleanings in an ultrasonic cleaner.

I had dismantled ir 5 times with the same poor idle..only the cleaner and special sauce got her working.

Without access to an ultrasonic cleaner...that carb wouldn't respond so it could have been fuel injected with the same negative rexponse.
My Yamaha 9.9 4-stroke was the same way. Numerous carb clean/rebuilds, finally a new carb. Lots of excuses from the dealer and repair guys about 'tiny' jets and passages. I got rid of it. I now have a 2-stroke Evinrude 9.9 that starts instantly, is lighter and faster.
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Old 09-25-2016, 10:33 AM   #26
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So I think I can boil down the consensus:

Little motors like 6-15, go carb two stroke.

Larger motors like 25up, if you want to go four stroke, go three cyl and EFI.

15-25 is a grey area. Gas mileage advantage of a four stroke over a two stroke get a bit more important here than on the little ones. Just avoid the four stroke two cylinders there, big and rough, but too small I think for anyone to make a three cyl. On my dock is a new merc 30, it's a EFI three and runs real nice. Think it a relabled Tohatsu.

If you are venturing far and wide with sketchy fuel supplies, a Yamaha Enduro carb two stroke is the way to go. Just can't buy them stateside. May have to wait til you get to your first foreign port of entry.
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Old 09-25-2016, 01:10 PM   #27
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So I think I can boil down the consensus:

Little motors like 6-15, go carb two stroke.

Larger motors like 25up, if you want to go four stroke, go three cyl and EFI.

15-25 is a grey area. Gas mileage advantage of a four stroke over a two stroke get a bit more important here than on the little ones. Just avoid the four stroke two cylinders there, big and rough, but too small I think for anyone to make a three cyl. On my dock is a new merc 30, it's a EFI three and runs real nice. Think it a relabled Tohatsu.

If you are venturing far and wide with sketchy fuel supplies, a Yamaha Enduro carb two stroke is the way to go. Just can't buy them stateside. May have to wait til you get to your first foreign port of entry.
Ski - I looked up Yamaha Enduro. Sounds good; thanks for posting.

Still, regarding my decades of exceptional-luck with gool ol' Johnson and Evinrude 1960's thru 1990's two strokes (3 hp to 100 hp)... buck for buck, mileage for mileage, simplicity for simplicity, longevity for longevity - well you get the picture.

1975 50 hp. Johnson that we've had powering our Crestliner runabout for seven years has needed only a new starter, low-end fluid change, one tune up, and a couple new impellers. As with all the others I've owned... this little mid range hp. Johnson o/b is a joy to own and use.

BTW - Tuned-up and carb adjusted correctly she runs smooth at idle and through its full range to WOT.
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Old 09-25-2016, 01:53 PM   #28
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That 50hp OMC two cyl looper was a neat motor in a few ways. My Dad had one that replaced a Merc 50 4cyl and the gas mileage improvement was incredible. We needed two six gal cans to do our thing with the merc. Once we got confident with the OMC, we just carried one and did the same thing. Quiet and faster than the merc, but the merc was 20yr old at the time and she was feeling her age.

The OMC finally died, but not the motor. It was the power trim system that was really a POS from the start. Bad design. But the motor was still doing fine when traded in. Without power trim, it would have lasted much longer. But as a flats skiff, PT is God!!
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Old 09-25-2016, 03:02 PM   #29
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15-25 is a grey area. Gas mileage advantage of a four stroke over a two stroke get a bit more important here than on the little ones. Just avoid the four stroke two cylinders there, big and rough, but too small I think for anyone to make a three cyl. On my dock is a new merc 30, it's a EFI three and runs real nice. Think it a relabled Tohatsu.

Our Suzuki 15 is 4-stroke, EFI, 2 cylinders... runs fairly decent. Almost silent at idle, a bit of vibration at slow speeds, smooths out better at slightly higher speeds. We haven't run it much, though, since we lost our pooch...

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Old 09-25-2016, 03:07 PM   #30
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That 50hp OMC two cyl looper was a neat motor in a few ways. My Dad had one that replaced a Merc 50 4cyl and the gas mileage improvement was incredible. We needed two six gal cans to do our thing with the merc. Once we got confident with the OMC, we just carried one and did the same thing. Quiet and faster than the merc, but the merc was 20yr old at the time and she was feeling her age.

