Other than weather, why have a lower helm?

[ranger58sb]

So how does that become smart when the designer puts on a FB?

After about the third time you wrap a crab pot warp around your shaft. Especially if one of those times happens to pull the shaft out of the boat.

-Chris

 

[MurrayM]

Opinions Opinions,
But I'm glad some PO whacked the FB off Willy. Considered it a positive feature when I bought the boat. A good boat will have an excellent lower helm. But there are some that don't. The weight aloft is very objectionable IMO and can do w/o the windage too.

Think about it. If you were designing the best boat you could and someone came along and said "naw that's not best .. Lets raise the CG and put a sail up to challenge the skipper when maneurving around harbors". "And lets put the people where rolling motion is severe at times and at least maximum"

Clearly a stupid thing to do. So how does that become smart when the designer puts on a FB?

Because there is no perfect boat, just one that has the least amount of compromises for each particular owner. Lots of wiggle room in that!

 

[Bruce B]

After about the third time you wrap a crab pot warp around your shaft. Especially if one of those times happens to pull the shaft out of the boat.

-Chris

I've seen the aftermath of such an incident and it was not pretty!
The bell housing actually fractured when the shaft was yanked from the coupling...
Bruce

 

[ABfish]

Sort of apples to oranges comparison, but check out the hard-core charter boats that fish out of Oregon Inlet, NC. Ninety-five percent of them have a flybridge, and they fish in some of the roughest nearshore conditions on the east coast. Just getting out of the inlet is a white-knuckle experience on some days. The flybridge allows the captain better visibility to monitor the trolling baits, and to spot birds and other sea life. No serious fisherman fishes in marlin tournaments without a flybridge.

Would those Carolina charter boats be more stable without flybridges? Somewhat, but the trade offs in visibility are not worth the marginal increase in the stability.

If you'll watch the Wicked Tuna Outerbanks show that's currently running, you'll see a good side-by-side comparison of Northeast style, non-flybridge boats fishing with the local Carolina sportfishermen. The Carolina boats handle the seas in Oregon Inlet and the surrounding waters better than the Northeast boats, flybridge or no.

 

[Nomad Willy]

But a FB boat is an inferior boat.

It is, however a better toy.

 

[psneeld]

Well that confirms it.....

 

[Ted]

And a sub will respond more favourably to "green water" over the
bow and decks than any boat I want to be on.

Ted

 

[MurrayM]

With SWATH boats you can be stable and have a flybridge or even a tower

 

[BandB]

Mark, believe it or not, I prefer the ladder over molded in steps (the ladder is easier for the wife & me) & the "deck view can't compare with the fly bridge view!

I'm generally stairs over ladders, but not when it comes to your ladder. It's really quite nice and is better than most stairs.

 

[nowakezone]

What a great thread you all made! The responses have been excellent and very helpful. Reading through every post allowed me to say, 'yes, me too' or 'no, that's not me.' In the end, it seems the lower helm or pilothouse is a matter of preference rather than necessity.

Again, to all who posted and who might post, from me and all who read this thread, thank you very much for your contributions.

 

[caltexflanc]

But a FB boat is an inferior boat.

It is, however a better toy.

Yeah those CG life boats are really inferior. So are those new Nordhavns of the past decade or so. Ditto those bluewater sportsfishermen especially with the towers. You should go give all those guys a good lecture.

Spend some time underway in a few so they'll know you're an expert !

 

[CPseudonym]

Come on, Don! A lot of fly bridge boats have protection from the sun & weather! (Not to mention great visibility when in close quarters.)

Walt the picture with your wife at the helm says it all. Glad you two have your boating mojo firmly intact.

FTR I haven't seen a bad picture of Sandpiper yet.

 

[Codger2]

I'm generally stairs over ladders, but not when it comes to your ladder. It's really quite nice and is better than most stairs.

i share your thoughts entirely. When we found the boat we wanted that had 90% of everything we wanted, molded in stairs were missing! This concerned me at first (I'm 75) but after climbing the ladder a few times (The hand rails & hand holds were precisely placed) the worry disappeared. Another benefit of the ladder is that when in the salon, we have a much greater view out the back of the boat....no molded stairs wiping out about 30% of the view. (On most boats.) Molded in stairs are nice (IMO) but finding the boat with the most desired features was priceless!

 

[Codger2]

Clearly a stupid thing to do. So how does that become smart when the designer puts on a FB?

