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Old 01-09-2012, 03:39 PM   #21
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RE: Our "new" boat

Quote:
Woodsong wrote:
Do I have to turn in my sheriff's badge?
*Well if a sheriff*could be called*called a tin horne.

I think I recall boat that are baylineresque are fondly known as bleach bottles.

Or is that something else entirely?

SD

*
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:43 PM   #22
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RE: Our "new" boat

I think the bleach bottles are the little ones.*
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Old 01-09-2012, 03:51 PM   #23
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RE: Our "new" boat

So for fear of the Bayliner Gods striking me asunder --- Does not the picture that ksaunders posted show foam coring not even bonded to the glass. It looks pretty shoddy to me.*Cored bottoms are also high on the surveyor's list of things to really check given issues such as shown by the picture.

Does Meridian*currently make their vessels this way with cored bottoms? I thought today's majority of good construction quality yachts was solid FRP on the bottom with coring on the sides and decks. Some are* solid all the way up to the cap rail.
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Old 01-09-2012, 05:23 PM   #24
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RE: Our "new" boat

Beautiful boat, You guys can do the Loop with all the comforts of home.

Best of Luck

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Old 01-09-2012, 06:04 PM   #25
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RE: Our "new" boat

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sunchaser wrote:
Some are* solid all the way up to the cap rail.
GBs have been built this way from their change from wood to fiberglass in mid-1973.* And I believe--- but I could be wrong--- that a number of the so-called Taiwan Trawlers like CHB, etc. are built exactly*the same way.* Solid fiberglass hull all the way up.* The decks are usually a sandwich--- fiberglass-ply-fiberglass.

Jennifer--- I have always heard the term "bleach bottle" or "Clorox bottle" applied to ALL fiberglass boats in general, usually by the owners or fans of wood boats.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:19 PM   #26
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Our "new" boat

Quote:
sunchaser wrote:
So for fear of the Bayliner Gods striking me asunder --- Does not the picture that ksaunders posted show foam coring not even bonded to the glass. It looks pretty shoddy to me.*Cored bottoms are also high on the surveyor's list of things to really check given issues such as shown by the picture.

Does Meridian*currently make their vessels this way with cored bottoms? I thought today's majority of good construction quality yachts was solid FRP on the bottom with coring on the sides and decks. Some are* solid all the way up to the cap rail.
*We need to remember that the hull in the photo was smashed on a reef.

The long and the short of it is that there has never been a documented hull failure or glass-core separation*on a Bayliner Cruiser or Motoryacht. There has for a FYI*never been a blistering issue with Bayliners either.

Compare that record with the blistering problems that are well known on Uniflights, or the core issues of the early Krogens, or even the $40K bottom job I saw done on a really nice looking Defever, and the Bayliners start looking better all the time.

I would invite you to come take a look at a Bayliner someday. Actually set foot on one and look it over. You might just be suprised. Like allot of boating myths the ones about Bayliners are just pure BS.

The simple fact is that Bayliner is the largest boat manufacturer out there. That large manufacturing base let them buy in bulk. The buying power resulted in cost savings. It also made them the target of every boat sales person trying to sell a competing model at significantly higher price. This is where you'll probably find the root of most of the Bayliner bashing out there.



-- Edited by ksanders on Monday 9th of January 2012 08:28:32 PM


-- Edited by ksanders on Monday 9th of January 2012 08:30:54 PM
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:23 PM   #27
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RE: Our "new" boat

My impression of GBs: SOLID!
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:30 PM   #28
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RE: Our "new" boat

Quote:
ksanders wrote:Here's a photo of a 4788 that was wrecked. It shows the hull thickness.
*It also shows a pretty dry layup and lack of bonding to the foam core with insufficient resin to fill the grid scoring.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:42 PM   #29
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RE: Our "new" boat

Here's a picture of the damage done to a well made yacht running up on a coral reef at high speed. Notice the bonding on the foam core and the resin filling of the grid. This boat was running fast and weighed probably more than a dozen Bayliners so the force per unit of area was exponentially higher. The boat remained dry.

