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Old 02-05-2014, 01:06 PM   #41
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That may be true but I don't want a sail boat or planing for the next boat. Planing boats aren't very economical when compared to a FD.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:31 PM   #42
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Greetings,
Mr. b. A bit of thread drift but... Bertram 58 Flybridge MY $69K You'd
have SCADS of $$ "left over" to make changes and one hell-u-va delivery trip....
Bertram Yachts
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:59 PM   #43
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Full displacement - economy is a must as well as long range. (We're West Coasters and want to be able to go through Panama and use her as a winter home in FL or the likes) 6 knots is plenty fast for us. We can always equip her with a fast tender.
I wonder if you've fully considered the implications of that plan? The distance from Seattle WA to Miami FL via the Panama canal is 5,179 nautical miles each way or 10,358 nmi round trip. So, making the round trip once a year at 6 knots would require 1,726 hours underway, or 20% of the hours in a year. If you spend as many days in port between passages (waiting on weather etc.) as you spend underway, then you would spend 40% of the year or ~21 weeks in transit round trip. That leaves 30% of the year or 15.6 weeks in Washington and 15.6 weeks in Florida (or the Caribbean). In addition assuming your fuel burn per nautical mile is roughly the inverse of your average cost of fuel (i.e. $4/gallon * 0.25 gallons/nmi = $1/nmi), then your fuel cost will be $10,358 for the round trip.

I wonder if you might not be better off getting two boats for the same total cost and keeping one in the PNW and one in the Caribbean. If you're not making 5,000 nmi trips, then the boats wouldn't need to be as capable. One of the boats could be the one you already have. Then you could use the $10K that you would spend on fuel and fly first class and have $7.5K left over. If you keep the boat you're not using on the hard the $7.5K should cover the additional storage cost. You could spend a week getting each boat ready for storage and a week getting one ready to get underway and still have 24 weeks in the PNW and 24 weeks in the Caribbean.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:04 PM   #44
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I wonder if you've fully considered the implications of that plan? The distance from Seattle WA to Miami FL via the Panama canal is 5,179 nautical miles each way or 10,358 nmi round trip. So, making the round trip once a year at 6 knots would require 1,726 hours underway, or 20% of the hours in a year. If you spend as many days in port between passages (waiting on weather etc.) as you spend underway, then you would spend 40% of the year or ~21 weeks in transit round trip. That leaves 30% of the year or 15.6 weeks in Washington and 15.6 weeks in Florida (or the Caribbean). In addition assuming your fuel burn per nautical mile is roughly the inverse of your average cost of fuel (i.e. $4/gallon * 0.25 gallons/nmi = $1/nmi), then your fuel cost will be $10,358 for the round trip.

I wonder if you might not be better off getting two boats for the same total cost and keeping one in the PNW and one in the Caribbean. If you're not making 5,000 nmi trips, then the boats wouldn't need to be as capable. One of the boats could be the one you already have. Then you could use the $10K that you would spend on fuel and fly first class and have $7.5K left over. If you keep the boat you're not using on the hard the $7.5K should cover the additional storage cost. You could spend a week getting each boat ready for storage and a week getting one ready to get underway and still have 24 weeks in the PNW and 24 weeks in the Caribbean.

Now that's something to consider. We had talked about two and that is still on the board. However my full time or boat that I spend more time in I would like to search out the "ideal" boat for the family.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:15 PM   #45
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Krogen 42 or Willard 40. Don't think you can find a Nordhavn 40 in your budget range.

Also take a look at some of the smaller DeFevers.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:58 PM   #46
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You may well be surprised at the "economics" between planing and full displacement boats, especially at 7 knots or less. Research, a lot. Even gasoline is not that big of a deal at low speed. My 300 hp Merc Vee Rod outboard gets 10 mpg at 6 knots., and you cannot hear it running.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:10 PM   #47
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You may well be surprised at the "economics" between planing and full displacement boats, especially at 7 knots or less. Research, a lot. Even gasoline is not that big of a deal at low speed. My 300 hp Merc Vee Rod outboard gets 10 mpg at 6 knots., and you cannot hear it running.
Oh yes those veradoes are so quite you don't even know they're running. I went on a friends seavee with a pair of them, amazingly quiet!
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:59 PM   #48
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While I know I should leave this post alone I can not help myself to push the initiator with my same question regarding budget versus plan. At $175K for the boat it just doesn't sound like you did your homework or are willing to look at the true cost to complete your plans. OK, enough said since it is not my business.

