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Old 03-16-2012, 04:09 PM   #21
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

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2bucks wrote:
I have a friend that I met at work. We seem to talk about dozens of subjects when we get together, not just work things which is where we met.

I was at the grocery store and they sell magazines. You don't eat magazines, you don't grow magazines, why would they sell something totally unrelated to groceries at the grocery store?

I was at the gas station and they sell chips and sodas. Why? It's a gas station not a chips and soda station.

I was on a boating forum and we had a section we could talk about cars, guns, and other topics other than boats.

Ken


With all respect, I suspect you and your friend don't deliberately look for the most volatile, partisan subjects you can find and aggressively throw them in each others faces. I've seen what passes for ciivilized discourse on OTDE, and many of the threads start off as an attack on "the other side's" belief system. Most of us wouldn't have a lot of friends if we went off on people or their belief systems in person, but the semi-anonymity the Internet turns otherwise respectful people into ranters.

The standard answer (again) is just don't go there if you don't like it. Now that I know what it's like, I'll take that advice.

And I believe they're now called "convenience stores.". : )
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:27 PM   #22
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

I suspect that most of us on this forum got into boating long before Al Gore invented the internet. I got all my pilot ratings--- private, commercial, instrument, flight instructor, seaplane-- long before Al figured out how to make computers talk to each other. While the internet and this forum can be very useful aids in learning techniques, finding solutions to problems, finding parts, materials, and services, learning which equipment might best suit one's needs and so on, neither one of them is, in my view, essential or even necessary for having a safe, enjoyable, and adventurous experience with a boat.

If this forum, or the internet itself for that matter, went away tomorrow I daresay that outside of the social interaction that would be lost it would not make a dent in the boating experience of just about everyone here. Certainly not to the people who have been boating for many years. Some might miss the camaraderie and the opportunity to communicate with like-minded people they've "met" on the forum, but outside of that I suspect that virtually none of us would change what we do with and what we get out of our boats.

I never subscribed to Passagemaker magazine nor have I ever looked at their forum. But from comments I've read here over the years I gather the PMM forum is less than easy to use and is not all that great anyway. So a lot of people have apparently stopped using it. And my guess is that this has had no impact whatsoever on their boating.

The same can happen here. While OTDE discussions have little or nothing to do with boating, they do provide a place for forum members who are interested in doing so to develop relationships with other members. This in turn, I think, leads to more participation in the boating "buckets." People are more inclined to talk about things with people they know rather than people they don't know. Even if all they know about a person is what they read on the pages of an internet forum.

While I don't care if OTDE stays, goes, or becomes heavily moderated with all sorts of "rude" filters applied, I agree with Ken that if OTDE goes the forum will lose some of its "one stop for everything" user appeal. And over time I think this will lead to decreased participation in the boating discussions.

We're not in elementary school here. By the time we reach the level of life experience most of us here have, we're not going to change. We are what we are. Just as the people we deal with everyday at work or in retirement are what they are. Some are great, some are okay, some are neither here nor there, and some are a*sholes. So you deal with it however you yourself think is appropriate. If we can't handle what's dished out, we're all free to leave, either the discussion, OTDE, or the whole forum. But I think it's up to each individual to make that choice for themselves.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:46 PM   #23
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

If nothing else, OTDE provides an opportunity to learn more about the individual.* Makes one feel he is dealing with a "whole" person when interacting on other subforums.
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Old 03-17-2012, 12:55 PM   #24
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

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angus99 wrote:2bucks wrote:
I have a friend that I met at work. We seem to talk about dozens of subjects when we get together, not just work things which is where we met.

I was at the grocery store and they sell magazines. You don't eat magazines, you don't grow magazines, why would they sell something totally unrelated to groceries at the grocery store?

I was at the gas station and they sell chips and sodas. Why? It's a gas station not a chips and soda station.

I was on a boating forum and we had a section we could talk about cars, guns, and other topics other than boats.

Ken
*

With all respect, I suspect you and your friend don't deliberately look for the most volatile, partisan subjects you can find and aggressively throw them in each others faces. I've seen what passes for ciivilized discourse on OTDE, and many of the threads start off as an attack on "the other side's" belief system. Most of us wouldn't have a lot of friends if we went off on people or their belief systems in person, but the semi-anonymity the Internet turns otherwise respectful people into ranters. The standard answer (again) is just don't go there if you don't like it. Now that I know what it's like, I'll take that advice. And I believe they're now called "convenience stores.". : )

*I don't think I agree Angus. I think my friends and I each know the others hot buttons and push them now and again just for fun. I don't think I'm alone in that either, or there wouldn't be the "remember when you did this stupid thing" stories out there. Don't those come up when you talk to your friends?

Convenience? I'll bet half the people that work there can't spell convenience. At least not the same way two times out of three. ;-)

Ken

*
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:21 PM   #25
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

Quote:
Art wrote:Adelaide wrote:Question, does the OTDE banter/grudges ever spill over to other boating related threads?Not that I noticed.* OTDE and rest of Forum sections seemed completely separated regarding discussion/threads.* As it should be!* Actually, before OTDE was closed I believe even the acronym OTDE was seldom if ever mentioned in other Forum sections.
Voting %ages on OTDE are getting even more interesting!
Sorry Art, I don't agree.* There are over tones that creep into the rest of the Forum.* That is one of*my biggest problems with it aside from the arrogance that some have thinking their writing skills and use of grammar is superior to most thus they are as well.