Eric, thanks for the very negative comment.
I don't recall ever saying that "Willy" is a stupid design & if i did, I'd keep it to myself!

 

[Codger2]

Walt the picture with your wife at the helm says it all. Glad you two have your boating mojo firmly intact.
.

Thanks, Craig! I really appreciate that comment as most owners really love their boats. There are some, however, that have never owned a fly bridge boat that have no actual knowledge as to the benefits! (The negatives are obvious.)

 

[nowakezone]

i share your thoughts entirely. When we found the boat we wanted that had 90% of everything we wanted, molded in stairs were missing! This concerned me at first (I'm 75) but after climbing the ladder a few times (The hand rails & hand holds were precisely placed) the worry disappeared. Another benefit of the ladder is that when in the salon, we have a much greater view out the back of the boat....no molded stairs wiping out about 30% of the view. (On most boats.) Molded in stairs are nice (IMO) but finding the boat with the most desired features was priceless!

Another excellent post as we get closer to our next boat and one which I'll keep in mind. This month I'll turn 60, and while I stay in pretty good shape I do get concerned about the active boating window closing. That you're 75 is very encouraging. Your ladder has a better angle than most and definitely better tread size. As mentioned above the handrails are nice!

 

[BandB]

What a great thread you all made! The responses have been excellent and very helpful. Reading through every post allowed me to say, 'yes, me too' or 'no, that's not me.' In the end, it seems the lower helm or pilothouse is a matter of preference rather than necessity.

Again, to all who posted and who might post, from me and all who read this thread, thank you very much for your contributions.

There's a factor you may be overlooking as your original post said "other than weather." Well we can't exclude weather. In upper helms you have two choices-either an open bridge or hard top and enclosed bridge, whether walls or canvas enclosure. Completely open brings the weather into play and isn't very good for bad weather conditions or even moderate cold. That is what chases us inside. Or if you got the enclosed route, there are issues. First, full enclosure is a bit contrary to the openness and pleasure of a bridge. However, the bigger issue is air draft. For coastal cruising not an issue although does mean waiting for some bridge openings. If a Loop is in your plans then it becomes a major issue as 19'1" is the limit. Some hard tops clear and some don't. Even for those that do, they often put electronics on the top and they won't clear.

Erie Canal in May would be a great example. It was too cold to enjoy an open bridge. Yet, air draft is a big issue in the 20-22' range depending on water levels. We do have a hard top with full enclosure. However, we couldn't do it with the standard hard top and most would not want to go through what we did which required a custom hard top and enclosure and a major modification to the arch and mast so the electronics and mast could be lowered. 19'1" becomes a big challenge on a hard top fly bridge boat.

 

[GT6]

But a FB boat is an inferior boat.

It is, however a better toy.

Wow! And to think I almost bought an obviously inferior boat with a dangerous flybridge... :lol:

 

[dhays]

Someone made the point earlier that the utility of a FB may depend on what type of lower helm you have, one incorporated into the saloon, or a dedicated PH. In many ways a raised PH is much like an enclosed FB. I have a raised PH, so maybe that is why I have less use for my FB. Also it may be why I have no interest in enclosing my FB. All it would do in my case would be to creat a second, and inferior, weather proof helm station. However, each of our boats are a little different with advantages and disadvantages. In other boats, an enclosed FB may make a lot of sense.

 

[hmason]

We have a nicely angled ladder up to a huge fly bridge. We climb that ladder at least 10 times a day. You need to look at it as exercise. The fly bridge is a joy, the exercise is priceless. I'm 74 and climbing that ladder is easy. I'm still looking for that next bigger boat.

My good buddy is still living aboard with his wife and climbing to the fly bridge every day. BTW, he's 87. If you want to stay in shape this is one helpful way. The view from the top is amazing.

Mod Note: Photo flipped as a free public service to the shoeless 74 yr old man! FlyWright was here!!

 

[hmason]

Doesn't seem to matter how I try to post a picture, it's always sideways.

 

[CPseudonym]

It's Magic

 

[hmason]

Wow, lol, thanks.

 

[nowakezone]

There's a factor you may be overlooking as your original post said "other than weather." Well we can't exclude weather. In upper helms you have two choices-either an open bridge or hard top and enclosed bridge, whether walls or canvas enclosure. Completely open brings the weather into play and isn't very good for bad weather conditions or even moderate cold. That is what chases us inside. Or if you got the enclosed route, there are issues. First, full enclosure is a bit contrary to the openness and pleasure of a bridge. However, the bigger issue is air draft. For coastal cruising not an issue although does mean waiting for some bridge openings. If a Loop is in your plans then it becomes a major issue as 19'1" is the limit. Some hard tops clear and some don't. Even for those that do, they often put electronics on the top and they won't clear.