Now back to boats. I agree the KK 42 is likely one of your better choices and maybe you will find one that works but I think a little change in plans and a serious semi-displacement boat could possibly work better. Keep researching and reading what others have accomplished, you may be surprised.

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Old 02-05-2014, 11:44 PM   #49
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While I know I should leave this post alone I can not help myself to push the initiator with my same question regarding budget versus plan. At $175K for the boat it just doesn't sound like you did your homework or are willing to look at the true cost to complete your plans. OK, enough said since it is not my business.

Now back to boats. I agree the KK 42 is likely one of your better choices and maybe you will find one that works but I think a little change in plans and a serious semi-displacement boat could possibly work better. Keep researching and reading what others have accomplished, you may be surprised.

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Personally I do not see a problem with the OP's budget.

There are plenty of really nice boats in his price range, and lower that would be quite suitable to go along the coastline, through the canal, and on from there.

We need to remember that this is coastal cruising, and darn near any boat could make the trip safely.

This is not passagemaking. It might seem like a long ways, but itys really a series of short hops between safe harbors.

It doesnt take a Nordhavn to do that.

I'll come right out and say it, my Bayliner 4788 could do it, and if I can ever convince the admrial I'll be happy to go in my boat.

If you guys would like I can post a link to a blog of a couple that spent years happily cruising from washington, down the coast and all through Mexico in a 41' or 42' President Sundeck.

Passagemakers have their place, but they are not necessary for coastal cruising.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:37 AM   #50
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Personally I do not see a problem with the OP's budget.
I would agree with this except that the OP wants an LRC that is a full displacement, with a back-up propulsion, Pilothouse, flybridge, washer & dryer, etc.

When reading the OP's original post, it was obvious to me that he wants a solid cruising boat. It seems like he was describing a Nordhavn but with a budget for an older semi displacement trawler.

Many suggested a KK42, but how many of them have get-home engines? My vote is to either change plans or save more money for an older N46 which fits your desires except that the cockpit would be very tight with 4 chairs.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:34 AM   #51
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I would agree with this except that the OP wants an LRC that is a full displacement, with a back-up propulsion, Pilothouse, flybridge, washer & dryer, etc.

When reading the OP's original post, it was obvious to me that he wants a solid cruising boat. It seems like he was describing a Nordhavn but with a budget for an older semi displacement trawler.

Many suggested a KK42, but how many of them have get-home engines? My vote is to either change plans or save more money for an older N46 which fits your desires except that the cockpit would be very tight with 4 chairs.

Hmmm... Nordhavn...

Why does everybody assume that a FD pilothouse trawler has to be a Nordhavn.

Hmmm...

Possibly he is describing a Defever 49 RPH

1978 Defever 49 Pilothouse Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1979 Defever Pilot House Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1980 Defever Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Or a Meridian 48' Pilot House

1974 Trojan Meridian Raised Pilothouse Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

or possibly a Sea Ranger pilothouse

1980 Sea Ranger Europa Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Maybe a Delta custom 50

1978 BoatYard 50 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Could be that a Choy Lee pilothouse fits the bill

1977 Cheoy Lee CL-50 World Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

and these boats are all within a couple hours drive of the OP right now. They are all capable, full displacement trawlers meeting his budget with room for fitting out.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:40 AM   #52
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Many suggested a KK42, but how many of them have get-home engines? My vote is to either change plans or save more money for an older N46 which fits your desires except that the cockpit would be very tight with 4 chairs.
Not disagreeing with your assessment but knowing all boats are a compromise it's fair to say none but the most affluent boaters get everything on their list. The most rigid requirement for most is budget.

Personally when looking at a list of desires if a model checks the majority of a posters wishes while staying within budget, I recommend it. Only the OP will ever determine if its workable or not. Had the OP stated a budget of up to $400k my recommendation would have been different.