Just reread some of these very posts in this section.
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:24 PM   #26
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

At this date and time, Id just like to mention!
*
YES Unmonitored - - > 50%
*
YES Monitored - - > 26%
*
NO Not At All - - > 24%
*
With 50 voters on OTDE so far... Once again, YES (in general) by a landslide; 76% to be exact!!
*
This is fun No matter what any contributors says or thinks.* Talk about a mini social experiment exclusively with boaters no less.*
*
You know that we boaters are a class by ourselves.* And, in my opinion a good class for sure.* Pretty darn eclectic with a broad range of experiences!!*
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:26 AM   #27
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

Votes may not matter.

Quote from the Rules on Cruiserforum, which from what has been mentioned, are soon to be the rules here:

Be Courteous!
We aim to ensure that the forum is an enjoyable place that you want to visit time and time again. Our philosophy is that we want Cruisers Forum to be an online reflection of the boating community. Treat each other with respect just as you would on the water.

* Our rules extend to all sections of the website including private messaging.
* Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Excessive sarcasm, belligerence, insults, profanity, anger, offensive comments about race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and national origin, are not acceptable.
* Do not post libelous remarks or directly misleading information.
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* Be mindful of yourself and others. This forum is not a democracy; it is privately owned and we make the rules. If rules are violated we retain the right at our discretion to remove, edit or delete posts and if necessary ban or remove members. Any abuse toward our staff may/will result in immediate suspension of your account.
* Public discussion about moderation or moderator decisions is not allowed. If a moderator deletes or edits one of your posts and you disagree with the action, contact the moderator concerned. Do not repost deleted material.
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* Trolling and cyberstalking are NOT allowed and are grounds for account restriction or banishment. Trolling on this board includes posting controversial and often irrelevant or off-topic messages with the intention of (or anticipated result of) baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal, harmonious on-topic discussion, especially when a pattern of such posting is apparent.
* Discussions about politics, weaponry and religion are permitted only in association with the topic of this forum and will be closed or removed if they become disruptive.
* We take the "be nice" rule VERY seriously! We do not tolerate ANY rudeness.** End Quote* Bold type face added by me.

*

I don't have any problem with most of these rules, except for the editing to change the text of a post,* but, its 'their way or the highway', and no public discussion of their decisions will be allowed.

In addition, I am assuming we can expect lots of advertising on the pages.* Cruisers Forum looks a lot like TV, with almost as much advertising as content.
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:43 AM   #28
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

Quote:
Larry H wrote:
Votes may not matter.

I don't have any problem with most of these rules, except for the editing to change the text of a post,* but, its 'their way or the highway', and no public discussion of their decisions will be allowed.

In addition, I am assuming we can expect lots of advertising on the pages.* Cruisers Forum looks a lot like TV, with almost as much advertising as content.
We'll see how this*turns out.* If, through new rules and too much advertising*this forum*simply begins to*add to the "Dumming of America"... Many*"old salts" will simply say Bye, Bye!* Me included!!* Cheers, Art **
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:42 AM   #29
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

Many "old salts" will simply say Bye, Bye! Me included!!


And the next stop is??

On a similar forum years ago I was dunned to appoligise " for stating that I avoid JABSCO products !!

Once the censorship starts the slope gets pretty slippery.
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:58 AM   #30
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

I didn't vote because I generally never go there. I have found that OTDE on here like many other forums I go on, including sailing and woodworking, usually have a negative impact on some. The political discussions sometimes turn into swapping insults and then carrying over the negative feelings onto the other discussion boards. Todays politics are no longer discussions, they are hate sessions at all levels in our society including the media and all levels of our government.
As for closing down that forum, I wasn't aware that they did. Do they have the right to do that? Yes. It's their site, they should have the right to do what they want.
Personally, I come on here to talk about boats and not to vent. Others are different.
Like I said, it does not affect me either way.
Did the closing of that discussion group cause less participation here? I dont know. I don't participate as much as I used to and thats because most if not all of my questions have been answered and I dont have any trawler experience to offer much advise. I still lurk in the background and participate some.
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:27 AM   #31
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

Quote:
FF wrote:
Many "old salts" will simply say Bye, Bye! Me included!!


And the next stop is??

On a similar forum years ago I was dunned to appoligise " for stating that I avoid JABSCO products !!

