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Old 02-04-2014, 09:19 PM   #21
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Forgot, most sportfishers over 45 feet have large tankage, neccessary for big hungry engines and long range fishing trips. My 48 sporty holds 1000 gallons of fuel, and 500 gallons of fresh water. With smaller more economical engines 2 mpg would not be hard to get, probably 3mpg at 6 knots. So, lets do the math. At 2mpg with 10 % reserve, thats about 1800 miles. Pretty good range I would say. Way more than most comparable size boats, trawlers and FDs included.
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:33 PM   #22
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Something Bill never mentioned is one engine or two, with the second engine being either a full size engine or a get home engine.

This will make a HUGE difference in that one question might eliminate allot of great boats.

Bill, are you comfortable in very remote places with one engine and no backup?

The next question is just as important. If you are going to travel with a partner (I do not know your marital status) is she comfortable with one engine.

Answer the engine question before you consider any other feature.

AND

To the inevitable one vs two arguments this will start, Please remember in this circumstance Bills is the only opinion that really counts.

Here's more food for thought Bill. The voyage you are talking about was recently completed by Larry, in a KK42. Read his posts. He traveled all that way and never HAD TO go over 300 miles between fuel stops.

You don't need a passagemaker for what you have planned. If you want one, thats fine, but realize that wanting and needing are two separate things.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:00 PM   #23
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DeFevers are not "true" full displacement. Our 48 is much more FD then SD though. Why the pilothouse requirement for night operation? I run mine 24/7 without a pilothouse. When it comes to engine rooms Art DeFever wrote the book.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:44 PM   #24
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Yup ... you can go to the Safeway store in your Ferrari or Humvee too but they aren't best for that duty at all. WAY unsuitable. Lots of better choices.

For long distance travel offshore a FD (or better a double ender) is by a considerable margin a better choice. And that's what Bill called for. Better seaworthyness better range greater comfort and better safety. Bill has the fortune of not having a boat and can pick and choose so why look at anything that isn't suitable for the job? The only reason I can think of is if no really good deep sea boat is available. Bill's on the right track thinking this through and I hope he keeps his eye on the ball.

Sounds to me like a W40 or KK42 is perfect for the job. To it's credit the KK has no FB but the W40 does. And as somebody pointed out Soto's W40 is availible but I don't know his price.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:59 PM   #25
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Lots of great feedback so far. Great suggestion for a sport fisher but I already have a sport fisher. What blew me away recently was reading that the new KK39 carries 700 gallons and at a pace of 6 knots can go over 4000 miles with a 10% reserve. Now - I am not going 4000 miles between fuel ups but it certainly gives one choices when and where they are going to be fueling. As well - that translates to 5.7 knots per gallon of fuel. I am looking for something that is going to be safe, retain value, something I can enjoy for a long term ownership, my family will not outgrow, well built. There are certain things I am will to coincide such as a pilot house but will not remove the cock pit as we enjoy having a direct walk out from the salon to the cock pit area for entertaining, enjoying our sundowners etc. I like the flow of the door on the stern with chairs on the back. The cabin trunk just doesn't appeal to me or my wife. Oh-so far she and I are on the same page for wants/needs.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:19 PM   #26
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The Krogen trawlers, especially the 42, and even more so the 54, (the OLD models) are my most favorite boats by far. Resale value is good, the look will never go out of style, economical to operate, etc. There are usually a few on the market. But, it is a VERY buyer beware boat. In the last 15 years I have read a disturbing number of posts on boating (mostly trawler) forums concerning Krogen trawlers. Mostly to do with inferior repairs of just about every kind, including multiple questions (and poorly given advice) about injecting epoxy (or poly) into rotten cores and deck plywood instead of doing the job correctly. Of course this happens with older boats of every kind, but, Krogens are held to a higher standard. After all, thats one of the main reasons for there resale value.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:50 PM   #27
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Would steel decks be preferable?

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Old 02-04-2014, 11:56 PM   #28
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What blew me away recently was reading that the new KK39 carries 700 gallons and at a pace of 6 knots can go over 4000 miles with a 10% reserve. Now - I am not going 4000 miles between fuel ups but it certainly gives one choices when and where they are going to be fueling. As well - that translates to 5.7 knots per gallon of fuel.
Those numbers are not accurate at all. The best you can hope for is about 3.5-4 MPG that works out to 2200+- miles. We burn 1.9 gph at 6.8 knots at 48' LOA 30 tons. Those are stunning numbers. In the end it's not about fuel burn with any of these choices. It's about all the little things that makes the boat talk to you. You will know when you found the right boat.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:01 AM   #29
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With a budget of $175K and your ambitious plans you may want to reconsider both the boat and plans. Being a current boater you should have some idea of the costs you are likely facing and the type of boat required for a safe journey. Will your post purchase budget last the duration you have planned? Even if you find a boat for $175K how much reserve do you have for outfitting, repairs and getting the boat safe to travel thousands of miles.

What if you tweaked your plans to closer to home cruising and find a clean, well built, single engine smaller boat that you can do some serious coastal cruising? In the end you may up having a better time without being stressed out worrying about matching your dream to your budget. Another option may be a capable sailboat? I have seen many people with dreams larger then their budget ending up selling their boat before they even got started. Just my two cents worth.

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Old 02-05-2014, 12:13 AM   #30
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The KKs and Nordys rate very high but may be out of your price range.
The De Fever RPH of 48 ft and above provided they have the smaller engines, adequate fuel capacity and stabilisers, would be a VG choice.