The OMC finally died, but not the motor. It was the power trim system that was really a POS from the start. Bad design. But the motor was still doing fine when traded in. Without power trim, it would have lasted much longer. But as a flats skiff, PT is God!!
Our fairly deep V mono hull Crestliner has stationary-set (yet mechanically adjustable) trim tabs on her. With them as well as the o/b's pin-trim set in good position the Johnson o/b and boat complement each other flawlessly. Where in... getting on plane is really quick and the boat cruises at correct trim/angle during all rpm. There is no power trim. The engine and boat are still almost like new. They were an original matched pair in 1975. 14'8" Crestliner "Stinger" only weighs about 400 lbs. Top speed is 39.5 knots with just me. She cruises all day at a gentle lope of 25 knots with both Linda and me. I calculate at that gentle speed she gets 21 nmpg +/-. For use in SF Delta's relatively calm fresh waters she's a great tow behind runabout we take everywhere we go.
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Old 09-25-2016, 06:03 PM   #31
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That's a peach of a boat there Art!

Ski another similar engine was the three cyl 55hp OMC. I had a Johnson on my experimental boat. Burned 3gph and needed next to nothing maint wise. Ran it a bit in the Queen Charlotte Is a bit then up to Juneau. Made several trips to Glaicer Bay and lots of short trips around Juneau. Then moved south and ran the boat on her bottom. Some running around the Everett/Marysville area and to Poulsbo ect. Hauled her out and in the spring she made it to the Skagit River Flats and the points gave out. Anchored and dinked to call my wife to bring tools. She ran perfect all the time. Loved the sound of the tripple working. Kind of an OB version of a Jimmie.

This engine had an electric solenoid shifter and it did'nt give trouble like some others did. I loved the shifter. Engaged the gear w probably less than 10% of lever travel. The large movement of the throttle made the engine a joy to control. Unlike my present 60hp Suzuki that requires extreme concentration to half gracefully run the boat. It uses about half the throttle movement to just shift. And I'll bet the 60 weighs 150lbs more than the 55. The 55 burned considerably more fuel but being a looper was better than most all the older tech engines of that day.
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Old 09-25-2016, 08:10 PM   #32
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That's a peach of a boat there Art!
Thanks, Eric.

Back in the day... One of the best and most fuel efficient Johnsons I had was 1964 model on 1962 13'3" Boston Whaler. Great engine!
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Old 09-27-2016, 05:58 AM   #33
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"Back in the day... One of the best and most fuel efficient Johnsons I had was 1964 model on 1962 13'3" Boston Whaler. Great engine!"

Which could have its carb cleaned with no parts required , and repaired anywhere in the world.

EFI is great , but it requires a dealer to fix.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:27 AM   #34
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"Back in the day... One of the best and most fuel efficient Johnsons I had was 1964 model on 1962 13'3" Boston Whaler. Great engine!"

Which could have its carb cleaned with no parts required , and repaired anywhere in the world.

EFI is great , but it requires a dealer to fix.
Our current "Loop Charged" 1975 50 hp. Johnson o/b is very similar to the 1964 40 horse I mentioned a few posts previously (and is quoted in post above) ... in that... we use it at will with no big problems. So far. while nearing a decade of play time, it's needed a new seal for low end fluid, new starter, semi annual low end fluid change, new spark plugs, and a new impeller about every three years. Not too shabby for a now 41 year old o/b that powers our tow behind [1975] Crestliner runabout at 3300 +/- rpm doing 25 knots on (often multiple) cruises of fifty or more miles each, nearly every time we're out and about on our 1977 Tolly.

"Old School" builds and mechanical items are also "Good School" builds/items if correctly chosen for sturdy initial manufacturing-build-out, good prior-owner maintenance, strong remaining condition... and then of course... good continued care with thoughtful usage parameters. Using only in freshwater is also great for o/b longevity.

Fred's correct! - "... carb cleaned with no parts required , and repaired anywhere in the world.