Once the censorship starts the slope gets pretty slippery.
Fred - I understand.**

Forums are just a game of communication to/from/with others of whom without internet we'd probably*never met.* I use forums as respite from my incessant*business doings/obligations/addiction*and numerous contract writings as well as my IP product developments.* I just completed one contract at 4:30 - 6 AM this morn and am now playing with this relaxing forum banter. **

I really could care less if any forum stays open or pleasing to me.* Plenty of others things to do and forums to chose from, if I feel so inclined.* That said, this forum has afforded me boat-worthy communication with mariners as well as opportunity to interact/debate on pertinent, timely issues via OTDE, with some pretty darn intelligent folks... others not so much so, IMHO lmao!!*

Without OTDE and therefore OPEN availability to converse with some of the crusty souls who frequented that forum section I will probably seldom visit.* Noooo Big Deal!!* I only began this thread to see what might occur and in process to learn what the new owners have planned... as well as to give the owners a bit o good ol insight as to how this forums contributors truly feel about OTDE.* Pole results speak for themselves.* Change is the only constant!
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:06 PM   #32
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

If any of you early adopters remember, JB started this forum after excessive moderation over on T&T. That, and the ability to post pictures brought it to it's current state. The length and participation of this thread proves that OTDE will always be here. If you don't put it in it's own spot, it will just spill over into the other areas. I think OTDE was one of the strengths of this forum. But like any free market item, the new owners are free to change it any way they want, and the users are free to go anywhere they like.
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:28 PM   #33
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

Quote:
Keith wrote:
If any of you early adopters remember, JB started this forum after excessive moderation over on T&T. That, and the ability to post pictures brought it to it's current state. The length and participation of this thread proves that OTDE will always be here. If you don't put it in it's own spot, it will just spill over into the other areas. I think OTDE was one of the strengths of this forum. But like any free market item, the new owners are free to change it any way they want, and the users are free to go anywhere they like.
Keith, Well Put!*

1,060 visits so far...
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:13 PM   #34
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OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

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2bucks wrote:
* NO SPAM! Our user base is not a resource to be "mined" by individuals, groups, or businesses, for profit or not for profit. Participants may not post affiliate links or links to direct others to any pages at their own commercial website or website in which they have a commercial interest. Exception to this may be found in Signature Standards, Marine-Related Commercial Posting, Sponsoring Vendors and Commercial Members (see below).


I'm pretty sure many of us on here found this site by this exact item that it looks like is being banned. I saw Bakers ad about starting a new site on Trawlers and Trawlering site. In fact I saw it a number of times. And now he's sold the site which means it is commercial. How times change...

Ken
*You're skating on thin ice amigo! *

*

PS...I posted on T&T about this site exactly once. *There may have been many other discussions about it but I had nothing to do with that. *I have been back to that list just that one time.

*


-- Edited by Baker on Sunday 18th of March 2012 09:17:24 PM
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:54 AM   #35
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

I believe that T&T mailing list was sold to an advertisement "magazine" that was promotion for only one brand of TT.

Similar to the trashing/advertising that went on with Passagemaker the book after it was sold.

Circumnavigator , or something like that was the name , and the prohibition against calling stuff that is totally unsuitable for cruising was needed to not hack off the advertising base.

Today with the market so taken over by only a few brands Tethford and Dometic come to mind,my guess is Practical Sailor will be under attack. next.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:54 AM   #36
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OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

Interesting stats re this thread, to date; 7:55 AM PST, 3/19/12
*
Of 1,192 visits - - > Only 57 votes!*
*
36 total replies (posts)
*
1.***** Either those that voted are visiting some 20 times each... maybe, but doubtful??
2.***** Many visiting forum participants are simply not interested enough to vote...*could be.
3.***** Most visitors simply not clear what OTDE actually represents from its history...*could be.
4.***** Visitors not sure how they think OTDE should be handled, by moderators etc...*maybe.
5.***** Many visitors are not forum participants at all... fairly likely.
*
I imagine owners and moderators have access to stat answers re this thread.
*
Poll stats speak for themselves!



-- Edited by Art on Monday 19th of March 2012 08:55:50 AM


-- Edited by Art on Monday 19th of March 2012 08:57:58 AM
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:06 AM   #37
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

I would imagine that visitors that have not registered are unable to vote....that is likely the bulk of your "views". PS, I haven't voted. My personal opinion is to have OTDE like it always was. I never went in there unless somebody dragged me in there to clean something up....which was VERY rare.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:13 AM   #38
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

Quote:
Art wrote:1.***** Either those that voted are visiting some 20 times each... maybe, but doubtful??
*I voted and have been here every time there is a new post to read. It could have easily been 20 times by now. I suspect #1 is the most likely reason for the high views and low votes.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:18 AM   #39
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

TY for input John...* below is quote from you with my inserts in CAPS
*
I would imagine that visitors that have not registered are unable to vote....that is likely the bulk of your "views". MY FEELING ALSO - - - > BUT, TOMS RECENT INPUT ON VISITS HOLDS WEIGHT TOO
*

*PS, I haven't voted. My personal opinion is to have OTDE like it always was. GREAT TO HEAR! I never went in there unless somebody dragged me in there to clean something up....which was VERY rare. ALSO GREAT TO HEAR!!
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:30 AM   #40
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RE: OTDE - Has... err, Had its place!

Quote:
Art wrote:*PS, *I never went in there unless somebody dragged me in there to clean something up....which was VERY rare. ALSO GREAT TO HEAR!!
*Hmmm. *That's a good point, Art. *I guess I was dragged into OTDE, it would have to be kicking and screaming. *Once I was there, I'd probably kick and scream a bit. *Never thought of that.
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