*
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:09 PM   #30
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RE: Our "new" boat

Quote:
RickB wrote:
Here's a picture of the damage done to a well made yacht running up on a coral reef at high speed. Notice the bonding on the foam core and the resin filling of the grid. This boat was running fast and weighed probably more than a dozen Bayliners so the force per unit of area was exponentially higher. The boat remained dry.

*
*Rick, that would be a great comparison if both boats hit the same reef, at the same place, at the same speed.

Its clear, both our bias's are coming through in this discussion.

Thanks for your input, but for now I think I'll spend some time thinking about the fun I'm going to have making a 1500 NM journey in my Bayliner 47' motoryacht*this summer. The same exact journey I made years ago in a*34' Bayliner.

This thread is about Woodsongs new boat, and a really nice boat indeed!
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:20 PM   #31
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RE: Our "new" boat

Quote:
ksanders wrote:There has for a FYI*never been a blistering issue with Bayliners either.
Not quite accurate if you are including*all Bayliner models in your statement.* Back in the 1990s a co-worker and his brother bought a new*Bayliner Trophy sportfisherman, a model with an enclosed hard-top*cabin and Alaska bulkhead.* I think it was about 25' long or so.

After a few years it developed a massive blister problem that in the end resulted in them having to have a yard dry it completely, peel the bottom, and re-glass it.* I think insurance and/or Bayliner eventually picked up part of the cost.* Apparently this was a not-uncommon problem with these boats at that time if they were kept in the water 24-7-365.

I have no idea if blistering was a problem in their larger motoryacht-type boats.
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:26 PM   #32
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RE: Our "new" boat

Quote:
ksanders wrote:
Its clear, both our bias's are coming through in this discussion.
The pictures don't show any bias, they show the difference between high quality construction and ... Bayliner construction.*

The quality construction shows proper wetting of the matt and excellent bonding of the core along with good fill of the grid that is required to achieve good structural integrity.

I'm sure you will have a blast on your boat, I am not trying to run it down but since you posted a picture that purports to represent quality construction I have no qualms in doing the same.

*
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:30 PM   #33
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RE: Our "new" boat

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My impression of GBs: SOLID!
There is a GB on the local GB charter dock**named "Mahalo Moi" right now.* I wonder if it's the same boat as in your photo?*
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:32 PM   #34
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RE: Our "new" boat

Quote:
Marin wrote:markpierce wrote:
My impression of GBs: SOLID!
There is a GB on the local GB charter dock**named "Mahalo Moi" right now.* I wonder if it's the same boat as in your photo?*

*That's Ray's boat in the picture which I last saw docked at the Vallejo Marina last Friday.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:01 PM   #35
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RE: Our "new" boat

Yep, that's my boat, "Mahalo Moi". Mine is the only "Mahalo Moi" currently documented. Perhaps Washington State registered? I hope it's not my boat! If so, Ken did a pretty good job moving it to Billingham since I just had it out on Saturday near Vallejo, California!
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:06 PM   #36
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RE: Our "new" boat

Well this is a fun thread. What exactly does one mean when they say a "solid" boat and what constitutes/comprises the features and characteristics of a "solid" boat over a non-solid boat.
Grand banks, Kadey Krogen, Defever, etc. are solid boats. Yet, how many have totally rotten decks from failed teak? How many need both fuel tanks replaced due to rotten tanks? How many need full bottom peals and $40-50k bottom jobs due to wholesale blistering? How many have lots of interior wood rot damage from leaking windows?

I ask these questions b/c they are questions I have asked myself over the recent years.

So let's compare 2 different boats. Let's say you have trawler Boat XYZ. She is a 1987. She has teak decks that are screwed in and water intrusion is throughout the core. This has caused leaks to fall onto her steel tanks (the bayliners have aluminum tanks btw), and said steel tanks are failing/rusted out and need replacing. Windows are leaking and wood rot is found on the inside, perhaps only some cosmetic, some more than cosmetic.