By the time you retire 1. You may have some more money or 2. Some of the older Ns and KKs may be in your price range.

Re flybridge.
I cruise the Great Barrier Reef here in Australia all the time , have done for the last 18 years. Don't require a flybridge but an adequate back deck room for a small table and a couple of chairs is important for sitting around at the end of the day, near the duckboard for swimming and relaxing.
Oh and by the way near the drink frig.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:10 AM   #31
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Those numbers are not accurate at all. The best you can hope for is about 3.5-4 MPG that works out to 2200+- miles. We burn 1.9 gph at 6.8 knots at 48' LOA 30 tons. Those are stunning numbers. In the end it's not about fuel burn with any of these choices. It's about all the little things that makes the boat talk to you. You will know when you found the right boat.
Umm, when I calculated my numbers there are a few caveats I should explain.

1. Because I don't have a reliable program to give me actual distance traveled revert time, I will also use polar view to calculate the distance using the planner. This means that my actual distance will be higher then reported. So for the 700 nm, it wouldn't surprise me if it was actually 5% higher.

2. My calculated fuel burn also includes roughly an hour per day of going no where as I anchor, haul anchor, look at the sky, etc. On a passage, I would not have that waste.

3. With all that said, my 4 nm/gal is therefore pretty conservative.

4. If I reduce speed to 1400 rpm, that's about 5.5 kts and fuel burn will be about 1.1 gal/hr.
Let's see, 5.5 nm/hr divided by 1.1 gal/hr =
5.0 nm/gal times 700 gal = 3500 nm range.

So yes, those 39' numbers are possible.

Lastly, on the two engines versus one, I was/am willing to give up the security of a second engine to get the efficiency of one engine.

FOR ME, ,there was no point in getting a boat that I could not afford to put fuel in to go all the places we want to go. Even now, having to be in one place for a month drives me crazy. That's why I'm up at 2 a.m. posting to tf.

And that comment about the wet exhaust was a bit flippant.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:09 AM   #32
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Not sure which comment about wet exhaust you found flippant.

Some twins are pretty darn close in fuel burn such as Daddyo's DeFever...but most aren't to get the numbers down to what you are doing (then again most people won't travel at 5.2 knots except in some unusual circumstances...thus why 18 knot Ranger tugs are selling pretty well).
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:39 AM   #33
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I have not tried travelling at less than 7 knots in my trawler. At 7 I get about 3 mpg. I think I could get close to 4 at 6 knots, especially if I run on one engine.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:59 AM   #34
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I'd suggest not shopping for a brand but go on to yacht world and search according to preferenced features. In almost 3000 surveys I have come across three boats (two trawlers, one sailboat) that I could find nothing wrong with and built to perfection. All three were homebuilt steel boats.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:42 AM   #35
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The importance of fuel economy is dependant on how much you really plan to cruise, and your budget

My boat gets 1.75NMPG If I cruise for 100NM a week, which for me sounds reasonable, (one travel day per week) then that would be approx 57 gallons a week of diesel or 247 gallons a month. At $4.00 a gallon that would be a thousand dollar a month expense.

If you could double that economy to 3.5 NMPG then it would only be around $500 a month.

Some folks might want to travel more. At 200 miles a week, or two travel days of course the numbers double.

The more miles a month you plan to cruise, and the boat you choose, can make a big difference in the affordability of cruising as a retirement lifestyle.

Adding it up, I can see why some prefer to go smaller, and more efficient.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:20 AM   #36
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N4061 wrote;

"Another option may be a capable sailboat"

To look at a sailboat one would think it not terribly efficient w all that wetted surface when at slow speeds wetted surface is king. But they are definitely more efficient than trawlers .. even FD trawlers.

Re seaworthyness they may be miles ahead of most trawlers and ahead of even FD trawlers. But a sailboat or even a motorsailer dosn't fit Bill's wish list very well at all.

And single or twin has almost nothing to do w efficiency. As long as both boats compared have the same size engine or engines ... total. The trouble is here on TF most trawler twins have twice as much power and of course are less efficient. So you can say boats w more power are less efficient but single or twin (for all practical purposes) has nothing to do w efficiency.

I know of a W40 that could be had for well under Bill's $175K. No FB.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:47 AM   #37
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Before you start deciding on what the boat should be? the best is to take your SO/Wife to boat/trawler shows and she what her likes and dislikes are, and also she gets the final final say on the boat. SO/wife look/see a boat from a different view point, layout, creature comforts, safety, storage and her feeling of being comfortable and safe. You might be surprised what she buys. I know my wife certainly surprised me!
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:50 AM   #38
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Sounds to me like a W40 or KK42 is perfect for the job. To it's credit the KK has no FB but the W40 does. And as somebody pointed out Soto's W40 is availible but I don't know his price.
Eric, I've not seen a KK 42 without a flybridge.
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:56 AM   #39
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No sail boats, don't like the fact that most of the living/entertaining/cooking,etc room is at or under waterline. We are trawler folks through and through. In fact it was funny I just read an article about the expenses of owning a sail boat and found what I felt was a good comparison. Have you ever heard a sail boat owner talk about little fuel he/she spent that year? Now ask them, "When was the last time you rigged and replaced your sails?" Lets amortize that into economy. I would much rather enjoy the pleasures of a trawler than a sail boat.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:32 PM   #40
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Way more (range) than most comparable size boats, trawlers and FDs included.

Try riding in a boat built to plane in rougher conditions , the ride may disapoint you.

Stability up on the plane does not exist at 5K.
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