Erie Canal in May would be a great example. It was too cold to enjoy an open bridge. Yet, air draft is a big issue in the 20-22' range depending on water levels. We do have a hard top with full enclosure. However, we couldn't do it with the standard hard top and most would not want to go through what we did which required a custom hard top and enclosure and a major modification to the arch and mast so the electronics and mast could be lowered. 19'1" becomes a big challenge on a hard top fly bridge boat.

How can you not love the thoroughness of a BandB reply?

No loop in the picture for us. I live in the midwest, have traveled to all the regions the loop covers, boated the length of the Ohio from Pittsburgh to Louisville and back. Spent enough time on Lake Erie and Put-in-Bay as a kid, and Lake *ichigan as an adult. I'm sure it's a great trip or there wouldn't be so many loopers. Me, I've seen enough riverbanks.

As you know BandB, but others don't, we are leaning towards leaving sw florida for the much more active fort lauderdale area. Our trips will consist entirely of warmer weather whether it's running up the east coast in the summer or over to the Bahamas when the winds are with the Gulfstream or down to the Keys.

That's why I said weather is an obvious factor so dismiss it. I wanted to hear from boaters in all regions versus just south and sw florida boaters. PNW boaters...NE boaters... all need the lower helm or enclosed FB if they want to extend their seasons. If the occasional forward isinglass has to go up to offset a cold chill in the morning, so be it.

Besides, at the helm wearing a cozy sweatshirt on a chilly morning, fresh-brewed coffee in hand, baitballs busting the surface all around, slow cruising at 8kts while the sun climbs above the horizon... that's all good! Of course, I'm talking south florida chilly. Like low 60's. For those colder mornings... we'll wait. No hurries.

Besides aging, which Codger allayed my fears about, my only other concern with a FB is pitch and roll. I confess, I am Capt. Queasy. Pitch not so much, but roll... holy moly nothing ruins a day on the water like motion-sickness. So I prefer to quarter beam seas even though it makes a trip significantly longer. And, generous amounts of Bonine the night before and ginger day of. The wristbands...meh!

 

[CPseudonym]

Wow, lol, thanks.

No worries. Beautiful boat

 

[nowakezone]

We have a nicely angled ladder up to a huge fly bridge. We climb that ladder at least 10 times a day. You need to look at it as exercise. The fly bridge is a joy, the exercise is priceless. I'm 74 and climbing that ladder is easy. I'm still looking for that next bigger boat.

My good buddy is still living aboard with his wife and climbing to the fly bridge every day. BTW, he's 87. If you want to stay in shape this is one helpful way. The view from the top is amazing.

This is the second time in this thread the subject of age has come up and both times it has really helped me out. I'm going on 60, and I don't know many boaters much older than I am. Makes me think the window is closing. Among other things, I do 60-80 leg presses every day for just this reason. Posts like yours do me a lot of good.

 

[CPseudonym]

This forum has taught me age is just a number. There was a dude here a while back that sold his 60' sailboat and bought a Diesel Duck I think because he was getting to old to climb the mast at 90.

 

[hmason]

Nowake, when you have a trawler you will meet lots of folks your age and considerably older. Boaters tend to be a healthy lot by and large. I don't know if it's the lifestyle or if boating attracts healthy people. You'll be in good company either way.

Sorry for the thread drift. Live your dream young man!

 

[hmason]

CP,
There's a fellow living aboard his beautiful 60 foot plus yacht at our marina in FL during the winter. He doesn't take the boat out much anymore but he's at the bar every night charming the ladies. Not all bad for 93.

 

[BandB]

Wifey B: No trip between Ohio and FL, nowakezone?

I freaking love my inferior flybridge. Oh, I can stand on top and look down on those who don't have flybridges. Don't worry. I have good balance. Long ago I accepted if it wasn't Nomad Willy's, man of many boats and anchors, boat then it was inferior. I think every boat here is beeeuuuuutiful.

Nowake.....there are lots of old guys here.....this is like areas of South Florida, you're under the average probably. Move to Hallandale and if you're 80, they'll call you kiddo.

Speaking of Hallandale, follow the link and click on the play button for Wasting Away in Hallandale.

https://neilrogers.org/wasting-away-good-ole-hallandale/