And then we have Boat ABC. Aluminum tanks. The same brand HVAC. Same brand water heater. Same brand stove. Same brand water pump. Different brand engines but they have a proven history of longevity and reliable service. Same electrical wiring. Same electrical panel components. Aluminum fuel tanks that are not rotten. Teak decks have not rotted out the decks. Yes, you could have some latent issues here or there from water intrusion from penetrations in the decking but not an issue if done properly and that is an issue that any boat can have...my Monk included.

So I am curious, objectively speaking, what, to you personally, constitutes a boat as being determined to be "solid." If we are talking the difference between say a blue water cruiser that is world capable and a coastal cruiser not suitable for offshore passages, ok, I can totally see that. But, if we are comparing coastal cruiser to coastal cruiser, what makes one of them solid and one them not solid?

To me, the biggest crime the bayliner motors have against them are A) The name bayliner on the side of the boat. If you put a different name on it the perception would not be there and people would look at the boat for what it is instead of what their granddad's 18' or 22' bayliner was. B) The fit and finish on the inside is a little simpler and not as detailed as some other brands. For example, I simply love our Monk. To me, it is beyond charming. I LOVE the all teak interior. The fit and finish of the woodwork and quality of the finish on that woodwork is very good IMO. It looks charming and cozy to me. No carpet, no wallpaper, etc.
The bayliner though....I will be the first to say it is a different fit and finish. Ours has lots of interior teak and a tiny bit of exterior teak (just enough IMO). But, the level of finish on the interior teak is not as deep as the finish on the woodwork of our Monk. No big deal- I can fix that easy. We have carpet instead of teak/holly sole. That is ok- it is newer carpet and looks good and I can always take out the carpet and install teak/holly sole at any time. Some of the walls are covered in a heavy wallpaper instead of all teak- well, I can live with that.

Anyway, like I said, we really like this boat and it fits our needs better than our Monk due to amount of time we spend on the water and size of our family. We aren't doing the boat loan thing and I just don't need a defever 49 even though I love, love the lines on them! We just aren't crossing oceans right now. We want to be comfortable on the water with the kids and be able to entertain more clients aboard. I have never seen reports of a structural failure of a larger bayliner motor yacht. While I loved the interior fit/finish of our Monk, the 4588 is a comfortable and in my opinion, very capable coastal cruising raised pilothouse.

From a sales perspective, 27 of the 45 bayliners, model years 1985 through 1990 sold in 2011. For the same time frame for the Defever's sized 44 through 49 feet, only 4 have sold. 8 of the 42' Kadey Krogens have sold in 2011.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:10 PM   #37
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RE: Our "new" boat

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Giggitoni wrote:
Mine is the only "Mahalo Moi" currently documented. Perhaps Washington State registered? I
I'll look again when we're up at our boat this weekend. It's possible I was thinking I saw your boat's name in Bellingham instead of here on this forum.* In any event, I'll let you know if the boat you last saw in your slip is really a hologram and your real boat is up here.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:15 PM   #38
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RE: Our "new" boat

Quote:
Woodsong wrote:
Well this is a fun thread. What exactly does one mean when they say a "solid" boa ..t
*Strong, well-crafted/built, perhaps*"over-engineered"; built for the "100-year" storm rather than the tenth.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:22 PM   #39
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RE: Our "new" boat

If that was a hologram, I'm going to order me a Fleming 55. I'll let you know how I like it!
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:28 PM   #40
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RE: Our "new" boat

Quote:
markpierce wrote:Woodsong wrote:
Well this is a fun thread. What exactly does one mean when they say a "solid" boa ..t
*Strong, well-crafted/built, perhaps*"over-engineered"; built for the "100-year" storm rather than the tenth.

*

I would say that 99.99% of the boats represented on this forum do not meet that criteria. *My Monk certainly does not even though it is robust.
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