I recall a magazine article back in the late 70's early 80's about a couple traveling across the Pacific from the west coast US to Bora Bora on a 34 or 36' MT double cabin with a Lehman 120. The boat was darn near a floating fuel can but made it there and back without incident. Without internet, chart plotter, GPS or professional weather router one wonders how they made it.
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Old 02-06-2014, 05:30 AM   #53
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My 300 hp Merc Vee Rod outboard gets 10 mpg at 6 knots., and you cannot hear it running.

And you can replace it with factory new for the price of a modern diesel brain box.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:16 AM   #54
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I'd suggest not shopping for a brand but go on to yacht world and search according to preferenced features. In almost 3000 surveys I have come across three boats (two trawlers, one sailboat) that I could find nothing wrong with and built to perfection. All three were homebuilt steel boats.
I think this is the right direction if budget and certain priorities are a must.

Production boats are usually the biggest of all the compromise boats unless they target a small group of boaters (like long range cruisers)...that's why just a few "wants" narrow the list so quickly.

When you don't want compromise in a boat, sometimes buying a custom boat is the best solution because someone else made sure the wants were there without paying for the frills in a production boat...thus you get what you want at a reduced cost.

Plus the resale price is lower because the buyer pool is smaller.

As boatpoker pointed out...I think overall you will get a boat closer to your "wants", probably as well or better built for your needs than many of the production jobs and one that meets the purchase budget even if it may take some money before it is restored to 100%.
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Old 02-06-2014, 09:56 AM   #55
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Ok so I have done some looking here Thoughts?
Four things:
  1. Did you go to the Seattle boat show?
  2. A trip to Juneau via AK State Ferry will allow you to assess on the big stage who brings what to the party.
  3. For years Waggoners Cruising Guide was written from the cabin of a 36 Tolly and Douglas/Hemingways Guides from a 37 Nordic Tug.
  4. FD vs SD has little to do with safety at sea (think crew capability first and foremost) or annual boating costs (lots more to it than GPH).
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:25 AM   #56
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Hmmm... Nordhavn...

Why does everybody assume that a FD pilothouse trawler has to be a Nordhavn.

Hmmm...

Possibly he is describing a Defever 49 RPH

1978 Defever 49 Pilothouse Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1979 Defever Pilot House Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1980 Defever Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Or a Meridian 48' Pilot House

1974 Trojan Meridian Raised Pilothouse Trawler Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

or possibly a Sea Ranger pilothouse

1980 Sea Ranger Europa Pilothouse Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Maybe a Delta custom 50

1978 BoatYard 50 Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Could be that a Choy Lee pilothouse fits the bill

1977 Cheoy Lee CL-50 World Cruiser Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

and these boats are all within a couple hours drive of the OP right now. They are all capable, full displacement trawlers meeting his budget with room for fitting out.
Bingo! I think you found the right boat in the Cheoy Lee. I keep thinking Nordhavn 46 because I just can't find any other FD, pilothouse,FB, single with get-home or twin boat out there that is somewhat affordable. But this Cheoy Lee fits the bill.

By the way the Defever 49 PH and Sea Ranger PH are nice boats but the OP is looking for a full displacement.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:59 AM   #57
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Mahal,
A lot of people on this forum THINK those boats are FD.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:06 AM   #58
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Greetings,
Mr. manyboats. So NONE of the boats listed in post #51 are full displacement? I'm still confused as to the concept in trying to determine whether mine is FD or not. I've been told it is....The bottom very closely resembles that of the Cheoy Lee 50'.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:21 AM   #59
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Mahal,
A lot of people on this forum THINK those boats are FD.
Perhaps the OP also???

I know I'm not looking at hull form, but a Defever 49 PH with 120 hp engines will never reach any sort of planing speeds.

I know I'm technically wrong here but I consider all of those boats to be FD.
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Old 02-06-2014, 11:26 AM   #60
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Greetings,
So NONE of the boats listed in post #51 are full displacement? I'm still confused as to the concept in trying to determine whether mine is FD or not.
Apparently Art DeFever was confused too. You are in very good company.

But Art didn't let it bother him, he just kept drawing efficient vessels that carry big loads, are safe at sea and will last forever.
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