EFI is great , but it requires a dealer to fix.
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Old 09-27-2016, 08:44 AM   #35
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So are there ANY options for small outboard below 10HP with EFi?
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:01 AM   #36
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You really can't beat an old school 2 stroke outboard for a dingy, the problem is they haven't been sold here in the US and Canada in a long time and the used market is getting light in addition many were run in saltwater for over 10 years.
Having watched many a dockmate buy these nice shiny (insert brand) 4 strokes with carbs to only have to bring them back under warranty for carb work (told the EPA tolerances from leaning out is the issue).
With that when we bought a new rib along with plenty of research went with the 20hp Suzuki EFI and I have to say not one issue (knock wood), one pull and that's it. Like when cars went from carbs to EFI there was plenty of nay sayers, since I have an old 70's car in the garage and newer Honda's, there is no way anyone would stay with that technology today.
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:16 AM   #37
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IMHO - Whenever looking into purchase of older o/b, be it carbed or EFI, it is best to learn weather it was used in freshwater or salt water. If used in saltwater... then to be sure the engine was well flushed clean with fresh water immediately after each usage. Also, IMO, if an o/b was left sitting in salt water for much time without being in raised position - "Forget About It"!
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Old 09-27-2016, 09:18 AM   #38
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So are there ANY options for small outboard below 10HP with EFi?

The new-ish Suzuki DF9.9B is EFI. Same platform as the DF15A and the DF20A.

Used to be 2-stroke 10s/15s were built on the same platform, but 4-stroke 8s/10s were on one platform and 15s/20s on another. Suzuki combining 10/15/20 on the same platform is a little unusual. Also means the 9.9 weighs the same as the 15 and 20. OTOH, the 15s/20s are (last I checked) lighter than competition 15s/20s.

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Old 09-27-2016, 09:41 AM   #39
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Due to an unusual set of circumstances I ended up owningmore than a dozen outboards over the past 10 years or so.
While none of them were new many of them had extensivehours on them and were used often and not babied.
Some of the 2 strokes we had included 2, 3.3, 8 and 40hp. Some of the 4 strokes we had included a 4,40 115 and 150's.
Over all of these units used I have had to rebuild carbsat a fairly constant rate especially which is a pain and can be very awkwardwhen cruising - especially the triples. In all that time and all of myexperience I have not had an FI failure or any sort of issue with thosesystems. Each season we cruise with a "paper' boating club which includesat least 30-35 boats on 2-3 cruises a year. Since most all of these boats haveinflatable's/dinghies with similar outboards we can extend our experiences toinclude the fact that none of them experienced FI failures but many if not allhad carb rebuilds. I won't even try to get into the comparisons of the carbedvs fuel injected or 2 stroke vs 4 stroke units.
When we cruise we like to find places to anchor out thatare quite and not just visit marinas. One of the typical places that we visitis Hamburgh cove off the Essex river and others like it. I really like to takethe dinghy out both late at night and early in the mornings when the water isflat and maybe there is just a light steam coming off the water. I have foundthat starting a carbed two stroke on those occasions to be a real let down astheir noise wakes folks up, the smoke drifts over the area and the oil slickdisperses out along the waterway. On a number of occasions I was carrying a40hp carbed two stroke on the boat deck and also towing a 115 FI four strokebehind the boat. There was no question which I would select to go for anexploration or a trip to shore as the FI four stroke was almost silent,produced no billowing smoke at all and never left a slick.
Similarly I still have one carbed 'hotrod' in my garagewhich has and does require carb attention at least yearly but in the past 20plus years since fuel injection on the rest of my vehicles I have yet to see anFI failure.
Just one persons experience and a data point to add toothers.
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:19 AM   #40
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IMHO - Whenever looking into purchase of older o/b, be it carbed or EFI, it is best to learn weather it was used in freshwater or salt water. If used in saltwater... then to be sure the engine was well flushed clean with fresh water immediately after each usage. Also, IMO, if an o/b was left sitting in salt water for much time without being in raised position - "Forget About It"!
Art

I don't have the same fear of salt water.
I have had OBs in a salt environment since my first, bought in 1978. I have owned a fresh water flush attachment, which I used for a while on a used Johnson 15. thae OB dies a natural death, despite being flushed regularly. The circumstances of my moorage changed, I got lazy, I misplaced the flushing attachment and forgot about it.
Now, many years have passed, with 4 OB engines hanging off of my transom the past 35 years or so, never getting a fresh water flush. I have had no issues related to whether in salt or fresh water. My only issues were with carburated engines and ethanol in the gas. Now, with EFI, I have no issues at all.
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